The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

"Is this real or just a hallucination
I'm losing my mind, insane.. and I'm starting to believe it
Sometimes I hallucinate
And I don't know what I'm seeing
Is it my mind playing tricks on me?
Or the drugs they insist I take?
I don't know what is truth or fake, yo who's to say
As I hallucinate
Don't believe what you're seeing
I'ma try to be the one that leads you
Don't listen to them demons
Or fall into them drugs that feed you lies

you are god there's no heaven above

Trust I "

/
block mccloud - hallucination

a reply to: tigertatzen

There are numerous different alternate possibilities than "confabulation" being discussed here. Of those, deliberate tampering with memories seems the most plausible to me. Of course, deliberately tampering with the timeline itself sounds more fascinating, but less plausible...or I'd have chosen that instead.

Random reality shifts or time shifts or alternate universes or this world being a simulation or dimensions crossing over each other or any of the other possibilities being discussed here just don't seem very plausible to me. However, I post about them too. I simply chose what I consider to be the strongest example and approached it from that angle.

Hi Tiger, (mind if I call you that? If not, let me know)

I was wondering if I could quote you here on another thread? I'd like to say something about this and I believe it would be thread drift on this one. You said it way better than I can, and I would obviously link it back to you here.

CF

a reply to: hidingthistime

The distinction you made is very important as well as I want to reiterate these common memories people have were not encoded in the brain under duress, trauma or a one time crazy (it happened so fast) event.

Well, here's another spitball... and I previously touched on it, but have some more... and it goes back to the alleged secret space program guys ...or at least the tech they found/developed, as it could be the good ol' Earthly black tech, too.

In that astr0 thread he mentioned that the alien greys were partly a projection, a marker left to gauge their consciousness writing tech... as far as conspiracy theories go, that one had some interesting back up, and if it's at all "real" then there are people who have access to ...well, total mind control/rewriting tech of some serious caliber.

Perhaps they are entering false memories into the gen pop to monitor it's effectiveness.

I would say it's successful, if so!

a reply to: tigertatzen

You know, I didn't think much of the original speculations about the Sun changing from yellow to white - but I thought, "Hang it" this evening, and decided to try and look directly at the Sun. WTF?! The Sun has changed into some horrendously, unforgivingly glaring bright white nemesis..!!! I couldn't even look at a partially tinted reflection in my car rear window, let alone directly at it.

So now I'm having an existential crisis, because, like you, I vividly remember staring directly at the Sun as a youngster. I can remember the garden & the cottage where I was visiting, when I decided to try it. It was a little village in Wales, UK, and I lay in the grass & stared up at a lovely, bright yellow Sun for at least several minutes. I remember having fun trying to make the Sun-shaped black/purple 'blind spot' appear in my vision directly after staring at it.

I am officially freaked out by how white & brilliant the Sun is presently - I know it would almost certainly blind me to stare at it directly now.

Seriously, if your local star gets switched out, you know you're in the twilight zone.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

(Hey Fly! I sent you a PM...)

The sun is definitely whiter/brighter and more intense than when I was a child!

I always thought it was due to the thinning of the ozone layer or something. I thought we'd screws up the atmosphere enough to alter the types of rays that can reach us, making it look whiter as well.

I hope something worse didn't happen because that's really bad enough.

AB

a reply to: tigertatzen

As it happens, I've been reading a lot about hypnosis recently, and I would offer some facts for consideration regarding establishing veracity, etc, through use of hypnosis.

Firstly, if the programmer has been a bit sloppy, you could get around the programming by asking the hypnotised person whether anyone has tampered with their memories lately, or whether they are aware of anyone else who has subjected them to hypnosis. Direct question to the subconscious will elicit the answer, if no post-hypnotic blocks are in place.

Hypnosis cannot usually be used to convince someone to do something they would not willingly, consciously, go along with, under some set of circumstances, in the ordinary course of life. So the Manchurian candidate idea of an unwilling assassin doesn't fully pan out, because if he were to be an assassin, he would have to have agreed to the task in principle, even if it was arranged using roundabout logic to convince him - here's the rub - as that sort of manipulation can be facilitated more easily under hypnosis, it does provide something of a workaround for people trying to program others into doing something unseemly.

If we were being programmed with false memories, there's a chance that a post-hypnotic suggestion or ten would have been set in place, suggesting things like "Don't allow anyone but me to hypnotise you in future", or - more insidious - "Allow someone to hypnotise you, but present only the following facade, which I will dictate, as your knowledge of the matter concerning X, should you be questioned on it ....... "

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

In the situation we have envisioned, the hypnosis would have to be highly sophisticated, delivered in a highly efficient manner, and in a similar way, with similar content, for all people who are being programmed. Modern media does not present a controlled enough medium for the transferrance of these sorts of hypnotic facades. The hypnotic commands could only be delivered directly to the person's mind through ocular/aural transferrance, under deep trance conditions, in a sensorily sterile/ ganzfeld environment.

My rather frightening conclusion, is based on the premise that Humanity is not presently capable of:
- removing people from their ordinary environment without their overt knowledge, or the knowledge of their families & friends, in order to process their programming (removal would be necessary in order to control the session fully),
- delivering 'high-octane' hypnosis material in a relatively short space of time, as would be necessitated by short removals of the person from their environment (it would be like an audio-visual 'trip', starting from a ganzfeld state..)

I have to conclude then that 'someone else' is abducting people from their environments, without the knowledge of others (or the victim), and is thereafter programming them in a highly controlled & efficient manner, using high technology for all purposes. The material being used for the programming is sophisticated, and would have necessitated deep knowledge of Human culture & artifacts of modern consensus reality - thus long periods of observation & research to determine how best to structure the material (what type of MEs to create).

Who else do we know who has:

- high technology..
- the ability to abduct people covertly - even without spouse, children (etc) noticing..
- an interest in screwing with/ hurting individual people & Humanity en masse, per their own mysterious agenda..
- form for messing with people's memories (screen memories, etc..)
- zero in the way of conscience to stop them from abusing mankind..

I honestly think that, with regards to the Mandela Effect, we are quite possibly seeing the outworking of mass hypnotic manipulation by non-Human entities, or 'aliens', 'the greys', or whomever. They are the only 'sort-of known' group with the capabilities, the form, the lack of conscience, the mysterious and seemingly unassailable reasoning behind their activities...

Oh #.

a reply to: Phage

You realise you're not the first to lie about the people who experience ME. You say that these people think they are "very special". It's a statement which has been refuted several times in-thread, had you bothered to read (or if you'd had the care to read) you would see therein the hearfelt pleas of several people claiming that they hate the fact that this is happening to them, and they don't think they are special in any way. Your statement, that ME experiencers believe they are special, is a blatant lie, as is evidenced in the course of the thread, and you should retract the false allegation.

Otherwise, Phage, it seems you're following standard operating procedures for ridicule & ostracisation of those who experience anomalous events or perceptions.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Hi AB,

Thanks for your message - I did reply, but ATS seems to have lost the reply?! Weird. Anyway, I think the link you sent me is the wrong one, as it didn't point where it should have (ended up at the wiki for the Manhatten Project!) I'm replying here temporarily, I know it's thread drift, but the messaging doesn't seem to be working properly. I'm sure a mod will tidy up this post at some point, but I decided to post a reply here so you would definitely see it.

Look forward to speaking further,

FITO.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I understand your line of thinking. I know about mind control and mind programming. More than I'd like to know. It's a very deep and horrific subject and takes years to fully understand what's involved. I studied it for many years.

I want to say though, what if our memories are not false? What if it's those who deny the effect or have no memories of these things having been different at some point who have successfully been re-programmed to accept the new versions and forget any other version ever existed or deny it existed because of memory fallacy?

I'm just looking at it from a different perspective for the sake of study.

originally posted by: tweetie
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I understand your line of thinking. I know about mind control and mind programming. More than I'd like to know. It's a very deep and horrific subject and takes years to fully understand what's involved. I studied it for many years.

I want to say though, what if our memories are not false? What if it's those who deny the effect or have no memories of these things having been different at some point who have successfully been re-programmed to accept the new versions and forget any other version ever existed or deny it existed because of memory fallacy?

I'm just looking at it from a different perspective for the sake of study.

Heh. That's something I pondered too...

a reply to: Ruiner1978

Good! I find it necessary to look at things which are difficult to source from every possible angle.

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: tigertatzen

I can assure you I have no hostility against you.
I do get frustrated when people misunderstand me and when I feel I can't explain myself any better.
besides I struggle with the language in that circumstance (I'm Swedish) and it only aggravates me further but that's not your fault and I'm sorry if I seemed hostile towards you.

I know fully that I can come across wrong too, so I'm likely as much to blame as you. Please accept my apologies as well. I was going to ask you if English was a second language, but I didn't want to seem presumptuous. You communicate very well, actually. Just little details give you away. They say English is the hardest language to learn, and I believe it.

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: hidingthistime

it's happening to me aswell. I too, believe in some sort of creator but you're right, what you said made no sense why would a creator benevolent or not use this mindfuk tactics to communicate..

And that right there is the reason I find it far more plausible that if it's deliberate, it's being done by malicious human beings rather than a divine being or beings.

Obviously, part of human evolution is problem solving and adapting to change. But this is too random to be random; some minor tweak from an unseen omnipotent hand, if that makes sense. It is causing people distress, some of them severely so. It is also becoming more widespread, and if it continues, it could cause a panic. That a divine being would do something like that makes no sense to me. That's a human behavior...toying with people's minds like that.

The only alternative would be if said being or beings were not benevolent creators at all. That just doesn't seem logical to me. Why create an entire world in such painstaking detail, only to toy with its inhabitants in such a cruel, childish manner?

originally posted by: WeSbO
a reply to: alienDNA

Well that is true, as I've probably already mentioned the french title also translates with A vampire, they could have wrote it down as The vampire and nobody would have ticked (as in it doesn't sound funny).
Now to entertain the ME theory I was thinking the following :

If we go by the theory that it is time/dimensional travelers that are changing little things in our past the modify our present, and we assume the person speaks English or is from the states (or only the states have access to the technology) they would be more likely to modify English stuff, let me give an example :

The time/dimensional traveler went back to 1993/94 bumped into the guy that dealt with forwarding the info to the editing team, and spilled his coffee on him, that guy was pissed and didn't have a change of clothes, didn't double check what info the forwarded because he was frustrated by his shirt being stained with coffee, and gave "THE" as the info and not "A" a typo that everyone on the editing team followed, by that time the movie was translated, editing teams for foreign languages had the "A" info maybe from another guy in charge and it went on from there, a small mistake that no one noticed at the time, or by the time it was noticed everything was printed out and everyone just shrugged it off.

Now bear in mind that this is just an example of how things can go wrong in one language, and is just pure fiction and in no way a theory of what happened in this films case, I have no idea what the processes where in the 90's for releasing/creating a film, just as much as I have no idea what the processes are now.

Also in theory you only need one action to modify a series of events and whatnot.

Ok, your scenario makes a lot of sense. I've never liked the time travel theory, but it makes more sense to think of it in terms of a miscommunication or typo by an actual future person along our same timeline than just some random time shift that only affects a few hundred seemingly minor details for only a fraction of the planet's inhabitants.

Speaking of which, how would your hypothetical account for that bit? A whole lot of people notice but only on their periphery and the majority are just able to overlook the anomalies...even multiple ones? And by comparison there's just a handful who are bothered by it?

I know you're using it to account for the apparent language variant, but I'm curious to know how you might be able to explain that too.

originally posted by: ClownFish
a reply to: tigertatzen

There are numerous different alternate possibilities than "confabulation" being discussed here. Of those, deliberate tampering with memories seems the most plausible to me. Of course, deliberately tampering with the timeline itself sounds more fascinating, but less plausible...or I'd have chosen that instead.

Random reality shifts or time shifts or alternate universes or this world being a simulation or dimensions crossing over each other or any of the other possibilities being discussed here just don't seem very plausible to me. However, I post about them too. I simply chose what I consider to be the strongest example and approached it from that angle.

Hi Tiger, (mind if I call you that? If not, let me know)

I was wondering if I could quote you here on another thread? I'd like to say something about this and I believe it would be thread drift on this one. You said it way better than I can, and I would obviously link it back to you here.

CF

Hi CF Yes, please do...it's my nickname in real life. And yes, I'm perfectly OK with that. I'm happy to know that something I said is helpful to someone else. I am learning much from everyone else too.

originally posted by: tigertatzen

originally posted by: alienDNA
a reply to: hidingthistime

it's happening to me aswell. I too, believe in some sort of creator but you're right, what you said made no sense why would a creator benevolent or not use this mindfuk tactics to communicate..

And that right there is the reason I find it far more plausible that if it's deliberate, it's being done by malicious human beings rather than a divine being or beings.

Obviously, part of human evolution is problem solving and adapting to change. But this is too random to be random; some minor tweak from an unseen omnipotent hand, if that makes sense. It is causing people distress, some of them severely so. It is also becoming more widespread, and if it continues, it could cause a panic. That a divine being would do something like that makes no sense to me. That's a human behavior...toying with people's minds like that.

The only alternative would be if said being or beings were not benevolent creators at all. That just doesn't seem logical to me. Why create an entire world in such painstaking detail, only to toy with its inhabitants in such a cruel, childish manner?

Interesting thoughts.
But, just because people perceive it as a mindfuk doesn't necessarily mean that is the intent of the Creator being.
The intent could still be one of benevolence. We just don't understand the reason.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: tigertatzen

You know, I didn't think much of the original speculations about the Sun changing from yellow to white - but I thought, "Hang it" this evening, and decided to try and look directly at the Sun. WTF?! The Sun has changed into some horrendously, unforgivingly glaring bright white nemesis..!!! I couldn't even look at a partially tinted reflection in my car rear window, let alone directly at it.

So now I'm having an existential crisis, because, like you, I vividly remember staring directly at the Sun as a youngster. I can remember the garden & the cottage where I was visiting, when I decided to try it. It was a little village in Wales, UK, and I lay in the grass & stared up at a lovely, bright yellow Sun for at least several minutes. I remember having fun trying to make the Sun-shaped black/purple 'blind spot' appear in my vision directly after staring at it.

I am officially freaked out by how white & brilliant the Sun is presently - I know it would almost certainly blind me to stare at it directly now.

Seriously, if your local star gets switched out, you know you're in the twilight zone.

Did you visit my thread about the fake sky? I haven't checked it in a few days to read new comments. Anyway, the sun was the first thing that caused me to become aware that something was wrong with the sky.

I also have systemic lupus. The sun is my kryptonite...it exacerbates the disease. Since the fall of 2011, I have not been able to stand being in direct sunlight for longer than half an hour. In the past year, I can no longer tolerate it directly on my skin for more than a few SECONDS. It badly burns me. Because it's a concentrated, focused beam of incandescent light and heat. But if I step into a shadow, the warmth vanishes completely. Its light does not send warmth into the shadows because it is artificial. We are walking around under a lie, and have been, for a long time now.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: tigertatzen

As it happens, I've been reading a lot about hypnosis recently, and I would offer some facts for consideration regarding establishing veracity, etc, through use of hypnosis.

Firstly, if the programmer has been a bit sloppy, you could get around the programming by asking the hypnotised person whether anyone has tampered with their memories lately, or whether they are aware of anyone else who has subjected them to hypnosis. Direct question to the subconscious will elicit the answer, if no post-hypnotic blocks are in place.

Hypnosis cannot usually be used to convince someone to do something they would not willingly, consciously, go along with, under some set of circumstances, in the ordinary course of life. So the Manchurian candidate idea of an unwilling assassin doesn't fully pan out, because if he were to be an assassin, he would have to have agreed to the task in principle, even if it was arranged using roundabout logic to convince him - here's the rub - as that sort of manipulation can be facilitated more easily under hypnosis, it does provide something of a workaround for people trying to program others into doing something unseemly.

If we were being programmed with false memories, there's a chance that a post-hypnotic suggestion or ten would have been set in place, suggesting things like "Don't allow anyone but me to hypnotise you in future", or - more insidious - "Allow someone to hypnotise you, but present only the following facade, which I will dictate, as your knowledge of the matter concerning X, should you be questioned on it ....... "

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

In the situation we have envisioned, the hypnosis would have to be highly sophisticated, delivered in a highly efficient manner, and in a similar way, with similar content, for all people who are being programmed. Modern media does not present a controlled enough medium for the transferrance of these sorts of hypnotic facades. The hypnotic commands could only be delivered directly to the person's mind through ocular/aural transferrance, under deep trance conditions, in a sensorily sterile/ ganzfeld environment.

My rather frightening conclusion, is based on the premise that Humanity is not presently capable of:
- removing people from their ordinary environment without their overt knowledge, or the knowledge of their families & friends, in order to process their programming (removal would be necessary in order to control the session fully),
- delivering 'high-octane' hypnosis material in a relatively short space of time, as would be necessitated by short removals of the person from their environment (it would be like an audio-visual 'trip', starting from a ganzfeld state..)

I have to conclude then that 'someone else' is abducting people from their environments, without the knowledge of others (or the victim), and is thereafter programming them in a highly controlled & efficient manner, using high technology for all purposes. The material being used for the programming is sophisticated, and would have necessitated deep knowledge of Human culture & artifacts of modern consensus reality - thus long periods of observation & research to determine how best to structure the material (what type of MEs to create).

Who else do we know who has:

- high technology..
- the ability to abduct people covertly - even without spouse, children (etc) noticing..
- an interest in screwing with/ hurting individual people & Humanity en masse, per their own mysterious agenda..
- form for messing with people's memories (screen memories, etc..)
- zero in the way of conscience to stop them from abusing mankind..

I honestly think that, with regards to the Mandela Effect, we are quite possibly seeing the outworking of mass hypnotic manipulation by non-Human entities, or 'aliens', 'the greys', or whomever. They are the only 'sort-of known' group with the capabilities, the form, the lack of conscience, the mysterious and seemingly unassailable reasoning behind their activities...

Oh #.

Well, there you go! Now there's a decent fail-safe to strengthen alienDNA's truth seeking method. If the original program can be bypassed, it would definitely lend more credence to the test results overall.

I'd actually be willing to volunteer for something like that. I've always found it difficult to imagine anyone successfully hypnotizing me. I think it's because I'm an insomniac and a very light sleeper when I do fall asleep. It's hard to imagine being taken that far under without anesthesia.

I've thought about the alien angle, and in light of the recent uptick in sightings in my area, along with the declassified files some saintly soul put together for our perusal, I have to admit that it also seems plausible. I just don't like thinking about it because it's frightening to me. I cannot imagine a scenario in which such manipulation could be for anything other than a purely malevolent purpose.

Hmm...maybe on second thought, I wouldn't actually want to be hypnotized after all. I'm not sure I could handle finding out that I'd been abducted, on top of everything else I've been through. That's actually one of my darkest fears...not knowing I'd been abducted so much as having to relive it over and over in my head. Oh #, indeed.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Weird!!! I wonder what else I've missed.

Hm. I looked again and everything.

I really want to know what you said too! And I'm pretty sure I linked the post correctly but who knows.

Perhaps I will try again.