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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: SBargisen

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: Ove38

Russia has all the right to attack Turkey if it really wants to. What Turkey did was an act of war, massively breached NATO ROE for interception of any aircraft.


Yeah, but he won't ... he's going to "claim" on paper that he is protecting the airspace. While in reality, he will have the aircraft not go to this zone. This is going to make a "safe" zone for the rebels, and eventually turn the tide on their whereabouts inside Syria. It will also show Putin and Russia as weak, and Ukraine will be lost to them as well.

Unfortunately, the Russians weren't as prepared as we thought.



I suppose that is why Russia as we speak, are reinforcing their dominance in the air, with more ground to air missile weapons in their current base in Syria, and they are moving two heavy warships down to the area, in which one of them has the possibility of carrying nuclear warheads? Alright...


Instead of using $1M cruise missiles, Russia should use 1000 unguided bombs on Syrian Turkmen. Time to bring in grads and uragans on the cargo planes and pummel the Turkmen villages.




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Ove38

What part is tripping you up about a NATO response?


What response ? What would they do ?


If you arent familiar with how NATO works may i suggest you brush up on it before posing such questions.


If russia attacked Turkey, a NATO member, NATO will respond.
I don't think they would do nothing, why should they ?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: victor7

caps doesn't make your points stronger

Man you're all rushing to judgement. This blind "Russia can do no wrong nonsense" has got to stop.

Maybe Turkey was in the wrong but we still don't have all the facts but people still jump on Russia's bandwagon. If you can claim you know who did what in less then 24 hours without being biased ...

I'll pay you money to be my fortune teller


We do know all the facts, Turkey have been very open in releasing the information. Russia have also been very open in their response.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

Again he does not need parliaments approval, as you claim, to declare war. In case you arent familiar Britain is a constitutional monarchy and the power to declare war rests with the sovereign and his/her government (prime minister). If you are going to lip off about your government maybe know something about it first.


No he doesn't officially need a vote.

But that power has not been used in recent times.

The fact he does have that power does not mean it's practical to use it!

Sorry but your sick little war fantasy won't go down here.

Again if he uses that power how do you think it will go down with the public? The rest of parliament?

Not bloodily well I can tell you!

How can you fight a war if 90% of the country is against the war?

You dam well can't!


edit on 24-11-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-11-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: Xcathdra

Link to Nato ROE is there in my message. Guess you didn't read my whole post as you replied to it after a whole minute...


You linked to a SHAFE document that references the soviet union. Again maybe a link to something current.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

That Russia claims they were only in their airspace for a few seconds. Do you have proof? What if you're wrong?

Its not like anti aircraft guns are mobile like warplanes



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I think if russia attacks a nato country, Britain will honor its agreement and you will be part of the vocal minority.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: Gin
a reply to: Xcathdra
If the aircraft is on an exit course of an extremely narrow band of airspace, interception is uncalled for.
At the halfway point, an aircraft encroaching upon airspace if on an exit course, has complied with warnings and orders and cannot be fired upon.

Do not fire upon an aircraft that is leaving or has left airspace. It is an act of war that bars you from inciting article 5, as nato is a defensive military organization and article 5 only covers a nation attacking a nato country without direct provocation of that country, or an objective act of war against your now present aggressor.

NATO is a defensive organization, not an organization used to bully larger countries behind allies. The airbase is almost in warning range of Turkish airspace. Have fun without NATO.

www.nato.int...


Damn. Good info.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: SBargisen

Yeah except that info doesnt apply. Here is a clue as to why it doesnt apply - The soviet union doesnt exist. Turkish ROE's apply.

Maybe something that is not from 1953 like the document he linked to?
edit on 24-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

Give me a break. The only thing we know for certain is that Russia violated Turkey's airspace. Turkey also claims 10 warnings and 10 violations which contradicts Russia's 16 second claim.

Soooooo you really claim to know all about the situation?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

That Russia claims they were only in their airspace for a few seconds. Do you have proof? What if you're wrong?

Its not like anti aircraft guns are mobile like warplanes


Eh? We have all the facts, including radar data. They breached the airspace once. We know given the area they breached and the speed those planes travel at; that it was only for a few seconds. Why are you so confused? You have 60 other pages to catch up on.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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I'm all for debating.. but we seem to be getting
stuck on minor details which add little to the thread!
The dangerous events of earlier today deserve better debate
than endless hair splitting.


Gin

posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: JDmOKI

The airspace Russian plane flew inside Turkey was 2,6km long. It didnt take more than some seconds to pass it through.

My take on it earlier from many pages ago.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 144211 by Gin because: (no reason given)

edit on 144211 by Gin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

Send me a link and ill catch up



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

Give me a break. The only thing we know for certain is that Russia violated Turkey's airspace. Turkey also claims 10 warnings and 10 violations which contradicts Russia's 16 second claim.

Soooooo you really claim to know all about the situation?


We know a lot more than that. Where are you citing 10 violations? It was 1 violation.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

I think if russia attacks a nato country, Britain will honor its agreement and you will be part of the vocal minority.
And I think your bat# insane and no one here is going to support a war that could kill us all to defend a terrorist supporting #ed up ME country like turkey.

If camron uses his power to bypass parliament he will find himself at odds with most the country.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

Send me a link and ill catch up


They are at the bottom of the page. You know, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... The pages.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: HumanPLC




Just hearing on Sky that the Russian Defence Ministry have stated that they can unequivocally prove the jet did not enter Turkish air space.



I bet they can...

I see Russian media eating this up...And even if it is proven they did they violate Turkish airspace they will never admit it.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: rigel4
I'm all for debating.. but we seem to be getting
stuck on minor details which add little to the thread!
The dangerous events of earlier today deserve better debate
than endless hair splitting.



Agreed, so far 2 major developments have occurred because of this.

1) Russia asking tourists to get back home and not to go to Turkey in the first place
2) Russia has suspended all its military contracts with Turkey.

Wonder what else will follow...
This is not just any powder keg.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Belgianbloke because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

lol ok.. you keep on that wishful thinking.. And again he doesnt need approval, as you claim, to decare war.

He is not bypassing parliament since they are not in the fold in the first place.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




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