Bernie Sanders Goes After Trump Supporters

a reply to: Vector99

I wish I got that. Never seen that option available to me

a reply to: MystikMushroom

It's in the same proposal this thread is about.

a reply to: Aazadan

Like what? Make a plan, figure out where we're overspending.

Hmm, not a bad idea.

take them to your politicians and get them fixed

they currently are the problem, NOT the solution.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Not when they get a 25,000 standard deduction it doesn't.

Yes it does. If you make 50k a year paying 15% on 25k of that puts you at $46,250 or a 7.5% rate. If someone is making millions they can pay $100,000 or $200,000 with no impact on their lives. They might be paying a bigger percentage but after about $2 million more income doesn't actually improve your quality of life. Note that this is also the logic behind progressive tax rates, someone at the top rate can pay 35% much more easily than someone at the bottom can pay 15%.

Also, if your middle class is paying an effective rate of 7.5% I have to ask, just how much money are you expecting the government to spend? At that type of tax rate we probably wouldn't even be able to sustain a $1.75 trillion budget right now. $1.75 trillion doesn't even cover our current mandatory spending (assuming we spend $0 on defense).

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Aazadan
they currently are the problem, NOT the solution.

Then who do you think would implement changes? It's going to be a politician who does it.

a reply to: Aazadan

Have you looked at the proposal at all? It lowers taxes for everyone. Right now someone making 50,000 pays 25% with a 6,300 standard deduction. The tax rate for that individual would drop to 20% with 4x the standard deduction, how is that more again?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

What is "skilled labor"?

If someone that can't read or speak English, and makes it across the border by Coyote (usually starving and half-dead from dehydration without even shoes on their feet) -- can do the job of someone with a high school degree or some college...it doesn't seem to be very skilled to me.

You can teach anyone to pretty much do any repetitive task. Skilled labor in my mind would be wiring an office building to code, welding pipe for the oil industry, plumbing...all of those require certificates and sometimes union memberships, and hundreds of hours of on-the-job experience -- those things make it a lot harder for someone to "pick up and do".

I don't think painting, cleaning pools, doing oil changes, tarring roofs, parking lot attendants, line operators, or building rock retaining walls count as "skilled labor".

No, illegal immigrants are not taking our skilled labor away, they are taking the unskilled, low paying, dirty, physically demanding jobs away from Americans.

One thing I will say, if we stepped up on illegal immigration, most restaurants Americans love to frequent would go out of business.

a reply to: Vector99

Why would americans wish to do that???

You must categorize everyone else as stupid idolisers of the rich, which we're not!

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

What is "skilled labor"?

If someone that can't read or speak English, and makes it across the border by Coyote (usually starving and half-dead from dehydration without even shoes on their feet) -- can do the job of someone with a high school degree or some college...it doesn't seem to be very skilled to me.

You can teach anyone to pretty much do any repetitive task. Skilled labor in my mind would be wiring an office building to code, welding pipe for the oil industry, plumbing...all of those require certificates and sometimes union memberships, and hundreds of hours of on-the-job experience -- those things make it a lot harder for someone to "pick up and do".

I don't think painting, cleaning pools, doing oil changes, tarring roofs, parking lot attendants, line operators, or building rock retaining walls count as "skilled labor".

No, illegal immigrants are not taking our skilled labor away, they are taking the unskilled, low paying, dirty, physically demanding jobs away from Americans.

One thing I will say, if we stepped up on illegal immigration, most restaurants Americans love to frequent would go out of business.

1) Wiring an office building to code....check...Illegal Immigrants do that. Many here, are even LICENSED CONTRACTORS..
2) Plumbing...check...in fact MANY plumbers, especially ON CALL emergency plumbers here...are not here legally.
3) Pipe Welders....check. I am Ultrasonic Engineer who spent 4 years in a steel mill. Pipefitters have MANY Illegal Immigrant laborers and workers. And many of them ex convicts....check again


Painting....I was a finish painter for years. Illegals took that too. Used to pay $15 an hour...."UNSKILLED" now...to those of your ilk

Oil Changes and Lubes were a skill....not anymore...to those like you.

Roof working...was a highly paid skill. Used to net Apprentices $20+ an hour...I was there...in the 90s...working with them. Not anymore Bud.

MASONS....used to make HUGE money. Not anymore. Only the contractors do.

Like I said, you don't know what you're speaking of Bud.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Aazadan

Have you looked at the proposal at all? It lowers taxes for everyone. Right now someone making 50,000 pays 25% with a 6,300 standard deduction. The tax rate for that individual would drop to 20% with 4x the standard deduction, how is that more again?

Someone making $50,000 does not pay 25%. What we have is called a graduated income tax or a progressive tax. You essentially pay more on each extra dollar you earn. It's broken down into brackets.

With a $6300 deduction you have $43,700 in adjusted gross income. On the first $9,225 of that you pay 10% or $922.50. On your earnings from $9,226 to $37,450 you pay 15% or $4233.60. On your earnings from $37,451 to $90,750 you pay 25% which would be $1562.50. Your total tax is $6,708.60 or 13.42%, a far cry from 25%.

Now, lets look at Trumps plan, that would drop you to paying 7.5%. But if your tax rate is reduced, that means government spending is also reduced. There is no fat left to trim from the budgets. What will happen, is what happens every time we pass a tax cut. A flat tax gets added in somewhere else, sometimes it's a sales tax, other times it's a gas tax, and so on. That income must still be generated. If it cannot be generated then the responsibility for that program will be given to the states. If the feds can no longer spend say $50 billion maintaining roads, they'll give that to the states and each state will tax you their $1 billion share and you'll still pay the tax. You simply shift who is taxing you.

What happens in the majority of those cases is we lose part of the advantage of an economy of scale and the total cost across the nation goes up.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

No I agree with just cutting taxes and government spending in general. That's what this proposes while also proposing eliminating tax breaks for corporations. So sure, they pay less percent, but can't write off everything under the sun to avoid paying taxes anyways. Why do you think millionaires ALWAYS form their own charity funds? Donations are a tax write off, so rather than pay taxes why the hell not donate to your own charity!

This would stop that.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

And furthermore, all those jobs you deem 'unskilled' paid something before. They at LEAST gave college kids an entry level job, or young adults a job for work experience.

But isn't it funny how the more a WAGE degrades in a job, the more it becomes 'unskilled'. Soon, if enough NURSES come in from the Philippines (ALREADY HAPPENING) and saturating the nurse job market...it too..might be considered "unskilled' to people like you

Only a matter of time I guess.

You can't fool everyone Donald, even if you do scream it at them! lol

Sanders says Trump is 'getting nervous'

“It appears that Mr. Trump is getting nervous that working families are catching on that his policies represent the interests of the billionaire class against almost everyone else. He refuses to support raising the minimum wage,” Sanders said in a statement. “He believes wages are too high and he wants to provide hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the very richest families in America. That’s not an agenda that ‘makes America great.’”

source

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

How are the companies employing these illegal immigrants allowed to stay in business? Are these companies falsifying their records to show they have legal and certified contractors that have passed the appropriate tests?

If not, then I think we ought to crack down on the hiring policies of these companies. If there aren't companies willing to hire illegals, the illegals won't have an incentive to come here.

Building a wall is a ridiculous, over-the-top, clown/carnival-like spectacle; meant to appeal to people's fear.

How about we just hold employers accountable, and make the job market undesirable for anyone wanting to hop the border? That seems to be a much cheaper route -- and saving money is something all conservatives ought to be all about, right?

a reply to: Aazadan

Again have you looked at the proposal? EVERY category for the individual is lower. UP TO 54,000 it's a 10% rate. 54,001 becomes 20%. So how is it someone would pay more if every rate on every dollar is lower under this proposal. I'm not getting it.

Oh, and the FIRST $29,000, ZERO percent tax.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I see it all the time, none of those jobs deserve a "living wage" ... fast food, pool cleaning, parking lot attendant...all of those pay minimum wage as they are "entry level". According to many GOP/Republican/conservatives, those jobs were never meant to support someone.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

How are the companies employing these illegal immigrants allowed to stay in business? Are these companies falsifying their records to show they have legal and certified contractors that have passed the appropriate tests?

If not, then I think we ought to crack down on the hiring policies of these companies. If there aren't companies willing to hire illegals, the illegals won't have an incentive to come here.

Building a wall is a ridiculous, over-the-top, clown/carnival-like spectacle; meant to appeal to people's fear.

How about we just hold employers accountable, and make the job market undesirable for anyone wanting to hop the border? That seems to be a much cheaper route -- and saving money is something all conservatives ought to be all about, right?

You're speaking of California. Where we enact laws that SHIELD them from telling their Legal status, even IF they lie about in on applications. We allow them drivers licenses, INSURANCE, licenses in business, resellers licenses, and many speacialized permits because we CANNOT ask them about status.

If they apply for anything, we have to take them at their word and cannot verify. Because we are a non verify state, and IF they were discovered, our State laws make it so we can't do anything.

It's not the employers, it's the LAWMAKERS and those that claim 'Sanctuary" States and Cities.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Well, yeah. Trump is a billionaire. He's never for one day in his privileged life wondered how he was going to pay a bill or where his next meal was coming from.

He doesn't (and hasn't) even remotely exist in the same reality as the bulk of America. Let me say that one more time for clarity:

Trump doesn't live in the same reality as the majority of America.

He doesn't and can't possibly care for the middle class. If he does, it is only as a means to an end to enrich himself and acquire more zeros on his balance sheet.

He's a rich person, trying to pretend he's some kind of hero of the people by hiding his wealth behind his back. He hasn't got a clue what the middle class has to deal with. At least some politicians didn't inherit money and come from well-off parents.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I see it all the time, none of those jobs deserve a "living wage" ... fast food, pool cleaning, parking lot attendant...all of those pay minimum wage as they are "entry level". According to many GOP/Republican/conservatives, those jobs were never meant to support someone.

To a college kid trying to work his way through school? They USE to.

To a young kid trying to gain work experience, they USE to.

How old are you? Do you even remember those days? I use to leave High School to go to my job when I was 15-16, as a valet, who made $20 an hour in tips....now ALL are taken by foreign nationals

Do you even remember those times? I have to ask.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If a guy can't read English or barley speak it...I'd think that would be a pretty good indicator that the guy is an illegal alien.

"Oh woe is me, the law says I can't verify ... that guy can't even read but I guess he's a legal resident, I mean he must have just failed out of school!"

How about employers take a little initiative and be a little more selective?

Employers don't have to hire these people if they don't want to. Generally, the most qualified people are the ones that are supposed to get the job. Are you telling me that the most qualified people applying for these "highly skilled jobs" are illegal immigrants who can't speak or read our language fluently, with no prior experience in that field of work?