Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Sure.

Myths usually start by observing or misobserving nature. That's why its universal.

Kev

a reply to: jacygirl

Thank you Jacy, you raise a good point. Did I just see it that way because it suited me best to do that? I don't know - yes, possibly, it could easily be that, but on the other hand I've never since met a moth who behaved like that! So I'm only left with two choices (because I did notice it) - dismiss/ignore it or accept/believe that it had meaning. Do I prefer to live in a universe that responds to my guilt and sorrow? Well, yeah! I do. So for that story, yes it can be my interpretation to make sense of a horrible situation.
But what about the day my mother saw two Jehovah's witnesses (black hats, black coats) come to the door? She was getting dressed and saw them coming up to the house. She said to my father that they were coming, and he said he hadn't noticed them, but get rid of them (Catholic ). So she went to the door, ready to tell them to go but there was no one there. She checked the street - no, no one.
So she went in and her and my father had a conversation about where they had gone, and he reiterated that he hadn't even seen them in the first place.

And then the phone rang and she learned that her brother had drowned. Premonition? Did she know her brother was dead telepathically and this was her brain's way of conveying the message? Or were these things 'real'?

So, in a long-winded way, are we supposed to be interpreting these messages as we do? Do they mean what we think they do or are we so complicated that we refuse to accept reality as it is. Or not? It's so confusing.

a reply to: Baddogma

The shaman knows there is no such thing as free will, while magicians ("reality creator's") are grossly deluded.

Tell me....does your spleen consider you a 'plasma patasite'? Do you consider your spleen a plasma parasite?

God = Piss Ant.

Please explain why this is true.

Thanks

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

Whatever we interpret is wrong....as we lack total information.

But being wrong is often fun....(at least for someone) which is probably the Only point.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

Well...do they mean what we think they do?
Or, do we refuse to accept reality.

I think that us believing...is a survival instinct. I think that perhaps at that time (under those circumstances) your brain/heart knew that it needed you to believe. To continue on.
People really can be paralyzed with grief.

I also think we can use this against ourselves though.
It can be self-destructive, and we can believe that we are constantly being reminded/shown how awful/bad we are, and how much we deserve to suffer.
That sounds like a brain/heart that is no longer in survival mode, and is crashing & burning.

Does that make sense?

a reply to: jacygirl

All gods are merely accumulated ignorance.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

It's funny, because I remember clearly saying to the moth (like some sort of insectophile loonball) 'come back when you're better'.
I think he did too, I had another son after that.

No, no, you didn't hurt your wee one at all, you didn't provoke that. Maybe you knew he wouldn't stay this time? Maybe you'll get to meet him in a different way? And no, I'm not big on coincidence either. It's too 'tidy' and we're not tidy creatures on the whole.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Me too! There are stories in myth that have travelled for centuries, for good reason, and we would be wise to consider why and what the message was/is.

a reply to: jacygirl

You make perfect sense.
I think - think - that it's more than that. I think that we share this universe with unknowns (which is my best definition at the moment) and that as we turn to face them, they appear in greater magnitude.
And I think this is where the notion that you never thank fairies comes from; if you thank them, you forget them and put them out of your mind. They (allegedly) don't want this, they want to be thought of, so you must never thank them or they get angry. Or so the stories go.

It can be self-destructive, and we can believe that we are constantly being reminded/shown how awful/bad we are, and how much we deserve to suffer. That sounds like a brain/heart that is no longer is survival mode, and is crashing & burning.

That sounds awful, more like a hell than a life. It sounds like cognitive filtering, fitting our preconceptions, rather than finding a white feather where it shouldn't be which is unusual and is asking to be noticed, I suppose. But yes, you do make sense, and as others have said it does depend on what you choose to believe.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Baddogma

The shaman knows there is no such thing as free will, while magicians ("reality creator's") are grossly deluded.

Tell me....does your spleen consider you a 'plasma patasite'? Do you consider your spleen a plasma parasite?

God = Piss Ant.
Please explain why this is true.
Thanks
Kev

I wonder if life has freedom of will, I mean, we can choose right or wrong, to look both ways, or to not, to picking Jesus or Satan. Blue Pill, Red Pill, etc.

Would it be God that wouldn't have free will and is the subject too ours, for all things that God should of done, or shouldn't have allowed with all the power of all creation and clairvoyance.

If so, wouldn't that make God a childs toy, rather then the authority of the Heavens, or Cosmos?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The shaman knows there is no such thing as free will, while magicians ("reality creator's") are grossly deluded.

Then why bother doing anything at all if no free will (not that I disagree, sucky as I personally find that whole "Fate" thang)?

Are Shamans then just 'reading the script' as given, playing their role, knowing time and alternate results are all resolved "way up there?" Should we all just acquiesce to our/some "higher power" heh?

And after posing that question to my spleen, I only got a faint pressure that might've been a response or might just be a fart later down the road... and the lil' cancer in my lung had something to add, but all I felt was a pain (and to clarify, no diagnosis, just an educated/hypochondriac sourced guess)... so the sets and subsets that can be perceived as "me" don't really seem very aware of the "higher subsets" they may be a part of... just as the "higher subset" (me) isn't really aware of the individuated parts, anyway.

Where was/am I? God=Pissant ... why is this true?

Perhaps because the concept of any "God" remains unaffected by such concepts and just is... and it's little spleens and cancers can fuss and shout and oh well?

a reply to: Specimen

Absolutely brilliant.

You understand God.

Kev

a reply to: _damon

humans today have become a reduced version of what they were before, as if they decided at one point in time to shut their eyes closed to one primordial aspect of reality and kept doing it until it became the new normality, generations after generations, a world where what their eyes perceive is so rejected and dismissed that the sense itself cease to exist.

Sounds a lot like what the ancients called: "The Fall"...

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And just think...

A long time ago if a huge whirlpool opened up and sunk a ship, people might claim some sea god, or some sea monster did it.

It might as well have been to those folks, at that time. They didn't have any other alternative explanations for what they saw happen. To them, it was some kind of god or creature exacting wrath...and it became part of the collective unconscious as their stories were told.

Why can't other people grasp that????
Why do they insist on believing stories that were written by other people?

That storyline is the opening of "Star Trek Into Darkness" movie. Kirk and Bones are on "Nibiru" running away from the barely evolved Natives. The ship comes out of the water and raises into the sky...then flies away.
The Natives start drawing the ship's shape into the dirt.
And so it begins...a god is born.

Because those stories had meaning, had value, had potentially life-saving qualities. There's a story I love about the Stoorworm, who was the worst dragon Scotland had ever known (I think he was meteor, but that's a different thread. In fact, it's probably in about thirty other threads )

The vehicle, the wrappings around the story are tacked on, changed over the years but the kernel - the meaning - remains. So, in the Stoorworm story, his eyes are knocked out of his head and go spinning into the sea at Jura and they create the Corryvreckan whirlpool. And we think, well there are no dragons, our ancestors were stupid. But it was crucial, if heading out near Jura to know that there was a whirlpool there.



So the story carries on, because we need our children to remember this. It is our job, I suppose, to extract the meaning from the trappings. That's my view, anyway.

a reply to: Specimen
I was going to say "wow, I never articulated it so darned well... or even thought about it from that angle, lookit that!"

I guess "brilliant, you understand god" works, too!

Huh... (looks off into the aethers) HUH!?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You understand God.

Whereas, thankfully for all concerned, it's abundantly clear that you don't have the foggiest.

I still can't understand how anyone can believe anything you say. Spleen plasma parasites? Is that a variation on your centre-of-attention, solipsist theory, that the experiences in the Spirit are nothing but ethereal tapeworms?

For the sake of humanity, try to limit the amount of nonsense that spews from your spleen.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Specimen

Huh... (looks off into the aethers) HUH!?

Pffffft! It's fine, there are still a million other things we haven't figured out yet. Doesn't really change anything, lol.
There's still more to ponder.

a reply to: jacygirl

Heh... yeah... and de-volving? Yes, most assuredly... mostly, anyway... I'm sure there are some lovely, evolving systems chugging along as always, but humans in general, oh my, for whatever reason/reasons YES!

DEVO (for instance) isn't just a beloved pop music act from long ago, but I found I agreed with much of what they were attempting to convey. De-evolution is a well pondered, ofttimes relevant view.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Well, it must be stressed that his views are personally taken with several grains of sodium, and I've found he agrees and stresses that very fact, but I still find a lot to ponder in his assertions/suggestions and I haven't yet found anyone who knows what's up with god/GOD in general... though a whole lot are pretty sure they really do know.

Feel free to politely squash or disembowel such concepts... key word "politely."

a reply to: Baddogma

Oh geez...you agreed with me. I felt stupid, and deleted it. (hahaha....)

I feel bad posting a lot, like I 'bring a lot of hot pink' into the thread, but while I'm taking it seriously...I can't help my sense of humour coming out.

Thanks for 'getting' what I meant. Really!!

a reply to: jacygirl

If you are one of the gifted few who can bring 'hot pink' into a thread, then you should be proud! A lot of folk just bring gloom or misery everywhere they go, so we should treasure you and be thankful you're here to add some colour and vibrancy.