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Trump Healthcare Vote Withdrawn

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posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: SBMcG

Then why hasn't all the wealth fled from the worlds industrialized nations that actually do have universal healthcare?

Is Canada, the U.K., Sweden, France, etc., etc., broke?

While we may pay 18% next to their 40%, we are paying the difference and more for our healthcare.

That 40% includes unlimited healthcare for every citizen in their countries. EVERY CITIZEN!

And.....it goes without saying that your assertion that democratic/liberals, and/or progressives don't pay taxes is total B.S..

If you want to have any meaningful debate about a healthcare fix for America, you're gonna have to begin by being realistic.

This is the same problem we're having in D.C..


First of all, you missed (ignored) the part about the US having a Constitution that limits the power of government.

The wealth stays out of those other nations like the plague. Their standards of living are far lower than ours. Half of my family lives in the UK -- England and Ireland. I'm over there all the time. It takes them twice as long to be able to afford a home or car or any other big ticket item as it does here. Why? Because they are massively taxed.

Canada benefited from the Hong Kong handover in 1999 that created trillions in RE wealth, but the same basic dynamic is in play there.

I am spot on with my economics here. I have studied this for years. You will have a massive economic collapse that will make the Obama Obamacare malaise look like a boom.

I'm simply never going to pay extra taxes to subsidize the unproductive and there are millions of me out there.

Healthcare is not a right granted by the Constitution. If you want others to pay for your healthcare, move to a socialist country.

Again, if I found out tomorrow that my taxes were going to triple to pay for a single payer system I would cash out and quit. I have talked to a multitude of business owners and entrepreneurs over the years who have told me the same thing.

That's why the Left in this country never holds power for long. They are always exposed as the thieves they are and summarily voted out of office.

America is not Cuba. We're not hardwired to be communists. That's why "liberals" are always a distinct political minority.
edit on 24-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Obama has no legacy other than failure.

edit on 24-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Bill Clinton's wife lost the popular vote.




posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.


If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.


So would I.


I would too, but I get my care from the VA, so I am used to the system. I get excellent care, see them a couple of times a year, and rarely receive a bill.


Thank you for your service.


You are welcome, my service was a long time ago, 80's, but the government has kept their promise. 7 years active, never left the states.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: AboveBoard

Also, the GOP in an act of sabotage, caused premiums to rise by refusing to fund the risk management at recommended levels, offering only 12% to stabilize the markets. Then they said "look companies are leaving! Premiums are rising!! It's a disaster!!!" with full-throated partisan pronouncements.


Exactly!!!! They don't want to discuss the actual cause for the companies leaving, which is the fact that they cut off funding.

Also, they like to talk about how far off the CBO projections were with respect to how many people would be covered by the ACA, while never saying a word about the 20 or so republican controlled states where they refused to accept the Medicaid expansion provisions of the ACA that denied coverage to millions. Go figure!



originally posted by:
AboveBoard

The best way forward is to fix the problems in the ACA. First, bring premiums down and encourage companies to participate in the marketplace by fully funding the risk management assessment, thus stabilizing all the markets as a foundation to build from.

Second, re-offer Medicaid Expansion after Rep and Dem states have demonstrated the benefits of doing so. Add incentives across the board if need be to get governors on board.

Third, incentivize the young, non-Medicaid expansion qualifying and healthy- a carrot may work better than a stick for compliance with the mandate. Incentivize health rather than punish illness, maybe? ??? Tax break anyone???

Just some ideas. I've thought about this a lot.

For myself, I'm relived for the moment.



And unfortunately, those ideas are probably about as close to improvement as we're gonna be able to get the republicans to even consider at this point in time. And even that is more than likely just wishful thinking.

While they are improvements, they do not eliminate the for-profit aspect of healthcare insurance coverage where profit is a consideration when medical procedures are approved or denied.

The long term fix must be not-for-profit and the sooner we get there, the better it is for everyone.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG




Healthcare is not a right granted by the Constitution.

What rights are granted by the Constitution?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: SBMcG

Then why hasn't all the wealth fled from the worlds industrialized nations that actually do have universal healthcare?

Is Canada, the U.K., Sweden, France, etc., etc., broke?

While we may pay 18% next to their 40%, we are paying the difference and more for our healthcare.

That 40% includes unlimited healthcare for every citizen in their countries. EVERY CITIZEN!

And.....it goes without saying that your assertion that democratic/liberals, and/or progressives don't pay taxes is total B.S..

If you want to have any meaningful debate about a healthcare fix for America, you're gonna have to begin by being realistic.

This is the same problem we're having in D.C..


First of all, you missed (ignored) the part about the US having a Constitution that limits the power of government.

The wealth stays out of those other nations like the plague. Their standards of living are far lower than ours. Half of my family lives in the UK -- England and Ireland. I'm over there all the time. It takes them twice as long to be able to afford a home or car or any other big ticket item as it does here. Why? Because they are massively taxed.

Canada benefited from the Hong Kong handover in 1999 that created trillions in RE wealth, but the same basic dynamic is in play there.

I am spot on with my economics here. I have studied this for years. You will have a massive economic collapse that will make the Obama Obamacare malaise look like a boom.

I'm simply never going to pay extra taxes to subsidize the unproductive and their are millions of me out there.

Healthcare is not a right granted by the Constitution. If you want other to pay for your healthcare, move to a socialist country.

Again, if I found out tomorrow that my taxes were going to triple to pay for a single payer system I would cash out and quit. I have talked to a multitude of business owners and entrepreneurs over the years who have told me the same thing.

That's why the Left in this country never holds power for long. They are always exposed as the thieves they are and summarily voted out of office.

America is not Cuba. We're not hardwired to be communists. That's why "liberals" are always a distinct political minority.


So you are one that are willing to let people get sick and die, see my previous comments. Cash out and quit, who really cares, you are one that gets on and spouts crap about how bad you have it, I have one of my clients writing a 1 mil + check to the IRS tomorrow.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.


If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.


So would I.


I would too, but I get my care from the VA, so I am used to the system. I get excellent care, see them a couple of times a year, and rarely receive a bill.


Thank you for your service.


You are welcome, my service was a long time ago, 80's, but the government has kept their promise. 7 years active, never left the states.


I don't care. You served and I thank you for that. It is also my pleasure to pay the taxes that allows our government to keep the promises they make to our service members. Though, I fear the government fails them from time to time.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: SBMcG




Healthcare is not a right granted by the Constitution.

What rights are granted by the Constitution?


You're kidding me, right?

Are you not familiar with the Bill of Rights?

Constitutional Rights

Anyone who has to ask that question is immediately suspect to me.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: SBMcG

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: SBMcG




Healthcare is not a right granted by the Constitution.

What rights are granted by the Constitution?


You're kidding me, right?

Are you not familiar with the Bill of Rights?

Constitutional Rights

Anyone who has to ask that question is immediately suspect to me.


Something tells me you may have just stepped in to a trap.

I have a rough idea where Phage may be taking this.

We shall see.


+1 more 
posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I hope Trump does the obvious. The Dems wanted to keep Obamacare and apparently others did also. So...let it fail. Let it crash burn and don't lift a finger. Then, when it is gone...or worse...sit back and laugh.


You are so proud to be an American, that you are willing to let others get sick and die? People with no compassion truly amaze me.


Not only that, some claim to be church goers. Slightly contradictory huh?

Anyhoo. Here is the formula to solve this crap:
Remove the problem from being about tax, and point the finger at pharma and insurance companies that have caused this entire US debacle.

Step 1
-Legislate pharma, capping their markup on costs, force them to apply for approval on sale cap pricing at time of FDA approval. And/OR apply scaled % tax levies the higher their products outside regulated pricing.

Step 2
-Legislate Insurance companies, capping them. Apply scaled % tax levies the higher their premiums, forcing them to provide lower premiums to generate higher users paying lower fees.

Step 3
-Create an equal number of membership 'non for profit' insurance companies that function like a credit union. Creating competition to drive down costs.

Step 4
- Cap Tax at 2% towards healthcare, Pay the full .5 -2% (scaled to income) if want government care insurance and if you get private cover you get a .5-2% tax rebate (scaled to income) and depending on your level of coverage.

Step 5
-Remove companies paying for employee insurance once the premiums are capped and dropped through competition to drive up number of users individually affording healthcare. It's all just numbers, the current work paid insurance has less % of users than if you provide a system available to ALL individuals. Higher number of users create competition and drop premiums


You're Welcome America.


edit on 24-3-2017 by zazzafrazz because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:23 PM
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originally posted by: BubbaJoe

So you are one that are willing to let people get sick and die, see my previous comments. Cash out and quit, who really cares, you are one that gets on and spouts crap about how bad you have it, I have one of my clients writing a 1 mil + check to the IRS tomorrow.


I have no control over who gets sick, why they get sick, and certainly have no responsibility for them when they do. If they die from that sickness I hope they RIP, but everyone is going to die. Regardless of what I do or how much of my wherewithal leftists try to confiscate from me, that person was going to die anyway.

Can you cite ANY Constitutional requirement that mandates the Federal government provide healthcare free of charge to US citizens?

Again, who's going to pay?
edit on 24-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Obama is a failed dummy.

edit on 24-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Bill Clinton's wife lost the popular vote too!



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

We wouldn't have Medicare now if our constitution banned our government from providing it to the elderly.

Base on that, I don't think our constitution bars us from having universal healthcare either.

All we need to do is to expand Medicare to cover everyone and adjust the Medicare tax rate to cover it.

The offset for the taxpayer is that he/she no longer has to pay for private healthcare insurance coverage.

By doing so, we eliminate any profits being siphoned away from providing actual healthcare while maximizing the size of the insurance pool, thereby lowering the overall per capital healthcare cost.

Personally, I don't need it. I've been retired from my union job since I was 48 yrs old, (60 now) I haven't paid a premium in 12 yrs and I haven't had a deductible other than a co-pay for over 37yrs.

When I was still employed, I served as a labor trustee on the board of directors of our multi-employer benefit trust funds that provide my benefits and I know what can be done when the right motives are employed.

When it comes to healthcare, profit is NOT a suitable consideration. It only serves to jeopardize the quality and availability of treatment.

edit on 24-3-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: SBMcG

We wouldn't have Medicare now if our constitution banned our government from providing it to the elderly.


Jesus...

Medicare is like welfare for the elderly poor. It is NOT a universal healthcare TAX like Barrycare. The one thing has nothing to do with the other -- they are totally different things.

The single-payer coverage the leftist thieves want would cost at least $1 trillion a year. That would have to be funded by new taxes. Most leftists who want universal coverage don't pay taxes. Get where this is going...?

It's never going to happen. Obama had to lie for months to get even the leftists in Congress to pass Barrycare. He said it wasn't a tax. Yet, when it went to the SCOTUS, the only way it could survive was for liar Obama to admit it was a tax.






edit on 24-3-2017 by SBMcG because: Obama has a forged birth certificate.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:40 PM
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The GOP has had 4 years to formulate a replacement for obamacare but all they have done for 4 years is bitch and complain about it,typical do nothing career politicians.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: introvert
I still don't know why we haven't just stopped the nonsense and put a universal healthcare system in place.

All this back and forth about Obamacare/repeal, blah blah, is a waste of our time.

It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well get it over with.


If Trump did that, I promise he'd be reelected in 2020. I'd even vote for him.


So would I.


I would too, but I get my care from the VA, so I am used to the system. I get excellent care, see them a couple of times a year, and rarely receive a bill.


Thank you for your service.


You are welcome, my service was a long time ago, 80's, but the government has kept their promise. 7 years active, never left the states.


I don't care. You served and I thank you for that. It is also my pleasure to pay the taxes that allows our government to keep the promises they make to our service members. Though, I fear the government fails them from time to time.


They do, and I cringe when I think of it. I have only used my VA benefits since about 2009, and have received excellent care. If you hear someone bitching about VA, ask them how they are treated. Many of those bitching are not even veterans.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

The majority of the solidly blue states pay more taxes than they get back in Federal dollars. On a state-by-state basis, the red states are net tax takers, and it's the real productive class (those creating new technology and innovating new markets) that are the actual high earners. Most of them are fairly liberal by default, as creativity and innovation don't normally align with conservatism.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
The GOP has had 4 years to formulate a replacement for obamacare but all they have done for 4 years is bitch and complain about it,typical do nothing career politicians.


The GOP voted on an Obamacare repeal dozens of times. Obama could have signed that and fixed the problem at any time. He chose to let the plan continue to collapse along with his failed regime instead.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: SBMcG

The majority of the solidly blue states pay more taxes than they get back in Federal dollars. On a state-by-state basis, the red states are net tax takers, and it's the real productive class (those creating new technology and innovating new markets) that are the actual high earners. Most of them are fairly liberal by default, as creativity and innovation don't normally align with conservatism.


And...?

What does that have to do with liberals stealing more wealth from the productive class?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

A modest proposal: since we want to ramp up the military anyway, let's take our war on healthcare to the world, starting with deep-pocket terror supporting sheiks and south-American narco cartels.

To the victor, goes the spoils of healthcare.

Win/ win, right?



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: SBMcG

Nothing? Your assertion is pure propaganda. The productive class, as I have already explained, are largely liberal.



posted on Mar, 24 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: SBMcG

Nothing? Your assertion is pure propaganda. The productive class, as I have already explained, are largely liberal.


I can gaurantee you that is a myth.

People who build business and employ people are overwhelmingly conservative.

Look at Barry Obama's voting demographic and get back to me.




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