Petition Seeks To Ban Donald Trump From U.K. Over Hate Speech

a reply to: Lysergic most days are slow in the uk, it's not action packed like America with your daily news of active shooters and your 6 month election cycle with the comical debates to amuse the dumb downed masses

originally posted by: Segenam
a reply to: uncommitted

you misunderstand ... i am speaking of my own personal life experiences ... i have seen the changes through my life ..
i am not saying it was once acceptable .. i am making a direct contrast between 'general' public perception now, and 1980 when i first started to see racism directly around me towards the people i knew ...

as i stated in my earlier post .. i did not want to go into detail to validate my opinion ... there is zero doubt .. that today, it is tolerated far less than when i was a young boy ... even just the terminology is different today ...
if you still disagree with me, fair play .. im not going to list my personal experiences to prove my point and end up get my post removed for thread drift anyway..
Cheers mate

Maybe we misunderstood each other slightly, I was just saying that the opinion that racism was ever ok was made by white people wondering what all the fuss was about - no more than that - wasn't disagreeing with your post, just commenting that the fact casual racism wasn't an issue to some people (love thy neighbour as an example, although it actually showed that it wasn't) was never right.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

If we didn't keep the circus going it'd fall apart.

originally posted by: forkedtongue
Emotional harm/ hurt feelings are not reason enough to limit free speech period!

I believe you missed to point and line that separates free speech and hate speech - calling to hurt someone is what trump is doing, by claiming all Muslims are extremist/should be prohibited to come to USA. That is not a free speech - that is radical at its best - and again - I do get it why this sounds like a poem to some radical views you can see on right wing... others just don't have a guts to say what they think... while Trump, again, just like Hitler did some 70 years ago took a chance to rise to power with such rhetoric...

Some 1/4 of century ago my history professor would say - history tends to repeat itself... history goes into circle... and this is just one of things that I see this statement being true... just different names/countries, same nationalism and racial rhetoric...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Oh please. I know damn well who you were talking about because you just got done accusing me of similar things. Don't try your coy games here. I'm not stupid.

I agree you arent stupid, if I thought you were, you wouldnt merit a reply from me.

I do however think you very misguided, and yes you have been championing stiffling others free speech.

But I wasnt talking about you individually.

You just assumed I was.

I was talking in much broader terms.

You simply went ballistic and on the attack, because I was calling out the mentality shared by a great many that is hypocritical about free speech and expression, and recognized that you fit that description very well.

I didnt imply you, you assumed I did, because you know it fits with exactly what you said, and have been saying.

Once again, I will fight and die for your right to demand others lose their freedom of speech, but I will also fight and die to defend their freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech isnt meant for those that agree with you, it is for meant for those that dont agree with you.

I dont agree with you at all, but have not demanded you be silenced, have I?

Because it is your right to say things I dont like, just like it is mine to say things you dont like, and trumps, and the muslim who says I should die for being an atheist, or the black panther that says my white babies should die.

It is meant to protect unpopular expression, not popular expression. That was the entire intent of it in the first place.

Popular things dont get shouted down and silenced enmass, unpopular things do.

Hence the need to protect them from the mob mentality, because though their reasoning may seem misguided or even idiotic to you or me, they still have the right to express themselves through words.

If I dont like what hillary says, I ignore her, I dont champion muzzling her.

You cant say the same, maybe look in the mirror.

The tide can always go the other way, and maybe trump is the flavor of the day and your idiology is the one being demanded to be silenced.

On that day, I will stand with you and those that think like you, even though I do not agree with you, I will fight and die to guarantee you have the right to say what you think freely.

It really is that simple.


Cheers bro

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: SuperFrog
Hate speech, or any racial speech should be banned in any country, not just UK.

Everyone was wondering why Germans did not do something to prevent Hitler's rise to power, that was helped with hate and racial speeches, yet we living recreation of the same politics and views... and some are applauding?!

There is a fine line between freedom to speak and hate speech, but it might be beyond mental capabilities for some to comprehend.

Hate speech is a BS made up PC term, used to demonize those that dont agree with you.

All speech should be free, with only a couple minor exceptions "FIRE!!!" in a crouded theatre....not protected "I HAVE A BOMB!!!!" on a plane not protected.

"I HATE MUSLIMS!!!" absolutely protected

"ALLAH COMMANDS WE KILL ALL INFIDELS!!" absolutely protected

"WHITE CRACKERS NEED TO DIE!!" protected

"BLACKS ARE LESS THAN HUMAN" protected

the only limits on free speech are limited to words that are intended to cause severe physical harm on people.

Emotional harm/ hurt feelings are not reason enough to limit free speech period!

You miss the important one - "As president of America I will discriminate openly against people of a particular faith". Is it protected? Don't know, I'm not American. Will it get you a welcome into countries which finds such a view repugnant? Probably not. Don't you see the difference?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Censorship and banishment due to what one says is a travesty, not a joke. It's an embarrassment to liberty.

You are missing the point. If all Trump was doing was disrespecting Muslims, who would actually care what he thinks. He is instead proposing what would be his policy should be become USA president and it's the policy people find repugnant. But hey, if you can't see the difference that is your problem.

Feelings aren't an accurate descriptor of the world. If you seek to banish someone because you don't like repugnant feelings, that is your problem.

I'm not sure if you actually wanted that to make sense. Do you think non Trump supporters within or outside the US should be happy with him proposing this as a policy? And if they don't, that they should make their feelings clear?

You obviously aren't in as much favour of free speech as you think you are, are you?

a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: SuperFrog
Hate speech, or any racial speech should be banned in any country, not just UK.

Everyone was wondering why Germans did not do something to prevent Hitler's rise to power, that was helped with hate and racial speeches, yet we living recreation of the same politics and views... and some are applauding?!

There is a fine line between freedom to speak and hate speech, but it might be beyond mental capabilities for some to comprehend.

Hate speech is a BS made up PC term, used to demonize those that dont agree with you.

All speech should be free, with only a couple minor exceptions "FIRE!!!" in a crouded theatre....not protected "I HAVE A BOMB!!!!" on a plane not protected.

"I HATE MUSLIMS!!!" absolutely protected

"ALLAH COMMANDS WE KILL ALL INFIDELS!!" absolutely protected

"WHITE CRACKERS NEED TO DIE!!" protected

"BLACKS ARE LESS THAN HUMAN" protected

the only limits on free speech are limited to words that are intended to cause severe physical harm on people.

Emotional harm/ hurt feelings are not reason enough to limit free speech period!

You miss the important one - "As president of America I will discriminate openly against people of a particular faith". Is it protected? Don't know, I'm not American. Will it get you a welcome into countries which finds such a view repugnant? Probably not. Don't you see the difference?

There is no difference.
Fararkan, is one of the biggest pieces of crap I have ever seen or heard of, but if he ran for president, he still has the same rights as before, he can still express himself freely.

Why do you keep insisting this need to stifle free expression?

There is no need.

So what if he became president and I didnt like him or agree with him on basically anything( OBAMA) he still has the same right to say his hateful BS as anyone else.

You are turning somthing very simple into somthing very complex so you can try to twist it into what you want.

When it is in fact quite sublime in its original form, I dont like it you dont like it he doesnt like it she doesnt like it, but we all get to say what we think.

We all win and we all lose at the same time in the same measure.

It is the essence of compromise.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

I have been having one, you have been trying and failing to attack me.

Your attacks dont work because I wont be baited by your loaded and hostile responses.

I have been nothing but cordial towards you, you have been mostly hostile towards me.

Meh, that is the essence of free speach, we disagree, so what, I said what I had to say so did you.

One of us was relevant, one of us was all but foaming at the mouth, at the end of the day.......did we change anything?

Then why get worked up about it?

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

I have been having one, you have been trying and failing to attack me.

Your attacks dont work because I wont be baited by your loaded and hostile responses.

I have been nothing but cordial towards you, you have been mostly hostile towards me.

Lol. This was your first post in the thread:

So you are happy to see free speech stifled?

Well at least you can admit to being a fascist.

Don't pull that saint card with me. You came into the thread combative and now you are trying to act all saintly when I call you on it. Just stop.

Meh, that is the essence of free speach, we disagree, so what, I said what I had to say so did you.

One of us was relevant, one of us was all but foaming at the mouth, at the end of the day.......did we change anything?

Then why get worked up about it?

Like I said whatever. You aren't interested in a real discussion.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

I have been having one, you have been trying and failing to attack me.

Your attacks dont work because I wont be baited by your loaded and hostile responses.

I have been nothing but cordial towards you, you have been mostly hostile towards me.

Lol. This was your first post in the thread:

So you are happy to see free speech stifled?

Well at least you can admit to being a fascist.

Don't pull that saint card with me. You came into the thread combative and now you are trying to act all saintly when I call you on it. Just stop.

Meh, that is the essence of free speach, we disagree, so what, I said what I had to say so did you.

One of us was relevant, one of us was all but foaming at the mouth, at the end of the day.......did we change anything?

Then why get worked up about it?

Like I said whatever. You aren't interested in a real discussion.

Oh, im not acting saintly, I am anything but.....lets call it wisdom, because I have learned a lot over the years, that in my youth, I would not even recognize myself now.

I was not once combative towards you.

Every one of your responses was aggressive and dripping with accusation.

You cant quote one of mine that was, you want me to quote the ones where you were?

You were on some high horse demanding trump be silenced, while I mentioned several times, that nobody should be silenced, not even those like you demanding others be silenced.

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

I have been having one, you have been trying and failing to attack me.

Your attacks dont work because I wont be baited by your loaded and hostile responses.

I have been nothing but cordial towards you, you have been mostly hostile towards me.

Lol. This was your first post in the thread:

So you are happy to see free speech stifled?

Well at least you can admit to being a fascist.

Don't pull that saint card with me. You came into the thread combative and now you are trying to act all saintly when I call you on it. Just stop.

Meh, that is the essence of free speach, we disagree, so what, I said what I had to say so did you.

One of us was relevant, one of us was all but foaming at the mouth, at the end of the day.......did we change anything?

Then why get worked up about it?

Like I said whatever. You aren't interested in a real discussion.

Oh, im not acting saintly, I am anything but.....lets call it wisdom, because I have learned a lot over the years, that in my youth, I would not even recognize myself now.

I was not once combative towards you.

Every one of your responses was aggressive and dripping with accusation.

You cant quote one of mine that was, you want me to quote the ones where you were?

You were on some high horse demanding trump be silenced, while I mentioned several times, that nobody should be silenced, not even those like you demanding others be silenced.

Sure whatever. If you don't think calling someone a fascist as the very first thing you ever say to them isn't combative then you need some lessons on manners holmes.

The reason MY posts were aggressive was because you came into my thread and unashamedly (and still unashamedly, its not like you've apologized for it or anything) called me a fascist. Insulting someone like that is a quick way to get on someone's bad side.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: forkedtongue

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Whatever. You still believe I'm trying to stifle free speech. You clearly aren't interested in a real discussion.

I have been having one, you have been trying and failing to attack me.

Your attacks dont work because I wont be baited by your loaded and hostile responses.

I have been nothing but cordial towards you, you have been mostly hostile towards me.

Lol. This was your first post in the thread:

So you are happy to see free speech stifled?

Well at least you can admit to being a fascist.

Don't pull that saint card with me. You came into the thread combative and now you are trying to act all saintly when I call you on it. Just stop.

Meh, that is the essence of free speach, we disagree, so what, I said what I had to say so did you.

One of us was relevant, one of us was all but foaming at the mouth, at the end of the day.......did we change anything?

Then why get worked up about it?

Like I said whatever. You aren't interested in a real discussion.

Oh, im not acting saintly, I am anything but.....lets call it wisdom, because I have learned a lot over the years, that in my youth, I would not even recognize myself now.

I was not once combative towards you.

Every one of your responses was aggressive and dripping with accusation.

You cant quote one of mine that was, you want me to quote the ones where you were?

You were on some high horse demanding trump be silenced, while I mentioned several times, that nobody should be silenced, not even those like you demanding others be silenced.

Sure whatever. If you don't think calling someone a fascist as the very first thing you ever say to them isn't combative then you need some lessons on manners holmes.

The reason MY posts were aggressive was because you came into my thread and unashamedly (and still unashamedly, its not like you've apologized for it or anything) called me a fascist. Insulting someone like that is a quick way to get on someone's bad side.

That was an obvious fuxtaposition since you called trump one first.

I even quoted it in my reply to make the meaning clear, and spelled out that you were the one acting like a fascist.

I didnt accuse.

It was meant to highlight your hypocrisy, nothing more.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Like I said. "Whatever." I'm done with your hypocritical rhetoric. If you think insulting someone is a fine way to start a rational discussion then I really want to have nothing to do with you.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You sure are an argumentative one, aren't ya? You seem to be happy to gleefully pound your chest about the ills of politics in America, but sure are awful 'tender' when someone calls you on it! It seems you seldom miss a opportunity in taking a cheap-shot at America, regardless of topic.

Tell me; is there anything you like about America?

Don't say the 'people' because you've made it clear in this post and others you harbor nothing but contempt for Americans. Don't say the culture, because you're pretty clear on your posture there. And we know it sure as hell ain't the politics! Maybe it's the pretty girls (without the pumpkin teeth), or the countryside, or, or, or, could it be...(GASP)the guns??? That's it isn't it...you're really a closet gun lover who is insanely jealous of our Bill of Rights, huh?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I don't recall being on trial here. If you really want to know this, move it to U2U. MAYBE I'll respond.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: forkedtongue

Like I said. "Whatever." I'm done with your hypocritical rhetoric. If you think insulting someone is a fine way to start a rational discussion then I really want to have nothing to do with you.

You not one time made a single attempt at rational discussion, you started off demanding trump be silenced, contrary to his and every Americans rights, I pointed out you hypocrisy and you have been hostile to me nonstop since.

Reread the thread, I am not making this up.

If you desire no more dialog , that is fine, we agree to disagree.

No hard feelings friend

Trump’s got practically all minorities after him.

He’s made more enemies on this run than Al Capone:

Blacks, Latinos, now 2 billion Muslims despise him; all immigrants probably fear and hate him

The Jews don’t even like him

The disabled hate him

Has he offended the gays yet?

Oh yeah I think many woman hate him

But he thinks he’s an American hero and it’s all political correctness

It may be that Trump is a false flag to make Bush and Cheney look good

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You sure are an argumentative one, aren't ya? You seem to be happy to gleefully pound your chest about the ills of politics in America, but sure are awful 'tender' when someone calls you on it! It seems you seldom miss a opportunity in taking a cheap-shot at America, regardless of topic.

Tell me; is there anything you like about America?

Don't say the 'people' because you've made it clear in this post and others you harbor nothing but contempt for Americans. Don't say the culture, because you're pretty clear on your posture there. And we know it sure as hell ain't the politics! Maybe it's the pretty girls (without the pumpkin teeth), or the countryside, or, or, or, could it be...(GASP)the guns??? That's it isn't it...you're really a closet gun lover who is insanely jealous of our Bill of Rights, huh?

I think he may be the type so self sure of their idiology, that anyone that questions it must be making a personal attack on him personally.

Sadly, that was never my intent.

BTW I am an openly happy gun lover, and freedom loving vet.

thanks for bringing a voice of reason into this.

I was about to just disengage and leave, as it was obvious his intent was only to create strife from the start and never to have a civil discussion.