Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

a reply to: crazyewok

I was correcting your false info - nothing more nothing less.

originally posted by: 23432

NATO supports Turks .

Do you two follow anything other then your own imaginations ?

Their notions are more "what should be", rather than "what will be".

If we think about NATO as a "European" organization ... then, NATO is a suicide bomber .... US's victory is Europe's defeat.

originally posted by: Belgianbloke

originally posted by: rigel4

Turkey #ed up ..

16 second escort... heck, this in normal circumstances this is a none event.
Why Turkey acted the way it does makes no sense.
Now if the plane was flying towards Ankara now that's another story.

Stopping the indiscriminate bombing of Turkmen civilians doesn't make sense to you ?

originally posted by: 23432
NATO supports Turks .

Do you two follow anything other then your own imaginations ?

I know mate. But that doesn't automatically mean, that I support it. It's a free country I live in, I can think what I want to.
I read alot of news when things like this come out, I try to see it from all point of views there could be.

And this today was unnecessary to say the least, you think Turkey was right in shooting down that plane?
And the FA that shot down the helicopter?
It wasn't. Direct war declaration, and I don't want to be part of a world in conflict. I like my life without war.

a reply to: voyger2

As a matter of fact when a military aircraft violates another countries airspace, ignoring warnings, it does.


Just like syria giving no warnings when it downed a turkish military jet that violated its airspace. I dont see you bitching about that - how come?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

I think if russia attacks a nato country, Britain will honor its agreement and you will be part of the vocal minority.

And I think your bat# insane and no one here is going to support a war that could kill us all to defend a terrorist supporting #ed up ME country like turkey.

If camron uses his power to bypass parliament he will find himself at odds with most the country.

If Russia went after Turkey it would assume its allies would honor the collective defense agreement and hit several NATO members at once. It can not count on a member of NATO risking the cost of not honoring its treaty which would be political death at home as well as among the global community. An attack on Turkey is an attack on all NATO nations. So Russia would follow that logic and do what it could entering a losing war to get the best advantage possible and hit places like Poland, UK, Romania etc. And it also might just hit Finland, Sweden, Georgia and Azerbiajan as well assuming the first two would support NATO and the second two as Turkeys partners. And maybe Ukraine and Moldova as well as they would likely get froggy and make some moves to remove Russia from its territory. It even might move to grab Belarus capital and leadership so it did not make the move West it has been waiting to. Frankly Russia is just in a very bad spot so if it was going to war it would try to hit as much as it could in the first strike. And then try and hold on. of course this is all unlikely.

originally posted by: Darkblade71
a reply to: rigel4

Actually, Putin messed up as he had already been warned by Turkey about it last month, and he disregarded their warnings, and lost a plane.

Guess he should have listened.

The whole world is fighting the big bad ISIS, Turkey says it wants to stop ISIS. You would expect they could be a bit more lenient towards airspace. 16 SECONDS.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rigel4

Let me ask -

How many violations is required in order to draw a line and say no more? If this were the first time russia violated turkish airspace I would agree their response was over the top. Since its not the first time Russia OR Syria violated turkeys airspace, with turkey making it known what the response will be, turkey acted appropriately.

as for ROE that was because he tried using roe's from 1953 - hardly applicable.

If that is the case you must be under the impression that it is open season on every other single nation that enters another countries airspace? Yes? Like when the US does it to Russia, Russia has the right to blow them out of the sky?

I could see Russia waiting to attack Turks in some way....after this keeps getting worse.I doubt Turkey will even last in NATO in the future.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: SBargisen

originally posted by: victor7

HOW DARE THIS DEGENERATE NATION BRING US ALL TO A BRINK OF WW3..........to fulfill its DEGENERATE AGENDA.

World has to do something about the DEGENERATE mindset of certain nations.

I agree. Kick Turkey out, let them swim in their own lake.

NATO supports Turks .

Do you two follow anything other then your own imaginations ?

NATO exists for mutual defense, not for one member for pick and fight and drag everyone else into it without a by your leave. Turkey wants to do that, they need to at least get some agreements in place first. Otherwise, this is their problem.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

I was correcting your false info - nothing more nothing less.

There was no false info.

I recognised the PM could theoretically declare war without parliment.

I am just saying in practice however it would likley backfire.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: Belgianbloke

originally posted by: rigel4

Turkey #ed up ..

16 second escort... heck, this in normal circumstances this is a none event.
Why Turkey acted the way it does makes no sense.
Now if the plane was flying towards Ankara now that's another story.

Stopping the indiscriminate bombing of Turkmen civilians doesn't make sense to you ?

Technically, Russia is merely bombing terrorist. (It's how you look at it. Look at it from Russian or Syrian point of view.)
They fight the publically elected president of Syria. (Terrorism.) We in the west, or... Most... doesn't look at it like that, they see them as freedom fighters or something.


Look at the Nazis in WW2, they lost the war, so they were the badguys.
- The winners write history, not the losers.

a reply to: victor7

Instead of using $1M cruise missiles, Russia should use 1000 unguided bombs on Syrian Turkmen. Time to bring in grads and uragans on the cargo planes and pummel the Turkmen villages.

Why not just nuke them and get it over with all at once?

You do know there are more than just those who are fighting living in those villages...innocent civilians occupy it also, so killing them is okay as long as you may, or may not get all the fighters while pummeling those villages?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: SBargisen

originally posted by: victor7

HOW DARE THIS DEGENERATE NATION BRING US ALL TO A BRINK OF WW3..........to fulfill its DEGENERATE AGENDA.

World has to do something about the DEGENERATE mindset of certain nations.

I agree. Kick Turkey out, let them swim in their own lake.

NATO supports Turks .

Do you two follow anything other then your own imaginations ?

NATO exists for mutual defense, not for one member for pick and fight and drag everyone else into it without a by your leave. Turkey wants to do that, they need to at least get some agreements in place first. Otherwise, this is their problem.

Least we both agree on something. Neither of us want part of a watr defending some backward ME country stupid enough to poke the bear.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: victor7

Why not just nuke them and get it over with all at once?

Agreed! let's push the button ... let's go nuts. Let's turn this damn rock into celestial glass.

a reply to: Belgianbloke

Yep, they should be focusing on ISIS and not each other.
I do agree.

16 seconds, 16 minutes, 16 hours, time does not matter, what matters is they did exactly what they were told not to do.
After several violations of Turkey's airspace, they shot a plane down.

What I find really sad about all of this is that ISIS is getting what it wants, Turkey, Russia and probably a few more before it is all said and done will go to blows with ISIS and each other.

That is the ISIS plan,
and sadly, the world is playing into it.

a reply to: crazyewok

Not theoretically... He doesnt need parliaments approval - period.

a reply to: SBargisen

Turkey has shot down multiple aircraft, Russian and Syrian, in the past few years and no one has claimed they declared war. You doing so is not only presumptuous but ignorant. A 5mile exclusionary zone not only makes complete logical sense but is the basis of a NFZs and DMZs - you've heard of those right?

Air Law is a tricky subject but has been fine tuned to the exacting letter. In legal terms Turkey is not at fault - that my friend is it. No war has started or will start over this and it does not get them "kicked out" of NATO as you put forth. You wouldn't know what that would take.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: 23432

NATO supports Turks .

Do you two follow anything other then your own imaginations ?

Their notions are more "what should be", rather than "what will be".

If we think about NATO as a "European" organization ... then, NATO is a suicide bomber .... US's victory is
Europe's defeat.

When Soviets turned Capitalists there was an established understanding . In case of a future hostilities between Europe & Russia ; USA would stay out of it .
In return , when the Central Asia become the new frontiers , the Russians would allow West in to the bonanza .

Germens have been covertly undermining Dollars with their Euros for sometime . Maybe Nato thought yeah here is an opportunity to break up Nato .



Non Nato protected Germens and Italians vs Non Nato protected Turks .

France will of course sell the Germens out at the end .

a reply to: sosobad

Those flights don't violate airspace, they go into the ADIZ, which is a positive identification buffer zone between international airspace and national airspace.