Trump Healthcare Vote Withdrawn

originally posted by: Snarl
This is a good thing. The government needs to be kept out of our healthcare. Americans didn't want the words "or replaced" anywhere in anything anyone had to say.

ObamaCare repealed ... or Trump painted with the same brush as Paul Ryan.

It should go to the states.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
The best alternative would be to repeal the whole damn thing and let the free market work.

But since we have spineless GOP legislators, all they wanted to do was slap a coat of paint on the ACA.

I support the Freedom Caucus standing firm. We need a better legislation. Replacing Ryan with an actual conservative would be good too.

Because the free market has worked so well in the past? The only people it has worked for is congress, who is sucking up the lobbying dollars from the for profit medical industry.

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: gortex

The only way to make meaningful improvement to the ACA is to begin morphing it into a not-for-profit "single-payer, universal healthcare system" similar to every other industrialized nation.

Every other industrialized nation doesn't have a Constitution that limits the power of their central governments from meddling in the lives of its citizens.

Who pays for single-payer? About 50% of Americans (mostly liberals) don't pay taxes. If you mandate the productive 50% pay for the healthcare of the non-taxpayers out there, you will see a flight of wealth like this country has never seen. i know that I would retire YESTERDAY rather than pay for that.

And I am a very fit and very healthy 53...

The USA pays about 18% of its GDP in taxes. Most single-payer industrialized nations (i.e., Canada) pay almost 40% of their GDP in taxes. Because such a huge segment of our population pays no taxes at all, that means those of us who do would pay exponentially more than we do now.

The ONLY WAY to have a single-payer system in this country that wouldn't send trillions of dollars in capital scurrying for the exits would be if EVERYONE paid taxes. There would have to be no more EITC, no more AGI, it would all have to be flat rates based upon income.

Otherwise it's just wealth confiscation and that is the one thing our Founding Fathers hated the most.

a reply to: jellyrev

Ryan put Trump in a pickle.

Trump had no choice.

Why? Because he had lied about his own wonderful health care plan during the campaign and after his election? Because he had no such plan?
www.politico.com...

a reply to: carewemust

It took two years and 200 Republican amendments plus RomneyCare as a framework, plus listening and working with hospitals and care providers, plus a seven hour bi-partisan summit to craft the ACA.

Republicans who "didn't know" what was in the bill were simply either not paying attention or lying.

It is a complex problem requiring a complex approach. The Republicans thought they could repeal/replace it by slaping together some talking points, making a few adjustments and serving it up. They failed. This was the crappiest health care law I've ever seen!

The people who want to repeal everything and go back to the good old days might balk at the rules insurance companies had in place to make their profits and products.

It is impossible to go back without doing serious harm to hospital networks and rural clinics, without massive layoffs of hospital staff who were hired to care for people using healthcare through the ACA (not just the individual market but the people who now have insurance through their work where it was not previously mandated.)

Also, the GOP in an act of sabotage, caused premiums to rise by refusing to fund the risk management at recommended levels, offering only 12% to stabilize the markets. Then they said "look companies are leaving! Premiums are rising!! It's a disaster!!!" with full-throated partisan pronouncements.

The best way forward is to fix the problems in the ACA. First, bring premiums down and encourage companies to participate in the marketplace by fully funding the risk management assessment, thus stabilizing all the markets as a foundation to build from.

Second, re-offer Medicaid Expansion after Rep and Dem states have demonstrated the benefits of doing so. Add incentives across the board if need be to get governors on board.

Third, incentivize the young, non-Medicaid expansion qualifying and healthy- a carrot may work better than a stick for compliance with the mandate. Incentivize health rather than punish illness, maybe? ??? Tax break anyone???

Just some ideas. I've thought about this a lot.

For myself, I'm relived for the moment.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I hope Trump does the obvious. The Dems wanted to keep Obamacare and apparently others did also. So...let it fail. Let it crash burn and don't lift a finger. Then, when it is gone...or worse...sit back and laugh.

You are so proud to be an American, that you are willing to let others get sick and die? People with no compassion truly amaze me, how miserable your life must be.

a reply to: Flatfish

The only way to make meaningful improvement to the ACA is to begin morphing it into a not-for-profit "single-payer, universal healthcare system" similar to every other industrialized nation.

That's what I've been saying for years.

Eventually, we will get there, but not until people stop listening to propaganda and scare so easily at the idea of a smidge of socialism.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Can't do that or 3% of Americans would not have health coverage due to serious chronic medical conditions. If Govt set up a Medicare buy-in for them, and then abolished ObamaCare, all would be free-market rosy.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Snarl
This is a good thing. The government needs to be kept out of our healthcare. Americans didn't want the words "or replaced" anywhere in anything anyone had to say.

ObamaCare repealed ... or Trump painted with the same brush as Paul Ryan.

It should go to the states.

I strongly believe the insurance industry should be outlawed. Insurance makes the cost of everything go up.

a reply to: introvert

Long term, yes. Short term, there are some fixes.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
The best alternative would be to repeal the whole damn thing and let the free market work.

But since we have spineless GOP legislators, all they wanted to do was slap a coat of paint on the ACA.

I support the Freedom Caucus standing firm. We need a better legislation. Replacing Ryan with an actual conservative would be good too.

There is no such thing as a free market when it comes to health care and there never will be.

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.

If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.

a reply to: SBMcG

Then why hasn't all the wealth fled from the worlds industrialized nations that actually do have universal healthcare?

Is Canada, the U.K., Sweden, France, etc., etc., broke?

While we may pay 18% next to their 40%, we are paying the difference and more for our healthcare.

That 40% includes unlimited healthcare for every citizen in their countries. EVERY CITIZEN!

And.....it goes without saying that your assertion that democratic/liberals, and/or progressives don't pay taxes is total B.S..

If you want to have any meaningful debate about a healthcare fix for America, you're gonna have to begin by being realistic.

This is the same problem we're having in D.C..

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: introvert

Long term, yes. Short term, there are some fixes.

Fixes, I agree with for the short term. There are ways to make the ACA better, but we should also look at the long term.

Having a UHC system takes off a potential 30%-40% of the cost of healthcare right from the start.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.

If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.

So would I.

originally posted by: Flatfish
While we may pay 18% next to their 40%, we are paying the difference and more for our healthcare.

That 40% includes unlimited healthcare for every citizen in their countries. EVERY CITIZEN!

Not but a few years ago it was only a mere 30%.

Get it now? When it's mandated ... they can take anything they want out of your pocket. And, you will pay.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.

If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.

So would I.

I would too, but I get my care from the VA, so I am used to the system. I get excellent care, see them a couple of times a year, and rarely receive a bill.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I hope Trump does the obvious. The Dems wanted to keep Obamacare and apparently others did also. So...let it fail. Let it crash burn and don't lift a finger. Then, when it is gone...or worse...sit back and laugh.

Party before country, amirite?!?

It's always nice when somebody openly admits to being part of the problem.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.

If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.

So would I.

I would too, but I get my care from the VA, so I am used to the system. I get excellent care, see them a couple of times a year, and rarely receive a bill.

Thank you for your service.

a reply to: seeker1963

Are you sure about that or did you prematurely pick up your pom poms? Koch Brothers’ group vows millions to Republicans who vote against health care bill I actually for once agree with the Koch's!

The sad point lost on this is that big money is still controlling our political process and not We The People.

I want Medicare for all but this mega influence big money has on us is sickening.