Petition Seeks To Ban Donald Trump From U.K. Over Hate Speech

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Hate speech is already banned in the UK, hun. This is just an application of that ban.

As for MY personal opinion on banning hate speech, I think it is a fine and dangerous line to tread, but Trump is certainly making a good case for doing it. I'm sure you'll twist those words to suit your narrative that I'm secretly the fascist though.

Just to be clear, hate speech per se is not banned in the UK - what is banned is anything that provokes violence or hate at a racial or gender based level, or to an extent a faith level, it's not that black and white though.

If a group organised a march against the building of a new mosque/church/synagogue for reasons other than they distrusted the religion (maybe if they did actually, can't think of a precedent), and that march had been approved by the local police and council then that would be given a go ahead - any opposition to the march would be allowed as long as it was peaceful and even then let's say the English Defence League showed up and started shouting, arrests would only take place if violence took place or there was a clear threat of it.

Pretty much sure most civilised countries operate similarly. Free speech isn't 'banned', but if you shout loud for people to kill other people you may end up with you in a court - not sure I think that's a bad thing?

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

I agree, and here we have several members praising it.......what happens when what they say isnt the flavor of the day, will they be fine with it then?

We continue to defend their right, even where they wouldn't defend anyone else's.

a reply to: uncommitted

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not surprised there are caveats and things aren't so black and white. Banning hate speech has always been something I was leery about because it is easy to go to far in the banning direction.

originally posted by: Segenam

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
If we banned hate speech in the US about 75% of the populace would have wear muzzles.
What a ridiculous notion punishing people for speaking what they feel.
This is how you treat 3 and 4 year olds, not adult populations.
Sorry Britain but you have gone way too far.

if your figures are right that 75% wd have to wear muzzles for banning hate speech .. i personally find it scarier, that you reckon the wrong part of that, is to want to publically oppose it and create a stigma of such things .. cos sooo many as 75% do it .. so it shd be okay then .. and 'going too far', to want to oppose such things .. cos, 75% do it .. lol ... okay .. great mentaility mate .. while your stance on hate speech isnt clear ... reading between the lines at what you wrote .. its not looking too pretty

there was a time not too long ago, that racism was actually more accceptable here in UK .. as in .. it wasnt generally frowned upon the way it is today ... thanks to education and public awareness (and more mixed races also living here also now i guess), i see a huge difference today, in what people find acceptable ... and in many cases its not PC gone too far .. but thats detail i had prob best not go into here ....

or do you think we should be done with public awareness and the likes .. and maybe even bring teh slaves back ?

hate speech can very much be a form of bullying .. and very distressful to many people in minorities here ... i dare say many suicides have resulted from it ... should bullying be allowed too mate ? ... silly to punish someone for wanting to hurt someone else ... cos 75% people do it ?

as long as we continue to embrace your attitude .. the 75% or whatever, will never ever change .... it will always be ... if you want change .. the only way, is to change, and stop sitting back back in your chair with your superior knowledge pointing down at the other people that do try to make change for the better !!

Racism has never been acceptable, it's just that the quota of those being racist far outnumbered those that were being attacked for their colour/gender/faith/nationality. As you are in Scotland and I will make the assumption Scottish, I would have thought you would understand that.

Please don't take that as a dig at you, it isn't, but this concept some people have that having a 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs' in a boarding house window was somehow acceptable back in the halcyon days of the 50's, 60's and 70's is just wrong, it was never acceptable. Maybe too much Bernard Manning was on the TV in those days.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

I agree, and here we have several members praising it.......what happens when what they say isnt the flavor of the day, will they be fine with it then?

We continue to defend their right, even where they wouldn't defend anyone else's.

I would fight and die for their right to say they agree with banning free speech, but then, nobody is trying to muzzle them for saying that, because it is understood it is their right.

Yet they cant understand it is also trumps right....

Funny old world we live in.

Hate speech, or any racial speech should be banned in any country, not just UK.

Everyone was wondering why Germans did not do something to prevent Hitler's rise to power, that was helped with hate and racial speeches, yet we living recreation of the same politics and views... and some are applauding?!

There is a fine line between freedom to speak and hate speech, but it might be beyond mental capabilities for some to comprehend.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

You are missing the point. If all Trump was doing was disrespecting Muslims, who would actually care what he thinks. He is instead proposing what would be his policy should be become USA president and it's the policy people find repugnant. But hey, if you can't see the difference that is your problem.

a reply to: uncommitted

you misunderstand ... i am speaking of my own personal life experiences ... i have seen the changes through my life ..
i am not saying it was once acceptable .. i am making a direct contrast between 'general' public perception now, and 1980 when i first started to see racism directly around me towards the people i knew ...

as i stated in my earlier post .. i did not want to go into detail to validate my opinion ... there is zero doubt .. that today, it is tolerated far less than when i was a young boy ... even just the terminology is different today ...
if you still disagree with me, fair play .. im not going to list my personal experiences to prove my point and end up get my post removed for thread drift anyway..
Cheers mate

There's a lot of people in Scotland who hate the man and have the freedom of speech to protest against him, but when he employs his own security to shut them up, you have to wonder if he's such a fan of free speech. Don't get trumped.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Stop talking about "us" like you know us. You know me as well as you know my screen name. That's it. I know DAMN well what the 1st Amendment is and says. I know DAMN well that Trump has the right to free speech HERE. I have at NO POINT endorsed restricting his free speech in THIS country. I'd appreciate you getting your rhetoric straight.

PS: I wonder how often you complain about PC culture destroying your free speech.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
Hate speech, or any racial speech should be banned in any country, not just UK.

Everyone was wondering why Germans did not do something to prevent Hitler's rise to power, that was helped with hate and racial speeches, yet we living recreation of the same politics and views... and some are applauding?!

There is a fine line between freedom to speak and hate speech, but it might be beyond mental capabilities for some to comprehend.

Hate speech is a BS made up PC term, used to demonize those that dont agree with you.

All speech should be free, with only a couple minor exceptions "FIRE!!!" in a crouded theatre....not protected "I HAVE A BOMB!!!!" on a plane not protected.

"I HATE MUSLIMS!!!" absolutely protected

"ALLAH COMMANDS WE KILL ALL INFIDELS!!" absolutely protected

"WHITE CRACKERS NEED TO DIE!!" protected

"BLACKS ARE LESS THAN HUMAN" protected

the only limits on free speech are limited to words that are intended to cause severe physical harm on people.

Emotional harm/ hurt feelings are not reason enough to limit free speech period!

You know, I'll bet there's a "petition" out there somewhere for all people to be required to wear a monkey butt on their head in public...or a "petition" requiring the use of a fire hose for all enemas...or a "petition" to make all kids with red hair and freckles hop on their left foot...or a "petition" to grow figs on Mars...or a "petition" to...well you get the idea.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Stop talking about "us" like you know us. You know me as well as you know my screen name. That's it. I know DAMN well what the 1st Amendment is and says. I know DAMN well that Trump has the right to free speech HERE. I have at NO POINT endorsed restricting his free speech in THIS country. I'd appreciate you getting your rhetoric straight.

PS: I wonder how often you complain about PC culture destroying your free speech.

LOL WOW!!!!

Did i mention you?

I dont think I singled any one person out specifically.

Sorry if i struck a nerve, maybe try not being the foot the shoe I described fits so well in the future if thats the case.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Are you saying you are happy with the way England is atm? I mean you know, to say it without "offensing" some, "the failure of multiculturalism"? I talk with some UK on glp and let me tell you, 100% of them hate the way their country is.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Oh please. I know damn well who you were talking about because you just got done accusing me of similar things. Don't try your coy games here. I'm not stupid.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

You are missing the point. If all Trump was doing was disrespecting Muslims, who would actually care what he thinks. He is instead proposing what would be his policy should be become USA president and it's the policy people find repugnant. But hey, if you can't see the difference that is your problem.

Feelings aren't an accurate descriptor of the world. If you seek to banish someone because you don't like repugnant feelings, that is your problem.

originally posted by: _damon
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Are you saying you are happy with the way England is atm? I mean you know, to say it without "offensing" some, "the failure of multiculturalism"? I talk with some UK on glp and let me tell you, 100% of them hate the way their country is.

Multiculturalism is just a PC term that means- the extinction of white culture

Since it is only white nations it is being forced on.

I had a racist tell me that about 10 years ago, I disagreed with him.

But a decade later......I kinda see his point.

the only cultures multiculturalism is being forced on are white cultures.

His exact words were- " Africa is never too black, asia is never too yellow, the Middle East is never to tan, central and south America is never to brown. But Europe and north america are always too white"

Is he right? I dont know, I would like to think not, since he believes in hitlers Arian superiority BS, but at the same time, much he said when we talked has come to pass, and I see it more clearly by the day.

I still hope it is just a case of corelation not necassarily being causation.

Time will tell I suppose, but he is dead 8 years now, so I wont be able to say I told you so if he is proven wrong.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

You are missing the point. If all Trump was doing was disrespecting Muslims, who would actually care what he thinks. He is instead proposing what would be his policy should be become USA president and it's the policy people find repugnant. But hey, if you can't see the difference that is your problem.

Feelings aren't an accurate descriptor of the world. If you seek to banish someone because you don't like repugnant feelings, that is your problem.

It's funny how you are defending Trump because people in the UK want to ban him, meanwhile Trump wants to ban a whole religious demographic from the states.

I wouldn't trust what the people of glp had to say on any issue. I'm quite happy with the U.K. At the moment. It's always been a multi cultural society with numerous invaisions from Romans to Vikings to Anglo Saxons to Neolithic man.we all got here somehow or another.
The U.K. Can't be that bad if you have people from all over the world risking life and limb to get here

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Slow day in the UK eh?