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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Ove38

What part is tripping you up about a NATO response?


What response ? What would they do ?


If you arent familiar with how NATO works may i suggest you brush up on it before posing such questions.


If russia attacked Turkey, a NATO member, NATO will respond.
I don't think they would do nothing, why should they ?


You don't see the big picture, the middle east map is about to be redrawn.




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

Oh i didn't know I was supposed to go by what members of ATS spew as 100% fact.

I meant sources, not ATS



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: SBargisen

Yeah except that info doesnt apply. Here is a clue as to why it doesnt apply - The soviet union doesnt exist. Turkish ROE's apply.

Maybe something that is not from 1953 like the document he linked to?


But it still applies. Nato is defense orientated, not "Whatever the countries involved desires it to be"

According to your logic; Turkey can shoot down anyone, can attack anyone, but! If the attacked attacks Turkey Nato backs Turkey. That's not how this works.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: crazyewok

lol ok.. you keep on that wishful thinking.. And again he doesnt need approval, as you claim, to decare war.

He is not bypassing parliament since they are not in the fold in the first place.


Technically nobody needs approval to declare war. It just takes one idiot with a hard-on.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

That Russia claims they were only in their airspace for a few seconds. Do you have proof? What if you're wrong?

Its not like anti aircraft guns are mobile like warplanes


Appears to explain a lot of things



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

Oh i didn't know I was supposed to go by what members of ATS spew as 100% fact.

I meant sources, not ATS


Yup, the sources are all there. Standard ATS post protocol, ye know.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Ove38

You don't see the big picture, the middle east map is about to be redrawn.


Is this new map of the middle east also from 1953?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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Turkey better bring things down to a cool otherwise it will

a) Lose NATO membership

b) See an abrupt formation of Kurdistan

c) a huge wave of Turkmen refugees arriving to settle in Turkey



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: Gin

This isn't entirely accurate. The parameters of air defense have changed quite a lot since the pdf you've linked. NATO countries are allowed to maintain a 20mile area of controlled air space. The Unites States maintains a much larger zone. Turkey is allowed to, and has elected to maintain a 5mile exclusionary zone on it's border. The Russian aircraft involved was within that 5mile limit for quite some time. This shoot down has very little to do with NATO in fact and citing out-of-date ROE isn't helping anyone understand the volatile situation we have here.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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Surprise, surprise! Turkey may be a NATO member, but it showed itself to be a member of the umma first today.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
Turkey better bring things down to a cool otherwise it will

a) Lose NATO membership

b) See an abrupt formation of Kurdistan

c) a huge wave of Turkmen refugees arriving to settle in Turkey


I think we can expect b) and c) here.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: SBargisen

Turkey can shoot down aircraft violating its airspace. If turkey is attacked by russia and invokes article V nATO is involved. Article V cannot be invoked if a NATO member starts a war.

Turkeys actions are within the nato charter as well as the un charter.

A document from 1953 does not apply.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
Turkey better bring things down to a cool otherwise it will

a) Lose NATO membership

b) See an abrupt formation of Kurdistan

c) a huge wave of Turkmen refugees arriving to settle in Turkey


It;s not very often that I agree with you.. but on this occasion
i concur exactly with you.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

I don't just pick and choose what i want to believe. I need credible, reliable information and not many sources can live up to that.

I was mostly curious to what you were reading personally I would never browse 60+ pages of ATS rabble



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: angryhulk

He claimed the PM has to get parliaments approval. He was wrong and I provided him with the correct info.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

we will riot if you think we are going to back cameron in a war against russia for turkey.
there will be real english fighting him we will not support him .
he can not just do as he likes you know,or it will bring severe unrest something cameron
will not control ,if you do not have the support of the people you will have no force to fight for you.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: SBargisen

Turkeys actions are within the nato charter as well as the un charter.



No, it's not ... neither logically, nor literally ... and you sitting here, trying to bore everyone to silence, isn't going to make it so either.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: aholic
a reply to: Gin

This isn't entirely accurate. The parameters of air defense have changed quite a lot since the pdf you've linked. NATO countries are allowed to maintain a 20mile area of controlled air space. The Unites States maintains a much larger zone. Turkey is allowed to, and has elected to maintain a 5mile exclusionary zone on it's border. The Russian aircraft involved was within that 5mile limit for quite some time. This shoot down has very little to do with NATO in fact and citing out-of-date ROE isn't helping anyone understand the volatile situation we have here.


So technically, Syria is allowed to have a 5 mile exclusionary zone on it's borders, which is inside Turkey, and since Russia and Syria is allied, Russia was on their own turf. (This gives a 10 mile exlusionary zone, in which both countries may fly.) This logic is flawed.

- Turkey made a war declaration, that is it.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: victor7

NATO issued its support for Turkey.

Please link to where turkey will lose membership in NATO or stop making crap up.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: angryhulk

I don't just pick and choose what i want to believe. I need credible, reliable information and not many sources can live up to that.

I was mostly curious to what you were reading personally I would never browse 60+ pages of ATS rabble



Yes, plenty reliable and credible sources in the pages. Enjoy.



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