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Bernie Sanders Goes After Trump Supporters

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posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

You're right, those jobs DID pay enough to survive on. Now they don't. Pay hasn't kept up with inflation. The American's earning potential has stayed stagnant while the richest people have seen their profit margins explode.

Illegal immigrants have nothing to do with stagnant wages compared to inflation....not one iota.




posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom


Illegal immigrants have nothing to do with stagnant wages

They have everything to do with it when they will do the same job for less pay.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Vector99

Really ???

More Mexicans are leaving US than are entering


Pew found that slightly more than 1 million Mexicans and their families, including American-born children, left the US for Mexico from 2009 to 2014. During the same time, 870,000 Mexicans came to the US, resulting in a net flow to Mexico of 140,000.



“This is something that we’ve seen coming,” Lopez said. “It’s been almost 10 years that migration from Mexico has really slowed down.”


source

So there's less illegal immigrants and wages are still stagnant, so much for your unfounded hypothesis that:




They have everything to do with it when they will do the same job for less pay.


That dog don't hunt!



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Ya it is only class warfare when you want to tax the wealthy more...

But if you want to talk about how it's all the fault of the poor and that we need to cut this program or that one it isn't..

/shrug.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: MystikMushroom


Illegal immigrants have nothing to do with stagnant wages

They have everything to do with it when they will do the same job for less pay.


The problem has been going on a lot longer than the current "immigration crisis" that the television tells you to be terrified over.

If there was a cause/effect relationship between wages and illegal immigration, it can't be found...wages have been stagnant far longer than this current immigration issue.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

They go back once they make enough money to retire. Jobs that paid MORE money 20 years ago (electrician, painter, plumber, construction) pay LESS today BECAUSE of illegal immigration. Don't know what else to attribute that to other than someone that shouldn't have been here did it for less money, I don't need an article to see the sun come up every day either.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If a guy can't read English or barley speak it...I'd think that would be a pretty good indicator that the guy is an illegal alien.

"Oh woe is me, the law says I can't verify ... that guy can't even read but I guess he's a legal resident, I mean he must have just failed out of school!"

How about employers take a little initiative and be a little more selective?

Employers don't have to hire these people if they don't want to. Generally, the most qualified people are the ones that are supposed to get the job. Are you telling me that the most qualified people applying for these "highly skilled jobs" are illegal immigrants who can't speak or read our language fluently, with no prior experience in that field of work?


I've tried to EDUCATE you on Illegal Immigration. Not the stuff you read on blogs or bumper stickers or by platitudes coming out of mouths of politicians.

I have more experience in this than most, in fact I've been in the middle of it most of my life.

You keep coming back at me with "What about this and that" and injecting very tired and debunked fallacies about it.

And lastly, by your refusal to speak about your age and experience, I'm getting the picture that you are young and just don't know what you're speaking of but pretending to be knowledgeable by parroting talking points.

I could rebut your posts all day and you would just come back with another "but but but" talking point. People like you refuse to see the truth of Illegal Immigration, and those of you that have no REAL LIFE experience with it, tout it the loudest as 'harmless' and 'benign'.

I'm gonna go now because I can't cure blindness, especially with someone that refuses to listen to the WORDS of what someone who KNOWS the situation...is telling them.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

nevermind, was a different one I read in the past.
edit on 27-12-2015 by Vector99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad

So the only people in this country illegally are Mexicans? How racist.

I thought most of the children who came here last year came from countries like Guatemala and other central American countries further south of Mexico, and then you have plenty of others who come here illegally. The only thing Mexico has to do with it is help maintain an incredibly porous border because the drug cartels find it convenient.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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Bernie is borderline economically illiterate. I believe that he has America's best interests at heart and that he means the things he says, but he really is clueless when it comes to finance which dulls the glimmer of his promises. I have a hard time believing he can tackle the extremely complicated task of socializing almost everything while simultaneously reducing corruption and inefficiency in government.
edit on ppm1231403204 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

No problem there Edith, please say hello to Archie for me!

Maybe we should talk about the other border while we are on this discussion. Not all illegal immigrants are brown people coming across the southern border, how obviously racist!






edit on 27-12-2015 by AlaskanDad because: our & are typo



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Aazadan

Again have you looked at the proposal? EVERY category for the individual is lower. UP TO 54,000 it's a 10% rate. 54,001 becomes 20%. So how is it someone would pay more if every rate on every dollar is lower under this proposal. I'm not getting it.

Oh, and the FIRST $29,000, ZERO percent tax.


I used the numbers you threw at me for a flat tax. A 10% bracket to $54,000 and 20% above that is not a flat rate. It's also too low of a tax plan. The government needs a certain amount of revenue to function, you don't tax and then find ways to spend whatever you end up with. You create a budget and then tax to fill that need. Trumps tax plan does not fill current budgetary needs. What specifically do you want to cut in order to make the budget fit the revenue?



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
To a college kid trying to work his way through school? They USE to.

To a young kid trying to gain work experience, they USE to.

How old are you? Do you even remember those days? I use to leave High School to go to my job when I was 15-16, as a valet, who made $20 an hour in tips....now ALL are taken by foreign nationals

Do you even remember those times? I have to ask.


That's not due to illegals, that's due to stagnant wages. The area I live in has few if any illegals. Those jobs still pay minimum wage with no tips.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

You edited your post to include questions about my age and profession. So if you want to bring that up at a later time as some kind of argument or statement in your favor...

I think you are feeling frustrated because you remember and realize that as prices have continued to rise, wages have stayed flat. That's called inflation.

Wages have not kept up with inflation, and that has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. Let me clarify: inflation has nothing to do with Mexican and Latino immigration.





In fact, the minimum wage has actually fallen in value when you take into account inflation. The value of the minimum wage 35 year ago, in today’s dollars, was just about $11 an hour. So even though Washington has the best statewide minimum wage in the country ($9.32), a worker earning the minimum wage here starts out $1.68 behind what she would have made in 1968.

Link

So people are producing more, getting more done -- but wages have stagnated. Are you still going to argue that illegal immigrants "taking our jobs" is the sole reason that people in Washington are making less per hour (adjusted for inflation) than in 1968?

I'm already ahead of you, if you try and say yes -- using something like this as an argument for example:



Today’s high level of illegal immigration originated during the war years of the early 1940s. Labor shortages caused the federal government to set up a program to import Mexican laborers to work temporarily in agriculture, primary in the Southwest. This was called the Bracero Program. The goal was to import foreign workers (originally thought to number in the hundreds) during agricultural harvest and then encourage them to go home.

Link

I'd remind you that its the GOP/Republicans claiming and crying over the loss of the "prosperous" 1950's and 60s -- the middle class exploded and American buying power and wages hadn't ever been higher. Let's take a look:



The post–World War II economic expansion, also known as the postwar economic boom, the long boom, and the Golden Age of Capitalism, was a period of economic prosperity in the mid-20th century which occurred, following the end of World War II in 1945, and lasted until the early 1970s.


But how could that be possible if illegal immigrants were stealing our jobs? They actually kind of helped...



The period from the end of World War II to the early 1970s was a golden era of American capitalism. $200 billion in war bonds matured, and the G.I. Bill financed a well-educated work force. The middle class swelled, as did GDP and productivity. The US underwent its own golden age of economic growth. This growth was distributed fairly evenly across the economic classes, which some attribute to the strength of labor unions in this period—labor union membership peaked during the 1950s. Much of the growth came from the movement of low-income farm workers into better-paying jobs in the towns and cities—a process largely completed by 1960.[

Wikipedia

That's right, those immigrants took the vacant jobs of those farmers who got better paying jobs! Those former farmers got better paying jobs making more money, which helped swell the middle class ranks!

In fact...



Immigrants provide much of the low-skill labor for these industries. Without the immigrant labor, prices consumers pay for hotels and restaurants would be substantially higher, and some agriculture might migrate offshore.

Link

Illegal immigration is just a political weapon that politicians use to scare people.

The facts are:

1. Wages have stagnated since the 1960's
2. Inflation has continued to rise
3. Foreign workers helped free Americans from low-wage jobs
4. The biggest economic boom in our countries history happened despite immigrants

Immigrants have nothing to do with that college kid not being able to work part time and go to school part time. Immigrants have nothing to do with Walmart not paying a living wage. Immigrants have nothing to do with that McDonalds employee having to be on food stamps because the cost of living has outpaced wages.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Employers don't have to hire these people if they don't want to. Generally, the most qualified people are the ones that are supposed to get the job. Are you telling me that the most qualified people applying for these "highly skilled jobs" are illegal immigrants who can't speak or read our language fluently, with no prior experience in that field of work?


That's the theory of capitalism, the best person gets the job. That's not the reality though, it's the most cost effective person that gets the job. What this means is that those skills aren't worth a higher wage. It's cheaper to fix the other persons mistakes than to hire a person who won't make them in the first place. This is a side effect of productivity, with productivity being what it is in the US (it's extremely high) it's easier to just eat the loss on a mistake than to do it over.

Planned Obsolescence. The concept applies to employees too, cheap is more competitive than quality.
edit on 27-12-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 08:29 PM
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Not sure where they are getting the information on his tax plan. He is proposing a tax cut. This is what we want as citizens. I could care less if there was a trillion less collected by the Federal Government. They need to balance a goddamn budget.

It would lower taxes for all which would create more after tax monies which would boost the economy. It would also drive businesses to employ more.


Donald Trump’s tax plan would enact a number of tax reforms that would both lower marginal tax rates on workers and significantly reduce the cost of capital. These changes in the incentives to work and invest would greatly increase the U.S. economy’s size in the long run, leading to higher incomes for taxpayers at all income levels. The plan would also be a large tax cut, which would increase the federal government’s deficit by over $10 trillion, both on a static and dynamic basis.


Mr. Trump’s tax plan would substantially lower individual income taxes and the corporate income tax and eliminate a number of complex features in the current tax code.
Mr. Trump’s plan would cut taxes by $11.98 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up reducing tax revenues by $10.14 trillion over the next decade when accounting for economic growth from increases in the supply of labor and capital.
The plan would also result in increased outlays due to higher interest on the debt, creating a ten-year deficit somewhat larger than the estimates above.
According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly reduce marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to an 11 percent higher GDP over the long term provided that the tax cut could be appropriately financed.
The plan would also lead to a 29 percent larger capital stock, 6.5 percent higher wages, and 5.3 million more full-time equivalent jobs.
The plan would cut taxes and lead to higher after-tax incomes for taxpayers at all levels of income.

This is an independent analysis.

Link

We NEED lower taxes.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Not when they get a 25,000 standard deduction it doesn't.


Yes it does. If you make 50k a year paying 15% on 25k of that puts you at $46,250 or a 7.5% rate. If someone is making millions they can pay $100,000 or $200,000 with no impact on their lives. They might be paying a bigger percentage but after about $2 million more income doesn't actually improve your quality of life. Note that this is also the logic behind progressive tax rates, someone at the top rate can pay 35% much more easily than someone at the bottom can pay 15%.
...


Yes, it doesn't impact the rich the way it would the middle class, but then you have to look at the details. It will impact the ability for their business to pay bills, wages, ect. which screws over the employees. The problem isn't the lack of tax revenue, the problem isn't the rich getting taxed their fair share, the problem is spending. Paul Ryan just sold out my great great great great gran-kids whom will probably have a 90% tax rate even though they will have trouble paying for bread. But I guess its OK because it makes people feel good.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Vector99

Really ???

More Mexicans are leaving US than are entering
....


That's because illegals from Guatemala will do it even cheaper. Maybe that is why Mexico has such tough immigration laws.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 09:26 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

I wonder what happens when a company hires an illegal alien and that illegal worker causes a catastrophic accident that kills actual US citizens?

I would imagine the liability would be to high to put an illegal immigrant in a job that carries such responsibility, no? Couldn't an accident at the hands on an illegal immigrant spell financial ruin and lawsuits for the employer?

I mean, you're not going to put an illegal immigrant behind the stick of a 777...
edit on 27-12-2015 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: BIGPoJo

Paul Ryan did the only responsible thing there was to do and he saved the Republicans while doing it. He kept the government going, and by authorizing such a large spending increase he has taken the issue completely off the table through election time which means his party can't run (and lose) on it.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other person. The US already spends less per capita than every other developed nation, and were doing so with a ridiculously large defense budget. The amount spent on citizens in the US is comparable to Mexico.

Where do you think the US needs to cut? Come up with a budget. How much should we spend on roads? Space travel? Medicine? Education? Infrastructure? What is the target spending level you want to see from the government? Why that level? Tell me some areas where we can make substantial cuts that will lower the budget. Don't find a 1% cut in something that makes up 1% of the budget (a .001% reduction in spending). Do what Bill Clinton did, go through the budget or even just a section of it line by line and find some cuts.

Our government right now, largely due to the actions of deficit hawks over the past 2 decades have already trimmed the fat. It's my belief that there is no more fat left to be trimmed, considering everything is underfunded and a disaster right now I'm pretty secure in that assessment.

Also remember, the government is providing services. If you're not paying for it through taxes you're paying for it out of pocket. So not only do you need to find places to cut, but you need to cut in areas where the private sector is going to outperform the public one.



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