Putin Threatens the West With NATO Ultimatum

a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin wass bad as everyone says he is, he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

originally posted by: kieran1
a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin was bad as everyone says he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

You are just regurgitating Russian lies. Your use of the words "Nazi" and "Fascist" is offensive. There are more genuine Nazis in the Russian duma than there are in the Ukrainian parliament, and Putin's absolutist regime can best be described as "Fascist."

Putin does not have the military ability to conquer and occupy Ukraine, so he has created a state of chaos that makes it impossible for Ukraine to join NATO. He also has Turkey and its control of the Black Sea to worry about, and the danger of a possible run-in with the Israeli military in Syria. In Asia, Siberia is experiencing a demographic and economic shift towards China, and the specter of a viable separatist movement is starting to materialize. Putin is blustering to conceal his real weaknesses.

originally posted by: kieran1
a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin wass bad as everyone says he is, he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

I think they just took Crimea before Ukraine joined EU and NATO

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Apparently Obama once again gave in by ruling out any further countries from joining NATO so it does not "provoke" Russia.

I agree with you on everything else, but this is a wise move by Obama, because it again makes clear that the "evil West" are actually the ones being sensible and sane here. We are not the ones threatening other nations with invasion and war, Putin is.

If Putin was not acting in the way he has been acting, those nations around him would not need to be increasing their defences.

He's like the crazy neighbour who punches a couple of friends, then complains that everyone in the neighbourhood is operating some kind of conspiracy when he stops getting invites to the BBQ's.

If Russia doesn't want to see NATO on its damn borders, maybe Putin should STOP threatening its neighbours?

The guy is a nut case, a delusional fool who seems to constantly be fapping over some imagined resurrection of the dead Soviet Union.

I dread to think what might happen after Obama leaves office and Putin pulls one of his arrogant Vodka-fuelled machismo manoeuvrers.

originally posted by: kieran1
a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin wass bad as everyone says he is, he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

Repeating the bullsh*t will not make it true.
Even those who are critical of the US and understand the national interests of other nations do not believe this nonsense, you are flogging a dead horse to a minority of pro-Kremlin propagandists here and the rest of us know EXACTLY what happened in the invasion of Ukraine and the totally corrupt "referendum" held in Crimea at the hot end of a Kalashnikov.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: kieran1
a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin was bad as everyone says he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

You are just regurgitating Russian lies. Your use of the words "Nazi" is offensive. There are more genuine Nazis in the Russian duma than there are in the Ukrainian parliament.

Putin does not have the military ability to conquer and occupy Ukraine, so he has created a state of chaos that makes it impossible for Ukraine to join NATO. He also has Turkey and its control of the Black Sea to worry about, and the danger of a possible run-in with the Israeli military in Syria. In Asia, Siberia is experiencing a demographic and economic shift towards China, and the specter of a viable separatist movement is starting to materialize. Putin is blustering to conceal his real weaknesses.

en.wikipedia.org...(political_party)#/media/File:IN_(yellow_background).svg This is the symbol (flag of the party now ruling in Kiev.

Anyone with a brain and has done even a little bit of research knows the truth. Its not Russian lies or fabrications.

www.globalresearch.ca...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Your a blind fool if you cannot see that we ''the west'' have been the aggressor for the past decade. All over the middle east.

Our bought for and biased media paint Russia as the enemy because they are the only reasonable force in our way from achieving our middle eastern goals.

You've been sucked right in by the honey.. you still think Assad used chemical weapons against his own people.. you still think Russia is the Boogie man because he's helping Syria.

your logic and method of debate is as painful as a state department press conference.

I'm done talking to people like you, xcathdra or what not as well. You may speak with intelligence and witt but your logic , either flawed through deliberate methods or just total ignorance is like trying staple jelly to a wall.

Your type will be the downfall of the west because you so willingly believe that everyone else is wrong and you are right purely because you are the west.

** NEWS FLASH ** we are on the wrong side, we are the aggressors, we are the liars, we are the ones using propaganda to trick people but you dont give a damn because your TV says Russia is the enemy.

Its upsetting.. it really is.. our own stupidity is our downfall -

Jon out!

We have no choice. It's a desperate war for resources.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: kieran1
a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimea population is near 3 million about 70 per cent of the population identify themselves as Russian. Putin took back a region that voted to be part of Russia again. Are those people not allowed to have a say? Putin did not invade Ukraine when it was at peace. There was an coup in Ukraine orchestrated by fascists who have ties to Hitlers Nazis. Putin was not going to allow Crimea to be ruled by Neo-Nazis. He left Kiev to be ruled by the Fascists because the people there are Ukrainians and thats what they want. If Putin wass bad as everyone says he is, he would have taken every inch of Ukrainian territory but he hasn't.

Repeating the bullsh*t will not make it true.
Even those who are critical of the US and understand the national interests of other nations do not believe this nonsense, you are flogging a dead horse to a minority of pro-Kremlin propagandists here and the rest of us know EXACTLY what happened in the invasion of Ukraine and the totally corrupt "referendum" held in Crimea at the hot end of a Kalashnikov.

How is it corrupt the majority of the population are Russians, why would they vote to stay in Ukraine?

a reply to: kieran1

Anyone with a brain and has done even a little bit of research knows the truth. Its not Russian lies or fabrications.

Svoboda had its largest membership under Yanukovych. This is because Yanukovych gave it more exposure in the media in order to create the impression that his opponents were Nazis. In the 2014 election, they were unable to get the 5% of the votes needed to get a seat in the Verkhovna Rada, the Ukrainian parliament:

en.wikipedia.org...

On the other hand, the Russian duma has 56 members from the Политическая партия ЛДПР:

The Political party LDPR (Russian: Политическая партия ЛДПР),[7] formerly the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (Russian: Либерально-Демократическая Партия России – Liberal'no-Demokraticheskaya Partiya Rossii), is a far-right political party in the Russian Federation. The charismatic and controversial Vladimir Zhirinovsky has led the party since its founding in 1989.

Opposing both communism and the neoliberal capitalism of the 1990s*, the party scored a major success in the 1993 Russian Duma elections, receiving a plurality of votes. In the elections in 2007, the party received 8.14% of the vote, giving it 40 of the 450 seats in the State Duma. In the 2011 elections, they increased their percentage to 11.4%.

Despite the party's name, it is frequently described as "neither liberal nor democratic." The party has been described as fiscally leftist and authoritarian. Its ideology is based primarily on Zhirinovsky's ideas of "imperial reconquest" (a "renewed Russian Empire") and on an authoritarian vision of a "Greater Russia"

[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

* Defining characteristics of Fascism. [DJW001]

a reply to: Xcathdra

The word 'shill' is bandied around ATS far too often i think. More appropriate, in many instances, would be a monica of 'fanatic' or 'fundamentalist' in my opinion.

Both of the latter would seem to apply to you more than most posters i've read here. Never have i come across such obviously biased, agenda-driven drivel posted by anyone else on ATS, and i've been here in one form or another since the early days of ATS, and have seen quite a fair bit of rabid fundamentalism and outright opinion shaping / manipulation by a fair number of people who tried it on with the membership here, who would ordinarily have been called out as shills, but not many of them have your zeal and fundamentalist attitude for character assassination of your favourite whipping boys, the Russians and their leadership.

You know FULL well, that the spin you're trying and always attempting to attach to Putin is eroneous and blatently false.

Even the US government (and that's saying something) have admitted that the violence going on in Aleppo right now, is to blame for the most part on terrorist groups inside Syria, those same terrorist groups that both your country and mine (to my shame, although obviously not yours..) gave comfort and support to, along with vast sums of money, equipment, training, weapons, defensive equipment and general aid to, and were in truth the enablers of the carnage that has continued for years after these terrorist groups would have been overwhelmingly crushed by the Syrian regular Army without the US and European support handed to them.

Al-Nusra is the terrorist group of the minute, busy carrying out attrocities, massacres and shellings of civillians inside and around Allepo.

OF COURSE the Russian troops are in Aleppo, the world knows the Russians are ALLIES of Syria and are pledged to aid the Syrian government with similar levels of aid our countries have been handing out to the terrorists groups that were hoped could oust Assad. This is no secret nor is it unexpected, it's perfectly normal and legitimate, unlike the actions of our governments which are completely illegitamate and illegal in the eyes of internetional and domestic law.

Aiding terrorists is basically treason by American standards and letter of the law, since you and we are supposedly at war with terrorism...or have you forgotten why your rights have been stripped away over the last decade and your spies are listening and watching everything you do in your private and public lives, why your citizens can be dragged off without trial, tortured and in cases that are deemed deserving, put to death on the whim of your president?

I doubt the US government will be hanging from the gallows for treason though, despite how much aid, comfort and support they provide to their stated enemies, the terrorists. Not counting creating the 'ideal' conditions for millions of men, women and children to be displaced from their homes, creating the current refugee and opportunist crisis Europe is now mired up to it's proverbial neck in.

You are an obvious propagandist, extremely tenacious i'll grant you, but utterly transparent hiding behind dodgy reports by dodgy website authors who's politics and anti-putin or anti-Russian bias always conveniently seem to neatly coincide with your own more than often posted stance.

That is not innocent reporting, that is extreme bias and fundamentalist opinion shaping of the readers and members here...and really, you ought to have had your vitriolic wings clipped by moderators long ago imo...yet here you are, using ATS as your own personal anti-Russian Jihadi-like soap box...i honestly don't know how you've gotten away with your baloney for so long.

Perhaps if the US military had actually had more than a half-arsed mindset to actually stamp out terrorism in Syria and elsewhere, and not fund and support it, to actively prop these terrorist groups up to use as a proxy army in Syria, and to use as a domestic 'bogeyman' of an excuse to crush millions of American people's freedoms and rights, the Russian allies of Syria wouldn't have had to go in to the region and actually right the terrible mistakes of political judgement and crimes against Humanity comitted there by your country and mine, by actually effectively fighting against those who would murder innocents and deliberately destroy Syria from the inside...yet you somehow think the Russians, doing what the US government claimed to have been doing, (but were actually doing nothing of the sort for over two years!) is worthy of attack at every opportunity?

I don't know what your angle is and why you hate the Russians and Putin SO much that it is almost palpable, and as i say i am reluctant to mention the word 'shill', because i don't believe in this case that you are one...misguided fundamentalist propagandist perhaps is more of an apt descripion, but i honestly don't get you or your tunnel vision, selective politics and views.

The only conclusion i can reach is that you are in reality some old cold war throwback, entrenched in the 1950's / 1960's mindset of 'the commies are coming to kill us in our beds' type of thinking, and anything Russian is automatically to be feared and attacked...is that it? Is that really your angle? Frankly, if so, i'm afraid you need to take a long, honest look in the mirror and realise how pathetic that view is.

Suffice to say, reading through some of the comments you are receieving on your posting this type of tripe of late, i'm not the only member who's gotten wise to you mate...the more you post, the more ridiculously transparent your single-minded, rabid rhetoric becomes.

originally posted by: DJW001

Putin does not have the military ability to conquer and occupy Ukraine

I beg your pardon?

That being the case, why all the talk of Russian Aggression and the buildup of US and it's proxy NATO forces along the Russian borders to "deter Russian Aggression"?

Isn't that a rather contradictory statement after many months of bleating about the nasty Russians and their plans to retake all of Europe, led by Putin, in a throwback to the days of the Soviet Union?

a reply to: MysterX

Returning to the topic of this thread, Putin is attempting to frighten his neighbors and justify his aggrandizement of power in the eyes of the Russian people. His rhetoric is being used by the American military-industrial complex to create a false threat that justifies increased military spending; the same old trick they used during the First Cold War. Putin's Russia is no more of a threat to Europe and the United States than post-Stalinist USSR. Russia is now a "paper bear."

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MysterX

Returning to the topic of this thread, Putin is attempting to frighten his neighbors and justify his aggrandizement of power in the eyes of the Russian people. His rhetoric is being used by the American military-industrial complex to create a false threat that justifies increased military spending; the same old trick they used during the First Cold War. Putin's Russia is no more of a threat to Europe and the United States than post-Stalinist USSR. Russia is now a "paper bear."

THE topic at hand is nothing more than virtually EVERY similar topic posted by the OP, a blatent excuse to rubbish the Russian people and the Russian leadership as per usual.

That IS the topic at hand, anything else is a manipulative play on events, any event it seems, to accomplish that goal.

I suggest actually using your own powers of discernment rather than parroting and propagating this drivel...your choice.

a reply to: Britguy

That being the case, why all the talk of Russian Aggression and the buildup of US and it's proxy NATO forces along the Russian borders to "deter Russian Aggression"?

That's the neighboring governments' idea, not mine. Also, see my reply above.

Isn't that a rather contradictory statement after many months of bleating about the nasty Russians and their plans to retake all of Europe, led by Putin, in a throwback to the days of the Soviet Union?

Again, not my opinion. Russia has been seeking to project power through subversion, by supporting opposition parties (usually right wing) in European countries in order to weaken them politically and economically. If the European Union can be dissolved, Russia will rise in economic ranking to a power between Germany and France, rather than a distant fifth or sixth place.

a reply to: DJW001

So you disagree that the military-industrial complex has been exaggerating the Russian military threat? Do you think there is a real chance that they will invade Sweden, rather than just play head games with their jets?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: DJW001

So you disagree that the military-industrial complex has been exaggerating the Russian military threat? Do you think there is a real chance that they will invade Sweden, rather than just play head games with their jets?

You're answering your own posts now DJ?

What's that all about...hammering your point?

The MIL-IND-COM always looks for reasons to exaggerate ANY threat, however tenuous...Russia has lkong been a good source of scaring money from Congress and probably always will be.

I can't wait for them to use the ET card to drum up dough for a new gen of weapons, that will be a hoot.

a reply to: MysterX

Suffice to say, reading through some of the comments you are receieving on your posting this type of tripe of late, i'm not the only member who's gotten wise to you mate...the more you post, the more ridiculously transparent your single-minded, rabid rhetoric becomes.

It is not just 'of late'. Any mention of Russia, Putin, Ukraine or Syria... alerts a small group of agenda driven posters. Hey...we all know who they are. They use the same old tired rhetoric as the MSM. Assad must go, Putin must go, Russian aggression and threats, Putin's temper tantrums, Putinistas...lol....
If the T&C's allowed I would name them.

a reply to: midicon

Never mind.

The Soviet Union was attacked by the Nazis and the country was ravaged and pillaged by them. Cities in Russia were destroyed and millions of innocents were wiped out. There is a reason the Soviet took all of Eastern Europe and East Berlin and stayed there for 45 years. The Soviet Union collapsed because its was left in ruins after the Nazi invasion and the economic pressure to keep the cold war going lend to its demise. The ideology was sound. China is communist and by the year 2020-25 likely will be the richest country on Earth. Communism can work with a bit of tweaking around the edges.

America still has military bases in Japan and Germany in 2016. The Russians have know bases in Germany, or most of East Europe today. The Russians have every right to dislike Fascists and Nazis. The problem is not Russia its America supporting a government thats openly racist and anti- Russian.

a reply to: MysterX

The MIL-IND-COM always looks for reasons to exaggerate ANY threat, however tenuous...Russia has lkong been a good source of scaring money from Congress and probably always will be.

And Putin is playing the same game from the other side. His presence in Syria is as much about demonstrating the hardware Russia has to sell than supporting one of his few client states.