Community rallies behind 6-year-old transgender girl

a reply to: kaylaluv

I am sorry I couldnt get passed "Jazz Jennings" lol

These things live in a universe I want zero part of

originally posted by: mwalker


These things live in a universe I want zero part of

I could say the same for you.

a reply to: kaylaluv

So why are you suing people who dont want to bake your cake? Or perform your wedding ceremony? Forcing someone who wants nothing to do with you to take an active role in your life is the opposite of what you just said. Are you confused about everything in this life?

a reply to: mwalker

Her name? really?

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: mwalker

Her name? really?

When you have the pick of the entire universe of names and you go with Jazz Jennings you got some major mental problems.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Oh here you go . I don't think you are going to like the results though. This is just one such article I found on the subject this one just happens to come from a somewhat noted think tank.

Here is a quote from the Karlinska Institute. The study people were touting as proof of different brain make up of homosexuals and transgender which is linked in the article below.

Sweden: Sex Change for Children

"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."

From the same report which links another study.

"When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings." — Paul R. McHugh, Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

There are several more quotes from Paul McHugh in the article. He seems to be somewhat of an authority who has been working with transsexuals for 40 years and is critical of sexual reassignment surgeries.

Your question was a bit loaded as this is a recent phenomenon (treatment) and the treated children are still being studied. However we can go back to more ancient cultures which thrive today and see the results. We can look at groups like Hijra in southeast Asia. They have been around for thousands of years. Have been "accepted" (not killed)
and are even considered third gender by government. They usually are taken in as runaway children and live in communities with gurus. They are raised with plenty of acceptance compared to western standards and are still pariahs even after centuries and have to resort to being sex workers and all that that entails.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Ok, here are my thoughts on your link:

1. Gatestone Institute is a known right-wing think tank, so it doesn't surprise me they don't like transgender people. I'm not convinced we are seeing a non-biased article here.

rightweb.irc-online.org...

2. The government study linked doesn't list the ages the subjects were when they had their surgeries, i.e., did they already go through the irreversible effects of puberty before the surgery? Since hormone blockers are relatively recent, and this study was started in the 1970's, I'm assuming the vast majority of subjects had their surgery AFTER puberty's effects - not as successful a transition leads to not as happy results. I'd like to see specific results of subjects who had surgery without the effects of puberty to see how the results differ.

3. Your first quote is not saying that the surgery is a bad idea. It is saying that surgery alone may not be enough - you need better therapy afterwards. I still posit that not going through the effects of puberty will fix a lot of these issues. Can you prove me wrong?

4. The comment about 70-80% of children suffering from gender dysphoria losing those feelings only proves that hormone blockers are a good idea - wait on puberty for a while so the kids have time to decide. If they change their mind, stop the hormone blockers and puberty happens normally - no harm done. The other 20-30% who do decide to move forward will be able to have the surgery with no puberty effects which makes the surgery that much more successful.

originally posted by: mwalker
a reply to: kaylaluv

So why are you suing people who dont want to bake your cake? Or perform your wedding ceremony? Forcing someone who wants nothing to do with you to take an active role in your life is the opposite of what you just said. Are you confused about everything in this life?

Don't want to bake a cake? Then don't get in the cake baking business. Simples.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: mwalker
a reply to: kaylaluv

So why are you suing people who dont want to bake your cake? Or perform your wedding ceremony? Forcing someone who wants nothing to do with you to take an active role in your life is the opposite of what you just said. Are you confused about everything in this life?

Don't want to bake a cake? Then don't get in the cake baking business. Simples.

You say you dont want anything to do with bigots. But when a bigot doesnt want to bake your cake, you force him to. LOL

You are soo confused.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I think people are getting things mixed up here when they shouldn't.

I would say the majority of people that aren't okay with this story in particular is the fact of the age.

Do you not see why people might be concerned with that?

a reply to: Anosognosia

Concerned with what? There is no surgery and no drugs involved here. A 6 yr old boy has been telling his parents that he is a girl - he wants to dress like a girl and have a girl name. Instead of beating him into submission, or making him a basket case by telling him he is wrong for having these feelings (when those feelings aren't hurting anyone), they are allowing her to be who she is. The community is supportive, which makes her not feel bad about herself.

Would you rather the parents brow-beat the kid, tell her she's a fruitcake, that no one wants to be in the same universe where she is, or slap her in the mouth to straighten her out?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: NihilistSanta

Ok, here are my thoughts on your link:

1. Gatestone Institute is a known right-wing think tank, so it doesn't surprise me they don't like transgender people. I'm not convinced we are seeing a non-biased article here.

rightweb.irc-online.org...

Uh, yeah. Here's a bit more on Carlqvist, who is just a journalist.

Carlqvist and the political worldview of Breivik Lets take a closer look at the worldview Carlqvist has. It is shows us what we can expect in the future from this new paper. Carlqvist has a worldview which is typical of the counterjihad movement. It is a worldview similar to the view of the Norwegian terrorist Breivik, who murdered 77 people last year in Oslo and Utoya. Breivik believes in the myth of “Eurabia,” the clam that Muslims are conspiring to occupy Western nations. According to him Europe is occupied by evil people that are “like the nazis,” that is the Muslims, and run by “Quislings” that cooperate with these new Nazis. (The term “quisling” was coined during WWII. Vidkun Quisling was a Norwegian who collaborated with the Nazis.). www.loonwatch.com...

And McHugh? He's been totally discredited.

originally posted by: mwalker

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: mwalker
a reply to: kaylaluv

So why are you suing people who dont want to bake your cake? Or perform your wedding ceremony? Forcing someone who wants nothing to do with you to take an active role in your life is the opposite of what you just said. Are you confused about everything in this life?

Don't want to bake a cake? Then don't get in the cake baking business. Simples.

You say you dont want anything to do with bigots. But when a bigot doesnt want to bake your cake, you force him to. LOL

You are soo confused.

The bakers were sued by the state. Why? Because they broke the law.

If you choose to discriminate, pick a state that doesn't have an anti-discrimination law.

a reply to: kaylaluv

It never mentioned use of hormone blockers with the 70-80%. If you reread it it says they did not go through any medical or surgical treatments e.g. Hormone blockers.

The study does mention the minors of immigrants who went through practices like FGM which is just a primitive form of sexual reassignment. Also you did not address the comment about the Hijra which have existed for thousands of years yet there is no improvement in social status or mental well being as alluded to by the mention of them being sex workers.

You misread the quote about surgery as well. In Sweden where the Karolinska study was performed there is no requirement or recommendation for further evaluations like PET scans and other testing before surgery is considered. On top of that the issue is still a psychiatric one and that is why they say the reassignment does not suffice.

As far as the right wing stuff who cares they are quoting independent studies and researchers like Paul McHugh. There is some opinion thrown in but you cant argue with the citations.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Can we get a mod to delete the comment I am replying to? We can do without the condescending name calling. The last bastion of the desperate.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I would prefer they not make it an issue and let the child lose interest like the other 70-80% of children that were actually scientifically studied.

a reply to: Annee

Discredited by whom? He works at Johns Hopkins and has been studying this for 40 years.

a reply to: Annee

By that logic you should not be transsexual in a state that does not have specific protections set up for them.