Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

I must admit I do find it somewhat dubious that just last week Turkey filed an official protest with the (totally worthless) UN over Russia bombing "innocent civilians" in Syria and today they shoot one of those same bombers down over an alleged airspace violation.

Sure does smack of Turkey spoiling for a fight with the Russians over something...and contraband oil supplies being destoyed would sure explain it.

a reply to: SonOfThor

Not gonna argue with you there.
Europe is also to blame.

a reply to: sHuRuLuNi

am not victor, you have paranoia or something? And who is victor.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Sure does smack of Turkey spoiling for a fight with the Russians over something...and contraband oil supplies being destoyed would sure explain it.

BINGO! you just won the lottery!

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: Ploutonas
we have some fresh news, also israeli media reported them.


so from today, we may see many of these so called turkish minorities, become a smoke. They characterised them as terrorists and from my point of view, they will do the right thing. Nobody gives the right to any mongoloid, to enter a country, hold weapons illegaly and act at will, without respecting the country that host them, laws and ethics.

So, victor7, now you are using your SECOND account to write the same crap as before?

And BTW, if Russia is going to do this, they should really brace themselves.

Brace themselves against what? Turkey?

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
a reply to: SonOfThor

Not gonna argue with you there.
Europe is also to blame.

I will add that I have been quite busy today at work, but reading through I do agree with everything that you have posted. I also think our opinions may matter little in the grand scheme of things. I am a libertarian, live/let live, non-interventionist type of person.

Based on Obama's reaction and siding with Turkey (to an extent) and the media coverage of this event, I fear that rational heads will not prevail.

a reply to: Xcathdra

well in that video they only repeat the same warning (probably they made only one) and they say: you are Approaching turkey airspace... Approaching! not trespassing!

We can see from the following video that at the time, the ones who violate the airspace were the turks, they violate syrian airspace to shot down russian airplane.


Russia’s General Staff said that airfield radar at the Hmeymim base showed that it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.
source

Russia should send fighter escorts for their bombing missions close to the turkish border. If Turkish fighters engage russian bombers again then Russia should intercept the turkish fighters and protect their bombers. That will put the ball back in Turkey's court.

a reply to: SonOfThor

If and when # hit the fan, and for some miracle I survive what ever is coming. I hope i'l be able to tell a more honest story about how and why it happened.

Obama did what Obama had to do, can you imagine if they would have sided with Russia? Turkey is a member of the Nato after all. Can't let Russia be the good guy here, can we?

Lets see what the Russian warship does, too soon to start panicking

Not got much to add sorry
Still way too much going on at the moment but here's a pic of the Turkish border extension

Phew...Obama just assured us that none of this will interrupt the Climate Summit.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Phew...Obama just assured us that none of this will not interrupt the Climate Summit.

Next he will draw another red line

Wow, just last night i predicted something like this would happen.


War, war never changes. Dont ignore warnings that are contextually direct and imminent like this one, assuming warnings were given, which would be the appropriate step to take if Turkish air space was invaded according to the rules of engagement.

It sucks but its best to chalk this up to a #ty event. Escalation due to this event would be unwise and uncalled for. Russia simply needs to know that the area is indeed very dangerous for many reasons....including accidents where pilots stray into air space of allies, or an allied force doesnt recognize a tank on the ground, etc. Accidents with allies happen.


Its essentially collateral damage and it completely #ing sucks, but we all know better than to pull the trigger too far...

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: 23432

Nato has given Green Light to bring down the plane . Nato is picking a fight with Russian incursions into Turkmen area .

There is absolutely no evidence that this is correct. Turkey is acting within its own published rules of engagement which don't need a loop into NATO decision making.

Turkey is capable of acting without permission in a military capacity. France did not need NATO permission to hit Syria.

When a Nato country declares a framework , it consults with other Nato members . This is just a common courtesy.

Turks & USA are getting ready to establish no fly zones and putting boots on the ground to defeat Asad & ISIS .

The green light has been given when there were no objections to Turkish published frame work i.e sets of rules to deal with a situation like this one we have .

On this instance , the Soverignty of Nato and lives of Turkmens in Syria are overlapping .

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: 23432

Nato has given Green Light to bring down the plane . Nato is picking a fight with Russian incursions into Turkmen area .

There is absolutely no evidence that this is correct. Turkey is acting within its own published rules of engagement which don't need a loop into NATO decision making.

Turkey is capable of acting without permission in a military capacity. France did not need NATO permission to hit Syria.

When a Nato country declares a framework , it consults with other Nato members . This is just a common courtesy.

Turks & USA are getting ready to establish no fly zones and putting boots on the ground to defeat Asad & ISIS .

The green light has been given when there were no objections to Turkish published frame work i.e sets of rules to deal with a situation like this one we have .

On this instance , the Soverignty of Nato and lives of Turkmens in Syria are overlapping .

originally posted by: Obi88

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I lean towards Russia doing it, but open to their side, we will find out eventually. If they did, them being shot down is nothing wrong.

Why would Turkey shoot it down ? They know the "world" is trying to defeat Isil, why shoot it down if it didn't threat Turkey ? And why arnt Turkey helping russia in the fight ? Ask yourself these questions.

Bam you are spot on the money with these very and I do mean very simple questions!

Why would they not actively be engaged in fighting Daesh.... oh wait I suppose I do not have to ruminate on these questions for too long, since it is clear as day. They have been arming, funding, and training these mercenaries and you know what, we may as well call them what they are NATO's secret army! That really is no secret if anyone has been paying attention to what Syrians have been saying for 5 flipping years as they have been slaughtered by said army.

originally posted by: Obi88
Rt news just reported the bomber never left Syrian airspace.As reported by the Russian defence ministry.

Also known as the Ministry of Truth.

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: Xcathdra

in terms of bitching, i only see one bitch around here... for more than 60 pages you always say the same ####.

You neglet the higher consequence of turkey procedings: Russian are/were fighting agaisnt terrorists, turkey is not the target, russian airplanes violated turks airspace only once and for 17 seconds, in a territorial "meshed" borders (turkeys border goes inside syria in tiny place) that coud be consider a pilot's mistake.

I'm certainly no fan of Russia or Putin's military actions, but I agree in this case. Even if the violation was as Turkey said [and I think it was], it's geometrically very small over a peninsula of land sticking into Syria. It was obvious from the course that the Russian bomber was on it usual path and not making any aggression into Turkey and would soon be leaving, and had no intent to enter Turkish airspace any further.

I believe it likely that the Russian pilot did not believe he was going into Turkish airspace and had not planned to.

Exaggerated and unjustified---obviously the given excuse is not what the reality is about---Ergodan being angry at Russia for bombing its allies in Syria. Assad winning would be a huge blow to Ergodan's ego and popularity, as he has attached himself to the rebel cause too much.

This is Ergodan pissing on another dictator's shoes.

I also find it somewhat telling the US sent a squadron of F-15C aircraft to Turkey at the beginning of the month. The F-15C is only armed for air-to-air combat roles, and is one of the most proven air combat assets in the world. Why would such an advanced platform be required against the Syrians? Unless it wasn't deployed for the Syrians, but rather the Russians instead.

Did someone know in advance that Turkey and Russia were going to be dancing partners in the very near future?????

Erdogan in June 2012