Putin Threatens the West With NATO Ultimatum

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The bs NATO expansion argument they like to trot out is based on lies Putin has pushed. Gorbachev stated the only agreement made with NATO was they could not place NATO forces in E. Germany and Gorbachev stated NATO kept true to their word on it.

There was never any agreement that NATO would not expand. They also ignore the fact Eastern Europe was occupied for 50+ years by the USSR, a violation of the Yalta agreement by the USSR.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Jesus, do you actually believe/read the stuff you type?

I know the truth hurts sometimes don't it.

What would you like Russia and Syria to do? just lay down their arms and welcome the US / ISIS liberators?

How about for one they stick to the fight against ISIS and leave the civilians out of it...that's a good start.

the only threat to peace is people like you, who ramble on about evil dictators while completely ignoring the fact that we, the WEST are the ones working behind the scenes for totally anarchy and war.

Ah yes let's forget all about the oppression the Assad regime has been doing to their own people, the use of chemical weapons on his people, here is a report that explains it better.

www.fidh.org...

This has been brewing long before the civil war started. You can only oppress your people so long before they get tired and rebel...which is what happened.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Same old story with them.. When they cant refute facts they launch the personal attack and try to change the topic.


This applies to his post below as well targeting you.

Ah yes let's forget all about the oppression the Assad regime has been doing to their own people, the use of chemical weapons on his people, here is a report that explains it better.

I dont know if its gullibility or willful ignorance but the only danger in this world are people like you.

a reply to: Xcathdra

im talking about a whole other thing.

a reply to: Substracto

no nothing aggressive. just counter propaganda and withdrawing support. not perpetuating their stupid myths bolstering patriotism and stuff like that.

i really could care less about the constitution. we cant just go yeah everyone should be able to say what they want. when people say things sometimes they get people to believe their bs. they can lie. their words can have terrible consequences. you cant just use free speech as a blanket. sometimes people speech has to be impeed on. if someone is really good at manipulating people into killing themselves with speech shouldnt that person be stopped? this isnt a black and white issue.

ok well then by that logic Obama is a dictator too. im pretty sure his presidency has been found to be the most controlled as far as information goes. many journalists have committed "suicide" under his rule. its just politics. thats the way it is. a dictator tells people how to live and what to believe. north korea has a dictator. russia and US have regular old presidents that are just using the tools at their disposal.

and no you dont have to follow in putins line. just dont # # up and you can say what you want, you can believe what you want and so on.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

yeah. didnt i just say its a valid military tactic?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

im talking about a whole other thing.

Yeah no.. You were talking about individual Russians whose actions / speech incite violence. I was pointing out Putin, as a Russian, whose speeches / interviews / comments are inciting violence.

Nice try on the deflection though.

So your answer then would be "excuse".

a reply to: Xcathdra

no im talking about groups within a culture that create counter culture that have negative sociological effects on the rest of the society.

putin making threats is a different subject altogether. the threat of violence can be used to achieve many different outcomes. i dont have an excuse. i dont need one. im not protecting putin im talking about a whole other thing. if you wanna talk about what you are talking about then by all means go find someone to talk about it with.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
no im talking about groups within a culture that create counter culture that have negative sociological effects on the rest of the society.

Like Putin

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
putin making threats is a different subject altogether. the threat of violence can be used to achieve many different outcomes. i dont have an excuse. i dont need one. im not protecting putin im talking about a whole other thing. if you wanna talk about what you are talking about then by all means go find someone to talk about it with.

So if its not Putin they should be puinished and if it is Putin its an excuse..

check.

a reply to: Xcathdra

and excuse for what?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

and excuse for what?

If a Russian incites violence you say he should be dealt with. If that Russian inciting violence is Putin you make excuses for it and says it doesn't apply.

I am calling out your double standard and your excuses for Putin inciting violence.

a reply to: Xcathdra

when did i make excuses? can you quote me?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

you said -
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Substracto

ohh yeah? what did those investigation actually find? that two men speaking russian were seen leaving the hotel. oooooh must have been putin. please let me know what else they found. come on. im ready to hear it.

no im not kidding. whats wrong with that. order has to be kept. when a president is elected and makes the lives of the people living in his country better why should i support opposition to him?

democracy works to a certain extent. and i straight up dont agree with it. i think people should be able to think and say what they want. but if people are saying things that incite violence no freaking way. for example the sjw crowd, the feminists, and the BLM movement. those groups are tearing the country apart. they need to be dealt with for the good of the people. sorry for giving a # about actual quality of life over some queer form of government so many seem to believe in.

ok dude. dictators dictate. tell me right now what putin has dictated.

Saying things that incite violence you say. I pointed out -

* - Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea
* - Moscow troops could be in five NATO capitals in two days, boasts Putin: Leader boasted to Ukrainian president about Russian power
* - P utin 'privately threatened to invade Poland, Romania and the Baltic states'
* - Putin Threatens Turkish Jets in Syria as Spat Escalates
* - Putin Threatens World War Again, This Time Over Syria: Will Turks And Saudis Call His Bluff?
* - Secretar y of Defense Carter: Russia's Loose Talk about Nuclear Weapons is 'Most Disturbing'
* - Putin Threatens the West With NATO Ultimatum

Does your standard apply to Putin or do you make excuses because its Putin?

You said-

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

im talking about a whole other thing.

You are saying people who incite violence should be dealt with except apparently when the person inciting violence is Putin, at which point you try to dismiss it and claim you are referring to something else.

You up to speed now?

a reply to: Xcathdra

yeah like i said i was referring to counter culture groups that have negative effects on the culture. culture = unity in a society. when people dont assimilate into a culture is has negative ramifications on the way that the society operates. this is not good. those people should be dealt with to preserve the culture

im not talking about what Putin says to other countries. if someone wants to stop him from making threats then they can give it a go. but my very first comment on this thread was that i wished that America would start acting the way Putin does. so i don't have a problem with anyone inciting that type of violence or making threats. i think its a good tactic and more often than not it actually prevents violence. it all circles back into this little concept the people of earth like to call respect. it can be earned in many ways. fear is one of them. people dont respect America because the people speaking for America act like cowards. they are too scared to make a good threat.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Putin Threatens the West With NATO Ultimatum

As of this writing, the “cessation of hostilities” in Syria has all but collapsed, and thousands of Russian forces are aiding Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s campaign to retake Aleppo.

At the same time, the Minsk II agreement between Russia and Ukraine remains, as it always has been, an agreement more honored in the breach than in the observance thereof.

In both cases, it is clear that Moscow never meant to implement the provisions to which it signed on. The cessation of hostilities in Syria never was a true cessation, war continued against Assad’s opponents and Russian President Vladimir Putin is now revealed to have told Assad, "We won’t let you lose.”

Meanwhile, more European elites are saying that we should relieve the sanctions burden on Russia because, after all, Putin is cooperating with the West against terrorism in Syria.

But those who wish to ease or remove sanctions on the grounds of Putin’s alleged cooperation in Syria against terrorists have the burden of proof upon them to demonstrate how this cooperation actually manifests itself and why we should begin a process of dialogue. Putin has made clear that Russia, under his rule, will not and cannot make credible commitments.

At the NATO-Russia Council meeting, Russia’s Ambassador Alexander Grushko delivered an ultimatum to NATO, saying that any move by NATO to enhance its self-defense will be regarded by Russia as a threat that precludes negotiations and will impel Moscow to take its habitual “appropriate responses.” Grushko revealed not only that Moscow sees NATO as a threat, but also that it insists NATO not defend itself, since such moves are inherently provocative.

Click link for remainder of article...

Once again Putin has demonstrated he is insane and a threat to peace. Now he's demanding NATO cease its self defense plans that are underway. Apparently Obama once again gave in by ruling out any further countries from joining NATO so it does not "provoke" Russia. Recently its been discovered Putin told Assad they won't let him lose and we are seeing that with Syrian government forces ignoring the cease fire they signed to continue attacking non Isis forces.

He invades Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova and does not understand why bordering countries are increasing their defense abilities. He threatens Finland and Sweden with a military response should they join NATO.

Everything Putin is bitching about has occurred because of his actions.

Putin must go before he starts WWIII over his ego and image.

Other Source -
* - Memo to Europe: Don’t Fall for Russia’s Empty Promises

Crimea was part of Russia for centuries and its the only part of Ukraine they took back. And they did so for good reason because the new government ruling in Ukraine is essentially a far right party and has neo- Nazi leanings. America is again supporting the wrong people because they dislike the Russians. And of course Putin is going to say stop sending foreign troops to countries near our border! What would America do if the Russians were sending troops, planes and tanks to Canada or Mexico to keep America at bay?

Russia has been an military ally of Syria for 50 years. You know they have a legitimate right to protect their national security. You think it would be better if Isis or Islamics took Syria and set up a new base to attack the West. As for i am aware the Muslims who have been attacking America since the 90's are Sunni not Shia. Those countries who are allies of America in the Middle East are Sunni.

a reply to: Xcathdra

so now that ive said the same thing 5 times in 5 different way in hopes that you would understand it are you satisfied? can i go home now?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

"yeah like i said i was referring to counter culture groups that have negative effects on the culture. culture = unity in a society. when people dont assimilate into a culture is has negative ramifications on the way that the society operates. this is not good. those people should be dealt with to preserve the culture."


Only if a society isnt strong enough, is its culture in danger. Thats not whats happening now, you have groups here and there stirring noise, thats just it. No one is falling for their demands and crying they are right, at least the majority. Counter Culture is necessary, specially the informed kind, or we would all be sheeps, like in George Orwels 1984.

a reply to: Substracto

how about the counter culture of protecting Muslims no matter what. how about the counter culture that thinks that open border policy's are ok? youre not talking about what im talking about. im talking about counter culture that protects people that come into the country and refuse to assimilate. im talking about the counter culture that perpetuates women's rights myths like the wage gap. or the counter culture that is trying to tell everyone that racism is somehow still like it was 60 years ago because cops are discharging their weapons at black kids, many of whom were actual criminals and assaulted the police officers. sure some of those deaths were unjustified but these movements have lead to riots and brutal beatings. i could go on.

and yes the government is very much supporting them. i have no idea how you think they arent.

these things do bring disorder to the society and they need to be stopped, not fostered and allowed to grow.

these are not informed counter cultures.

and the society is weakened through this type of behavior. doesn't matter how strong it was. putins aim is to preserve Russian culture. so dissenters are met with opposition. i agree with this because culture needs to be preserved.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Now you made your point clear, thank you.