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Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

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posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: jacygirl

Hey Jacy, BD seems busy in real life for the moment and is letting his "homework" pile up. Would you enjoy the "usual KPB treatment" discussion with your topic of interest? I'd really enjoy seeing why this topic interests you so, how you may or may not have struggled with it, what learning "the answer" might mean to you.. or I could just write some boring sheiss of a post on my blog about it.

I'd rather "play first" then write it up afterwards.

Are you game?

Kev




posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: jacygirl

Hey Jacy, BD seems busy in real life for the moment and is letting his "homework" pile up. Would you enjoy the "usual KPB treatment" discussion with your topic of interest?


Are you game?

Kev


Am I game? I am SO game!!!


I'm a caregiver to a mama-in-law with Alzheimers/dementia. I have to go do some 'caring', but will be back later on!

I need to log off for a bit. Really looking forward to this discussion...and still committed to this thread!!!
Thank you,
jacy



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: beansidhe

Oh yes, jack it baby!

I love me my ancestors... and know far too little about them, despite some college level courses. (should likely not qualify that I was kidding with "college level courses" )



Consider it jacked.



To relevantly threadjack though, and to respond more fully to GBP/JPY, stories of humans as animals are as old as the hills and I think (although someone can maybe help me out) that they are cross cultural. So lots of Celtic folklore talks about people shapeshifting. A good example is the selkies or seal people in Scotland. They were said to be seals who would come up onto the beach and drop their pelt. They could then transform into naked young women and live on land as mortals (once they'd nicked some clothes).

So the idea is of being able to cross 'realms' which everyone is familiar with, but the more of these kind of myths I read, the more I think they refer to reincarnation and not shapeshifting.

Take Ceridwen:


Ceridwen found out and began to chase Gwion. Gwion first changed into a hare, and Ceridwen changed into a greyhound. The boy became a fish, and the woman an otter. He turned into a dove, she turned into a hawk. Finally Gwion transformed into a tiny grain of wheat, hiding with many other grains on a barn floor. Ceridwen transformed into a black hen and pecked up all the grains, including Gwion.


These stories make more sense if you think of them as reincarnating or as being thought of as being reincarnated (!) by an observer. So what? Well, GBP/JPY mentioned that his family came back as animals and this belief is still, thousands of years later, prevalent.Why? Why has this myth persisted when others have become lost in the mists of time?

I'll tell you my moth story, which I might have told before on another thread. Some years ago I found out I was pregnant - I must have been around 6 weeks. Every night I took my dog outside before he went to bed and I sat on the door step. For three or four nights in a row a white moth crawled around beside me, walking in circles and never flying. It looked unwell (although I'm no mothvet) just not quite right. There was nothing I could do to help it, it just...was.
The next night it was there again, as expected, but as I sat down it flew upwards. It flew away.
That night I had a miscarriage.
Coincidence? Or a message that all wasn't well and now it was? That the baby had been ill? That's how I interpreted it - because of the myths or were experiences like that the reasons for the myths in the first place?



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: beansidhe

Everyone has a different ego filter they
Are unconsciously feeding....the more
'spiritual' and 'egoless' you get, the worse
The phenomena becomes.

All the stealth egos fight each other,
So no consensus is possible.

There Is a more metaphysical
Answer but it may be a year
Before BD and I discuss it.

Your theory is desired too of
Course.

Kev


There's maybe another reason for lack of consensus, which I was thinking about today as I drove about, which has to do with 'legitimate authority' for want of a better phrase.

If Stephen Hawkings tells us about quantum er, stuff, we believe him and accept his viewpoint because he has legitimate authority on the subject. We, on the whole, accept his degrees and diplomas, we accept that the University he learned at taught a good course, we trust that he is qualified to make such judgements.
There is no cross-cultural equivalent for spookiness. Nobody has uncontested legitimate authority on the subject.

Oh, and a Celtic beast to keep you going:





posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

You are 100% correct!

And that's because of the cultural
Tribalism and ego filtering issues.

When you break it down, cultural
Tribalism is just another form of
Ego filtering functioning in a
Different part of the brain.

Love the pics!



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

That's really a Great story

I can't wait to discuss both myth and cave paintings.

Kev



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

As usual, the 'fun' comes to a screaming halt and I have to really, really think ... sigh... a full on 'thanks' for the dose of heady contemplation, tho! So...

"[A bazillion layers up is "their god" = "our god"?

Would it make sense for it to be otherwise? Yes or No.]"

No, not really, as far as making sense otherwise, to me... thus why I termed it that way!

It brings to mind conflicts between concerns down here in the swirly mental soup... that I touched on when critiquing the "think it so" model of reality. Is it a mental arm wrestling match... a "greater plan/reality" ...or what?

Anyway, please do proceed with tugging the leash, good sir.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Fascinating... thank you... and sad.. .depending on the circumstances...

one of the "best" things that ever "happened to me" was a miscarriage by someone I shouldn't have been consorting with in the first place (but was really, really, really pretty), and I thought really, really hard to the little life one night, explaining that this circumstance wasn't too cool, and to please go away and try again later.

Long story short, hours later... miscarriage. As you said, coincidence? Well, there's arguably no such thing, heh. I like to think it wasn't "black magic" and I didn't hurt the little guy, but that I was heard and we came to a mutual agreement, but ... buuut... ?



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

This leads us to this truth (eventually):

"The Universe" does not prefer gods (even 'god') over dead or tortured animals.

So if our philosophies disagree with the Universe, there's no doubt who will win.

If we think otherwise, it's clear that we are wrong
And must admit to knowing basically nothing.

So followup question:

Is it desirable to be one with the Universe
And how does one attain it?

And....please talk to me about the difference between magicians and Shaman.

Kev



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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You guys know that Thor is real, right?

Yeah, I said it. Thor is real.

How? Belief. Imagination.

All possibilities and potentials exist. There's even a Star Wars reality out there. If something can be imagined, it can be real. Then, there are things that exist we can't imagine. That shows you the scope of true infinite possibilities.

So when someone imagined Thor he was born. The more people that worshiped him, believed in him, told stories and drew pictures of him -- the more "real" he became, we gave him life in a sense.

Somewhere, in some alternate reality is a very real Thor. Actually, there are an infinite variations of Thor. Some look like the guy in the Marvel movies, some like the mythic paintings.

What we imagine and put our belief into becomes part of our conscious awareness. People back in ancient times who believed in Thor really believed that lightning strike was his work. He was as real to them as anything else. What's "real" and "not real" is all subjective and dependent upon a various factors...education and culture being among them.

I mean, as a child Santa was "real" you could swear you even thought you heard footsteps on the roof at night. He was as "real" to you then as anything else. As you grew and attained more contradictory information, that belief died and the reality of Santa did as well.

So, keep that in mind. Things exist because we believe they do. They are part of our experience because we believe and expect them to be there.

You never see an ardent life-long atheist become possessed by a demon and have to bring in a Catholic priest to exorcise him. To the atheist guy, that's not a realistic possibility that exits to him. It's not a part of his reality.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Some beings beliefs are very potent. Other beings beliefs are dead minimal....of course they don't necessarily agree with that!

Also I feel that the Everett Wheeler many world's interpretation to be partially in error..

But yes, your point has some validity IMHO.

Kev



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Potent.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

That was a great read, beansidhe!

Isn't it amazing, that depending on our frame of mind (and circumstances)...we can believe something is either a 'wink' or a 'slap' from the Universe?
Was the moth a messenger, or did beansidhe interpret it as such, so as to not feel guilt?
Did Baddogma cause something to occur, or is that just guilt?
The Ego...the mind....it tries to cover it's ass sometimes.

(Apologies, I'm suffering a bit of writer's block due to extreme stress in real life, so I'm not feeling confident with my words lately.)

I have always believed that people come back as animals, and my present rescue cat is no exception. Poor thing doesn't seem to quite have the hang of being a cat yet.

I get a random white feather on occasion, in places they shouldn't be. To me they are messages from people who have passed on. I accept that it's my responsibility to interpret the message, lol...same as the moth.

(Stopping now, because I'm far too interested in too much, and Kev is likely rolling his eyes!)
jacy



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And just think...

A long time ago if a huge whirlpool opened up and sunk a ship, people might claim some sea god, or some sea monster did it.

It might as well have been to those folks, at that time. They didn't have any other alternative explanations for what they saw happen. To them, it was some kind of god or creature exacting wrath...and it became part of the collective unconscious as their stories were told.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Okee-dokee... first, agreed on the God/god/doesn't matter as we're piss ant peons in the humongous scheme of things... circumstances may vary, though, as we DO seem to have more power than is generally thought "down here".

Now the Shaman/Magician difference.

I'm not sure I have enough info to address it... as most of my info is book learnin' and guess work, but... as I see it, the Shaman embraces the trickster aspect and "goes with the flow" with nudges, rather than definitive inflexibility.

The Magician is more "forceful" with commanding spirits this and bending wills that.. .also there's the fact Magicians tend to be well-to-do or in groups with more cultural power, and shamans aren't attired or equipped as nicely and tend to come from cultures getting stomped on.

Your turn...

oops... eta for desirable to be "one with the universe" ...as I see it, NO 'cause that "oneness" is our likely state when not individuated anyway, so why hurry up the death state? That's assuming we're here playing for some reason... even if that reason is "it's sometimes fun, always educational."

edit on 1/27/2016 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
You guys know that Thor is real, right?

Yeah, I said it. Thor is real.

How? Belief. Imagination.

You'd be surprise on that.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And just think...

A long time ago if a huge whirlpool opened up and sunk a ship, people might claim some sea god, or some sea monster did it.

It might as well have been to those folks, at that time. They didn't have any other alternative explanations for what they saw happen. To them, it was some kind of god or creature exacting wrath...and it became part of the collective unconscious as their stories were told.


Why can't other people grasp that????
Why do they insist on believing stories that were written by other people?

That storyline is the opening of "Star Trek Into Darkness" movie. Kirk and Bones are on "Nibiru" running away from the barely evolved Natives. The ship comes out of the water and raises into the sky...then flies away.
The Natives start drawing the ship's shape into the dirt.
And so it begins...a god is born.


edit on 27-1-2016 by jacygirl because: nm



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:39 PM
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Is the Shaman/Magician question, a question of intent?

One is aiming to assist, while the other is aiming to deceive?
(assist may not be the correct word)



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: Tulpa




What if we didn't know we were performing a ritual? From my reading INTENT is very important. If one powerfully focussed mind can produce results, what happens when thousands of randomly wandering ones get together?


Hmm, very interesting.



posted on Jan, 27 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: jacygirl

The Universe basically doesn't care whether I an 100% right or 100% wrong.

So roll my eyes all you want.

And I experience and/or cause synchronicities too...heck I got captured in a Djinn bottle once
By some middle East Imams....then They emailed a friend of mine to discuss it.

But this kind Of talk is generally harmful for superstitious people who can't break free of cultural contamination.



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