Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

a reply to: kaylaluv

Did I say anything like that?

I am trying to find the middle ground here...Personally I don't really care, and think the kid should be able to dress however she wants.

What I am trying to point out is that many people feel that at 6 years old, kids don't know at all what they want. Some kids barely understand that there are differences between boys and girls anyways.

So in that regard, some people feel that parents may influence their children(even subconsciously), and that is in the area of child abuse at that point.

I think that if she wants to dress like a girl fine. If she wants to change her name then let her parents legally change it.

Beyond that, let the child grow up a bit for goodness sake...It took me 25+ years on this earth to really start to figure myself out, and continue to have new revelations all the time.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Annee

Discredited by whom? He works at Johns Hopkins and has been studying this for 40 years.

I am very aware who Paul McHugh is and his history.

a reply to: Annee

Are you aware of any evidence for your claim he has been discredited?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Annee

By that logic you should not be transsexual in a state that does not have specific protections set up for them.

Most states don't.

Human Rights and LGBT groups are working to change that.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Sure, they should also delete the posts that called Jazz a "thing" and a "tranny". Why didn't you call those name-calling posts out, hmmmm?

a reply to: Annee

You missed my point entirely. This just gets back into a circular discussion about protections. Should the residents of states vote for protections for bakers etc? Anyways bit of a tangent and like I said you missed how your logic is faulty.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Tranny is short for transsexual . Thing is used because you have confused the meaning of pronouns but I don't care delete all the offensive post it has no room in this discussion. Logic speaks for itself.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Tranny is short for transsexual . Thing is used because you have confused the meaning of pronouns but I don't care delete all the offensive post it has no room in this discussion. Logic speaks for itself.

No, it is a derogatory slur used by assholes.

I said I was done here but I'm not so sue me. Really Santa? Paul McHugh? I expected no less in your morbid and peculiarly motivated tirade against all things trans but you could have done better. McHugh's "work" has been denounced and discredited universally except of course by the conservative right-wing anti-trans fundamentalists that latch on to whatever they can and cling to it as gospel. No, I'm not going to post links in rebuttal. It's not worth my time to further acknowledge your outstanding (lame) Google skills and your attraction to dogma when obviously you know absolutely nothing of real substance nor have any actual experience regarding the lives and issues of transgender and transsexual people.

It is a shame that a topic like this attracts so much negativity and that some people feel it is an invitation to hop in with a drive-by comment while others take opportunity to vehemently deny science or otherwise denigrate any open-minded discussion of this subject. It troubles me to resort to an us vs. them conversation when the opportunity does still exist for others to share and work through their ideas on this whole thing but henceforth, I'm simply going to ignore those that wish to shut down discussion or sling vitriol. Criticize, attack and flame away at me for this, call me blind, ignorant and biased and say whatever but some people can see through this BS.

I'll give a dollar here to anyone who has ever met or known a young trans kid. In spite of all the dogma, political positioning, religious fundamentalism, biased research, blogs and websites or your personal views or discomfort with the whole thing, they are just kids and they will melt your heart. These children are not mentally ill or confused about who they are. Many are very astute and wise beyond their years and have an understanding of things some people can live a whole lifetime and never get, yes, even at six years old.

I have great compassion and empathy for the things these kids go through and what they have to face just being themselves and comfortable in their own skin. Regardless of your opinion, dogma or political affiliations, try putting yourself in their shoes for a minute and see how it feels. Like it or not, believe it or not, the fact is these kids are real and they exist and they face a struggle that very few can even comprehend.

Throw all the mud you want. It doesn't change anything but promoting ideas and attitudes that make the lives of these kids and their families more difficult or more unwelcome simply put, is not very nice and not very civilized.

a reply to: Freija

These children are not mentally ill or confused about who they are. Many are very astute and wise beyond their years and have an understanding of things some people can live a whole lifetime and never get, yes, even at six years old.

This has to be a joke right? Its the core of the discussion and its classifications in the medical community. Dont know if I can take you seriously any longer. Welcome back btw

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: kaylaluv

It never mentioned use of hormone blockers with the 70-80%. If you reread it it says they did not go through any medical or surgical treatments e.g. Hormone blockers.

That's what I'm saying. Hormone blockers wouldn't have hurt the 70-80%, but would have greatly helped the 20-30%. Win/win. That's assuming these number are even real.

The study does mention the minors of immigrants who went through practices like FGM which is just a primitive form of sexual reassignment. Also you did not address the comment about the Hijra which have existed for thousands of years yet there is no improvement in social status or mental well being as alluded to by the mention of them being sex workers.

Sounds to me like these practices are against the minors' will. That doesn't sound good to me. So, there is another society that is as backwards as the West when it comes to treatment of people like the Hijra - what's your point?

You misread the quote about surgery as well. In Sweden where the Karolinska study was performed there is no requirement or recommendation for further evaluations like PET scans and other testing before surgery is considered. On top of that the issue is still a psychiatric one and that is why they say the reassignment does not suffice.

No, they said the surgery cured the gender dysphoria - I repeat - cured it. What the surgery did not cure is any feelings of inadequacy due to other factors, like puberty's permanent effects, or family mistreatment, etc. Further therapy is needed to deal with these other issues.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That is BS. You are trying to reinterpret the data about your chosen treatment and are neglecting to recognize that there could be other factors in the 30% such as having things reinforced by parents or say mass media.

The Hijra are an example of how societal acceptance hasnt done anything to curb their problems even when they are allowed to "be who they are".

So get rid of gender dysphoria and introduce the subject to a host of other mental illnesses which lead to self harm and other things mentioned in the original quote? The cure sounds worse than the condition if we go by "results".

a reply to: Anosognosia

You'd be surprised to know how many 6 yr olds know exactly what suicide is, and how to do it.

If you have no problem with her dressing like a girl and changing her name, then you have no problem with the OP. Neither should anyone else. Because that is all that's happening with this 6 yr old.

I'm sure you are still figuring yourself out, but I bet you figured out what gender you were a loooong time ago.

a reply to: kaylaluv

This isn't addressing anything new. If anything you are making unfounded assumptions about what a six year old "knows".

a reply to: kaylaluv

Regarding the suicide thing, are you saying that there are a lot of cases with 6 year old's committing suicide? Or committing suicide due to gender identity issues?

a reply to: NihilistSanta

And you are neglecting to recognize that the data you provided does nothing to prove what I asked you to prove: that there is a drug or therapy that will cure gender dysphoria, and how many transgender people who were able to fully transition before the permanent effects of puberty still wanted to self harm or commit suicide.

I beg to differ on how the Hijra are treated in their culture.

Hijras have a recorded history in the Indian subcontinent from antiquity onwards as suggested by the Kama Sutra period. This history features a number of well-known roles within subcontinental cultures, part gender-liminal, part spiritual and part survival.

In South Asia, many hijras live in well-defined and organised all-hijra communities, led by a guru.[7][8] These communities have sustained themselves over generations by "adopting" young boys who are rejected by, or flee, their family of origin.[9] Many work as sex workers for survival.[10]
Most hijras live at the margins of society with very low status; the very word "hijra" is sometimes used in a derogatory manner. The Indian lawyer and author Rajesh Talwar has written a book highlighting the human rights abuses suffered by the community titled 'The Third Sex and Human Rights.'[27] Few employment opportunities are available to hijras. Many get their income from extortion (forced payment by disrupting work/life using demonstrations and interference), performing at ceremonies (toli), begging (dheengna), or sex work ('raarha')—an occupation of eunuchs also recorded in premodern times. Violence against hijras, especially hijra sex workers, is often brutal, and occurs in public spaces, police stations, prisons, and their homes.[28] As with transgender people in most of the world, they face extreme discrimination in health, housing, education, employment, immigration, law, and any bureaucracy that is unable to place them into male or female gender categories.[29]

en.wikipedia.org...(South_Asia)

If you don't get rid of the gender dysphoria, you still have family mistreatment and unhappiness regarding the dysphoria. What's your solution?

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: pompel9
So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?

Seriously friend, try reading. I responded extensively to you on page 7 when you asked this question the first time.

"Transition" DOES NOT mean or equal surgery. Nothing is misleading but you certainly seem a little bit off in your understanding of a few things. As has been shown, if you don't understand something it will be explained but you have to meet us halfway by at least knowing what you're talking about a little.

Strange, you are calling me friend in the first paragraph and then goes on to personal attack in the second paragraph. Friends do not attack each other.

Transitioning is not taking on clothes of the opposite gender. That is cross-dressing.
Nowhere in the OP does it state that the girl (according to you now, still a boy) is still a boy. You wrote that the boy has transitioned to a girl, which obviously means surgery. Now you are saying that the girl has not received any surgery, making him still a boy.
That is why I asked you to clarify your OP, instead of doing so you attacked me.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.

At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?

The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?

Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.

So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?

No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?

Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.

What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.

That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.

a reply to: mwalker

You know whats confusing... people who can't stop talking about a Bakery Breaking The Law point blank period.com.org.co.uk

The State had anti-discrimination Laws that included Sexual Orientation and Gender-Identity, he broke the Law by refusing services based on those facts

Now, enough about Cake

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: 123143
One must question the wisdom of permitting a child to decide its future at so young an age.

At 6 years old, no surgery is performed, no irreversible drugs are taken, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. How about the wisdom of keeping a child from being suicidal? Does that work for ya?

The OP says the child has transitioned (as in surgery). Is the OP false?

Surgery?! Are you serious?

I think that's the major disconnect and confusion here. It seems many of you think that trans kids are getting surgeries and hormones at six. Is that what is going on here? People are actually thinking this?

A transgender child gets nothing but counseling and therapy. When they are in puberty, they take a blocker which does nothing but delay their puberty (again, nothing permanent). When a bit older, they may start taking the corresponding hormone if their physicians determine that this is truly the issue. An actual surgery does not happen until much later, if at all.

I wonder how much of this outrage is because of this misunderstanding.

So the OP is misleading, and the child has not gone trough surgery?

No. What is it about the OP states that she went through a surgery?

Did you notice this sentence in the OP:

Mount Horeb, WI -- Mount Horeb Primary Center, a public elementary school where a 6-year-old student had just transitioned from a boy to a girl.

What part of "transitioned" makes you think surgery? At that age since there aren't any secondary sex characteristics on the body, it is easy to pass off as the opposite gender. Transitioning is as easy as changing clothes in this regard.

That is not transitioning. That is cross-dressing. The boy has not transitioned to a girl, because that requires surgery.

Well that was an over simplification. First off, transitioning is a process that takes years. In the case of a 6 year, it is a process that won't start the physical aspects until they are a teenager or later. But yes, at the age of six the act of transitioning is literally just changing your clothes. Oh and adopting an opposite gender name as well I guess.

originally posted by: Anosognosia
a reply to: kaylaluv

Regarding the suicide thing, are you saying that there are a lot of cases with 6 year old's committing suicide? Or committing suicide due to gender identity issues?

Excuse me for stepping in here if I may? Suicide, or the potential of it even in young children is what usually finally gets a parent motivated enough to seek professional assistance and take seriously what their children are telling them. Not many details are provided about the child in the OP, which is good thing for reasons of privacy but it was noticed by teachers and parents she was exhibiting signs of depression and anxiety at least a year prior to her transition. When you think that a young child that age would be depressed enough to even think about dying or suicide or self-harm, you can darn well believe this issue is deeply fundamental to their existence.

Childhood is supposed to be a happy time but many of these children would rather be dead than to be something they don't feel themselves to be. I don't have actual numbers or statistics, which would be discredited by some anyway, but do know the stories, histories and testimony of some of the parents of these children who all feel this is a very serious matter and self-harm or suicide is one of their biggest fears.