UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: 83Liberty
Here is a must watch video with some well known people explaining the birth and eventual death of the EU.

Some people may call it a conspiracy theory but it seems very accurate and plausible to me.

There are some important issues raised in the video that need to be discussed if people have time to watch.
-Particularly interested about the EU wanting to turn the UK into 12 regions
- The similarities between the EU and the Soviet Union.

Excellent video should be a compulsory watch for all UK citizens!

The ^^^^^ underlined is already in progress.

And to top it all the 'official' stay pamphlet came through my letter box today.
Before I go into it. The main differences are as has been said many times over
the *stay* rely on maybe's and opinions whereas the *leave* seem
to have more facts at hand!

Four words I know everyone is familiar with but I want to emphasise and define,in
relation to the both sides of the argument.

Facts something actual existing confirmed and validated. Fact is the place
most people tend to think their opinions reside.

Opinions a belief, an impression, a view not based on fact or knowledge

Supposition ideas, notions, views, theory or guesswork?

Propaganda Biased, misleading information deliberately spread to promote
a point of view.

THE FRONT COVER OF THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT LEAFLET.....

Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the EU is the best
decision for the UK.

Believes = an opinion/supposition.... not a fact It supposes the gov.
knows best? but does it? the politicians have their own agendas? don't they?

the EU countries buy 44% of what the UK sells abroad. Remaining in
the EU guarantees our full access to its single market. By contrast, leaving
creates uncertainty and risk

So the bigger 56% goes to countries outside of the EU? So it will be necessary to
make good the shortfall else where? (I was in sales!) The EU consists of
28 countries ... there are 196 countries world wide A BIG market
place?
Anyway it is hardly a forgone conclusion = again... opinion/supposition that the EU
will refuse to deal with a strong independent UK,*Made in Britain* was a guarantee
of quality and value? Can be again!
leaving creates uncertainty and risk Hmmn ...Propaganda?
AND EU and guarantee should never be in the same sentence.

Being inside the EU also makes it more attractive for companies to invest in
the UK

Who says so? The UK has more prestige than the EU. London is the biggest financial
centre not Germany or France.
We the UK as a nation needs to stop acting as the abused counterpart of the EU

Some argue little would change if we left the EU. But there are no guarantees
UK customers would keep these benefits if we left

There again only opinions/suppositions, propaganda. There are no guarantees
in life especially within the EU.

Voting to leave the EU would create years of uncertainty and potential
economic disruption

WHY???? Businesses separate part company go their own ways all of the time,
ANOTHER case of opinion/supposition and propaganda

The government judges it could result in 10 years of uncertainty as the UK unpicks
our relationship with the EU and reneogiates new arrangements with the EU and over
50 other countries around the world.

The government judges = opinion/supposition propaganda?
It is a business trading deal not a relationship, and the reason things take so long is
because there is too much bureaucracy and greasing of too many palms.

For example Canada's deal with the EU will give limited access for services,
it has so far been seven years in the making and is still not in force.

Does that surprise anyone? Too big, Too bloated, Too self important and Too much
bureaucracy... The UK will be leaner, fitter, and stronger when independent.
I mean, anyone who has their plans and finance in place for a business project would
be mad to hang around waiting (seven years) for the other side to make up their mind.

But in return for the economic benefits of access to the EU's single market,
non EU countries - such as Norway, have to accept the right of all EU citizens to live
and work in their country

That's not trading .... that's dictatorship, that's blackmail.

EU cooperation makes it easier to keep criminals and terrorists out of the
UK

So where did it go wrong with the hate preachers, the rapists, the sex groomers and
Abu Hanza et al.

The UK is part of the EU a group of 28 countries which exists to promote
economic security

LOL!! Tell that to the Greeks!!

The EU operates as a single free trading market without taxes between borders

No taxes ... But exorbitant membership fees to those that can afford them and
subsidising those that cant? A tax by any other name?

The UK has secured a special status in the EU. The UK has kept the £

Not for long if we stay in!!

We have insured that no UK powers can be transferred to the EU in the future
without a referendum.

What power?? the UK no longer has any power its all been
handed over.

The UK is a strong independent nation

Not at present, but it will be if we vote to leave. The truth of the matter is that the EU
needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

The UK's ability to gets its way on the issues the UK cares about

LOL!! From a link from a previous post ..." We the UK are in a voting minority
more often than any other member state. Attempts to block unwanted EU measures
have failed 72 out of 72 attempts since 1996!"

And from the back page >>>>The EU provides the UK with ....

A stronger economy

The UK is doing much better economically than any other member nation.

Providing security

Not doing very well themselves in the current situation?? I think our own agencies
along with USA and NATO are a safer bet for the UK.

I'll just sign of my post with some words from Christopher Columbus

You can never cross the ocean, until you have the courage to loose sight of the shore.

That's not trading that's dictating and blackmail.

EU cooperation makes it easier to keep criminals and terrorists out of the UK

Seems the EU has more problems than us in that area lately

The UK has secured a special status in the EU the UK has kept the £

Not for long if the vote is remain!

We have ensured that no UK powers can be transferred to the EU in the future without
a referendum

LOL!! the UK has no power within the EU

The UK is a strong independent nation. The UK's ability to get its way on the issues it
cares about

The UK will be strong and independent out side of the EU. Taken from a link in a previous post
"The UK is in a voting minority more often than any other member state and attempts to block
unwanted EU measures have failed 72 out of 72 attempts since 1996.
The EU needs The UK more than the UK needs the EU.

FROM THE BACK PAGE The government believes remaining in will

provide a stronger economy

Yet despite the economic situation world wide The UK and the £ are faring better than the
other EU economies.

Providing security

LOL!! The EU are having more problems in that area than the UK. Along with our own
agencies, the USA and NATO we will manage.

I will just sign off my post to those who are afraid of change with something Christopher Colombus
said>>>>

You can never cross the ocean until you have the courage to loose sight of the shore.

This is part of my previous post. I seem to be having a problem lol....

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: 83Liberty
Here is a must watch video with some well known people explaining the birth and eventual death of the EU.

Some people may call it a conspiracy theory but it seems very accurate and plausible to me.

There are some important issues raised in the video that need to be discussed if people have time to watch.
-Particularly interested about the EU wanting to turn the UK into 12 regions
- The similarities between the EU and the Soviet Union.

Excellent video should be a compulsory watch for all UK citizens!

The ^^^^^ underlined is already in progress.

And to top it all the 'official' stay pamphlet came through my letter box today.
Before I go into it. The main differences are as has been said many times over
the *stay* rely on maybe's and opinions whereas the *leave* seem
to have more facts at hand!

Four words I know everyone is familiar with but I want to emphasise and define,in
relation to the both sides of the argument.

Facts something actual existing confirmed and validated. Fact is the place
most people tend to think their opinions reside.

Opinions a belief, an impression, a view not based on fact or knowledge

Supposition ideas, notions, views, theory or guesswork?

Propaganda Biased, misleading information deliberately spread to promote
a point of view.

THE FRONT COVER OF THE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT LEAFLET.....

Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the EU is the best
decision for the UK.

Believes = an opinion/supposition.... not a fact It supposes the gov.
knows best? but does it? the politicians have their own agendas? don't they?

the EU countries buy 44% of what the UK sells abroad. Remaining in
the EU guarantees our full access to its single market. By contrast, leaving
creates uncertainty and risk

So the bigger 56% goes to countries outside of the EU? So it will be necessary to
make good the shortfall else where? (I was in sales!) The EU consists of
28 countries ... there are 196 countries world wide A BIG market
place?
Anyway it is hardly a forgone conclusion = again... opinion/supposition that the EU
will refuse to deal with a strong independent UK,*Made in Britain* was a guarantee
of quality and value? Can be again!
leaving creates uncertainty and risk Hmmn ...Propaganda?
AND EU and guarantee should never be in the same sentence.

Being inside the EU also makes it more attractive for companies to invest in
the UK

Who says so? The UK has more prestige than the EU. London is the biggest financial
centre not Germany or France.
We the UK as a nation needs to stop acting as the abused counterpart of the EU

Some argue little would change if we left the EU. But there are no guarantees
UK customers would keep these benefits if we left

There again only opinions/suppositions, propaganda. There are no guarantees
in life especially within the EU.

Voting to leave the EU would create years of uncertainty and potential
economic disruption

WHY???? Businesses separate part company go their own ways all of the time,
ANOTHER case of opinion/supposition and propaganda

The government judges it could result in 10 years of uncertainty as the UK unpicks
our relationship with the EU and reneogiates new arrangements with the EU and over
50 other countries around the world.

The government judges = opinion/supposition propaganda?
It is a business trading deal not a relationship, and the reason things take so long is
because there is too much bureaucracy and greasing of too many palms.

For example Canada's deal with the EU will give limited access for services,
it has so far been seven years in the making and is still not in force.

Does that surprise anyone? Too big, Too bloated, Too self important and Too much
bureaucracy... The UK will be leaner, fitter, and stronger when independent.
I mean, anyone who has their plans and finance in place for a business project would
be mad to hang around waiting (seven years) for the other side to make up their mind.

But in return for the economic benefits of access to the EU's single market,
non EU countries - such as Norway, have to accept the right of all EU citizens to live
and work in their country

That's not trading .... that's dictatorship, that's blackmail.

EU cooperation makes it easier to keep criminals and terrorists out of the
UK

So where did it go wrong with the hate preachers, the rapists, the sex groomers and
Abu Hanza et al.

The UK is part of the EU a group of 28 countries which exists to promote
economic security

LOL!! Tell that to the Greeks!!

The EU operates as a single free trading market without taxes between borders

No taxes ... But exorbitant membership fees to those that can afford them and
subsidising those that cant? A tax by any other name?

The UK has secured a special status in the EU. The UK has kept the £

Not for long if we stay in!!

We have insured that no UK powers can be transferred to the EU in the future
without a referendum.

What power?? the UK no longer has any power its all been
handed over.

The UK is a strong independent nation

Not at present, but it will be if we vote to leave. The truth of the matter is that the EU
needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

The UK's ability to gets its way on the issues the UK cares about

LOL!! From a link from a previous post ..." We the UK are in a voting minority
more often than any other member state. Attempts to block unwanted EU measures
have failed 72 out of 72 attempts since 1996!"

And from the back page >>>>The EU provides the UK with ....

A stronger economy

The UK is doing much better economically than any other member nation.

Providing security

Not doing very well themselves in the current situation?? I think our own agencies
along with USA and NATO are a safer bet for the UK.

I'll just sign of my post with some words from Christopher Columbus

You can never cross the ocean, until you have the courage to loose sight of the shore.

Agree with your analysis. For sure the EU needs us more than we need them. As does the IMF!

edit on 12-4-2016 by RP2SticksOfDynamite because: (no reason given)

Agree with your analysis. For sure the EU needs us more than we need them. As does the IMF!

edit on 12-4-2016 by RP2SticksOfDynamite because: (no reason given)

Agree with your analysis Eletheia. For sure the EU needs us more than we need them. As does the IMF!

The EU is apparently holding back a massive amount of legislation until after the referendum. This includes the centralization of the welfare state or 'social union'.

EU wants control of YOUR pension: Brussels' secret plan REVEALED

Look I know it's not relevant I never said it was.

I'm simply pointing out that the tactics being used by the establishment, Project Fear, was used in Scotland.

Everything that has happened so far in #EUref and will happen has already been used on Scots.

So I'm letting you all know to be aware that they will try every dirty trick in the book and even some not in the book to sway the vote.

You probably know that already, but if you don't, then mark my words by the time this is over you will be seething at the depths they will stoop to.

I hear Obama is scheduled to come over next week and stick his oar in. He will tell you to vote Remain.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: bigyin
IMF: Brexit could cause severe damage

Feel the love my friends lol

This is only the start

Good question and not sure. Might have something to do with the fact that Scotland probably doesn't want to be part of the UK never mind the EU. What does the first lady of Scotland want considering she represents 80%+ of Scots?

SNP policy is to Remain in EU

originally posted by: bigyin
Look I know it's not relevant I never said it was.
I'm simply pointing out that the tactics being used by the establishment, Project Fear, was used in Scotland.
Everything that has happened so far in #EUref and will happen has already been used on Scots.

Yes it can already be seen as happening.

So I'm letting you all know to be aware that they will try every dirty trick in the book and even some not in the book to sway the vote.
You probably know that already, but if you don't, then mark my words by the time this is over you will be seething at the depths they will stoop to.

Trouble is the sheep will scare very easily. The only winners are the fat cats.

I hear Obama is scheduled to come over next week and stick his oar in. He will tell you to vote Remain.

What does he know? He doesn't live here....He needs to mind his own business and

work on his own popularity I believe he's not that popular in his home territory

originally posted by: bigyin
Good video with sound arguments.
Couple of issues with it though.
There is no such thing as a British Constitution, so I don't know why they talk about it so much when it doesn't exist. The laws etc they refer to are different across the UK. English Law and Scottish Law are not the same.

NONE of that will make any difference if we remain in. We will just be a plus

so many hectares of land added to the EU.

Why oh why do 'English' productions use graphics like this one

Which tries to make out that England is so much bigger (superior) to the rest of the UK by using a southerly point of perspective. Even the BBC does this everyday with weather maps.

LOL!! Bigger is never necessarily by any means superior, but no matter

if we remain in we will be split into smaller units, and you will no longer be

Scots, Grainofsand will not be welsh, and I will not be English .... We will all

be little Europeans.

A true map of the UK using an overhead point of perspective would look like this

I'm only mentioning it because if you are looking for the support of the whole country in your endeavors to leave the EU it would be a good idea to treat all of the UK fairly.

Well none of that will matter when we are ALL Herr Europeans.

We now have Open Europe, a pro EU think tank, stating that Britain would still likely experience high levels of immigration if it were to leave the EU in June.

Guardian Link

Let me get this right. We stop every EU man and his dog coming here and start using the same system we use for skilled workers outside the EU .... and immigration is going to increase?

Specious or what?

a reply to: Morrad

Yes a load of sh1te

originally posted by: eletheia
We will all be little Europeans.

Cumbrian until I die marra! No pig porking tax dodging bureaucrat anywhere will take that away from me.

I don't pretend to understand financial issues bigger than balancing

my own budget.

But....

All of yesterday the scaremongering was being pushed on every news

programme.

The IMF has stated that If the UK leaves the EU it will cripple the

*world economy* made me think what were we being set up

for, in the blame game


Then I came across this link from another thread


www.zerohedge.com...


And things seemed to get clearer, as I see it, the EU economy is

crumbling and the poorer nations who are by far the majority,

and which includes Greece will never be able to service their debts.


The EU economy is failing, on top of which they have welcomed

countries worth of immigrants/refugees who they will need to

accommodate.


We have to get of this sinking ship ASAP.

a reply to: eletheia

Exactly, and as the UK economy is doing so well compared to other EU nations, we are being penalised with higher membership fees to help bail out these countries.

Then they want to allow countries like Turkey, with suspected ISIS links AND which a large percentage of isn't even in Europe, to join the Eurozone.

Osborne's budget could be vastly improved if we didn't have to pay what we do, and if we had better access to the worlds markets without the EU tying our hands.

originally posted by: woogleuk

Then they want to allow countries like Turkey, with suspected ISIS links AND which a large percentage of isn't even in Europe, to join the Eurozone.

Do they really *want to allow* Turkey?

OR

Has Turkey got them by the short and curlie's and in a position to

*black mail* them?

Following my previous post outlining the opinions of the *stay* lobby, as

outlined in the official "government pamphlet"


Today I find out that some of the information put out is downright misleading

at best, or perhaps an *opinion* or maybe even a down right lie.


The leave campaign are refuting some figures given in the official government

pamphlet (now there's a surprise )

From the pamphlet >>>>

Some may argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with the EU

because they want to keep access to our market. But the governments judgment

is that it would be much harder than that (

) LESS than 8% of EU exports come

to the UK.

The TRUTH is it is not 8% but 16% and that is the major share of their exports

even more than to the USA. The following is how the export percentages pan out,

and another reason that the EU needs The UK more than the UK needs the EU.


# 16% UK

# 15% USA

# 8% China

# 6% Switzerland

# 6% Russia

# 4% Turkey

Another fear tactic put to bed

Received my pro EU govt propaganda booklet today. It irks me that my taxes went towards it. It's bad enough when bbc lies out of its arse but this is just taking the p*ss really.

From Vote Leave:

The Electoral Commission has just announced that Vote Leave is the officially designated ‘Leave’ campaign for the referendum on 23 June. This is fantastic news – and it’s thanks to you.
The official campaign starts on Friday. We are holding events across the country this weekend and hope you can attend (details below).
In the 25 weeks since Vote Leave was launched, our campaign has brought together people from all walks of life – people from all parties and none, and many who’ve never taken part in a political campaign before.

Together, you have held hundreds of street stalls in every part of the United Kingdom, signed up thousands of new supporters, and delivered millions of leaflets. While the IN campaign has been raiding taxpayers’ money and accepting donations from big banks like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan to send their propaganda to every household, you have been holding street stalls, knocking on doors, and delivering leaflets telling people why the safer option is to Vote Leave on 23 June.
Your hard work over the past few months is one of the reasons the Electoral Commission has picked Vote Leave to be the official ‘Leave’ campaign.
Now that we have been selected, Vote Leave can spend up to £7 million. That’s less than the Remain campaign, who have also got £9.3 million of your money from the Government to spend on glossy leaflets to every household.
So the first thing you can do to help us win is to make a donation. Every penny you can spare will be spent by the official Leave campaign to combat this propaganda.
Time to come together – and WIN
There are lots of reasons to leave the EU, so it’s not surprising that there are a lot of groups campaigning for that outcome. Without them, and their hard work over many years, we wouldn’t be having this referendum – something all of us at Vote Leave pay tribute to.
Now we have just 71 days to win it. To do that, we have to work together. Many of you will have been campaigning with volunteers from Leave.EU, Grassroots Out, Better Off Out and other groups. In many cases, you’ve already been working together at a local level – and it’s been great to see so many people coming together for the common cause.

Now we need to work together even more closely. We have many more volunteers on our side of the referendum – with more energy and enthusiasm. We need to co-ordinate our efforts to make sure as many people as possible Vote Leave on 23 June.
Here’s what you can do right now to help us:

Sign up. If you haven’t already, please go to www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/organise to make sure we have all your contact details, and to tick all the ways you’re able to help the official Leave campaign in your area.
Spread the word. Please send this email to your friends, family, colleagues and neighbours and encourage them to sign up too – to reach every household by 23 June, we need to build a volunteer army the likes of which this country has never seen before.
Campaign online. If you’re on Facebook or Twitter, please support the campaign online and share our material. We also have accounts for the campaign in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
Put up a poster. Order a poster to display in your garden or window. We’ll send you them for free – please use this form to order one now.
Get your campaign kit. Visit our online shop to get all the campaign kit and merchandise you need – at www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/shop. You can also order leaflets to deliver in your area.

Please come to one of our rallies this weekend and find out more
This Friday marks the start of the official referendum campaign. We’re holding events across the UK, and we’d love for you to join us. There will be speakers from the worlds of politics and business as well as representatives from some of the many outreach groups which are also campaigning for us to leave the EU.
As well as hearing from some of the campaign’s most senior figures, you’ll be able to meet other activists from your local area. There will be Vote Leave staff and volunteers on hand to give you information about how you can get involved in the campaign, as well as the leaflets and resources you’ll need. Hundreds of supporters will be at each event, so sign up now to avoid disappointment.

Ipswich - Friday 15 April at 17:30
Llandudno - Friday 15 April at 19:15
Manchester (afternoon) - Friday 15 April at 14:00
Manchester (evening) - Friday 15 April at 18:00
Nottingham - Friday 15 April at 16:30
Plymouth - Friday 15 April at 17:00
Southampton - Friday 15 April at 17:30
Birmingham - Saturday 16 April at 16:00
Newcastle - Saturday 16 April at 11:00
Oxford - Saturday 16 April at 17:30
Leeds - Saturday 16 April at 17:30
Cardiff - Saturday 16 April at 15:00
Glasgow - Saturday 16 April at 10:30

If there’s not one near you this weekend, don’t worry – we’ll be visiting every part of the UK over the next ten weeks! You can keep up with what’s going on in your area by checking our map at
www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...

The time to act is NOW
There are just 10 weeks until the referendum. That’s not a lot of time to reach the millions of people who have yet to make up their mind about how they’ll vote. Just ten weekends of leafleting, door-knocking and campaigning.
Help us win – sign up now

This referendum is our once-in-a-generation chance to take back control. If we Vote Leave on 23 June, we can stop sending £350 million to Brussels every week and spend it on our priorities like the NHS. We can take back control of our laws, our borders, and our security. We can stop the European Court overruling our elected representatives, and make sure we’re governed by people we can vote out when we disagree with them.
That’s something worth fighting for – and, with your help, we will win.
Thank you,
Gisela Stuart, Labour MP for Birmingham Edgbaston and Chair of Vote Leave
Michael Gove, Conservative MP for Surrey Heath and Co-Convenor of the Vote Leave campaign committee
P.S. Even if you’ve signed up already, please make sure we have all your details and know all the ways you’re willing to help by going to www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/organise.
www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...
Thank you!
Vote Leave · Vote Leave, Westminster Tower, 3 Albert Embankment, Lambeth SE1 7SP, United Kingdom

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
Received my pro EU govt propaganda booklet today. It irks me that my taxes went towards it. It's bad enough when bbc lies out of its arse but this is just taking the p*ss really.

Post it back with "Lies" written in black felt on it.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Maybe Vote Leave should arrange a mass burning of these bs leaflets at each venue.