As States Turn Away Refugees – All Paris Attackers Identified So Far are EU Nationals

a reply to: soficrow

And the same arguments are being made today to turn away the Syrians as were made to deny Jews entry in WW2.

ASK B o why he refused Yazhidis and Christian Syrians. I'll wait.

a reply to: soficrow

I must admit I did not read your thread because your title seems inaccurate.

Source

Sunday's revelation that at least one of the Paris terrorists who killed more than 120 people on Friday entered Europe as just another face in the crowd -- embedded in the current wave of Syrian war refugees. The development appears likely to fire up the security debate over what to do with them.

After that passport was found another person was detained with the same passport information indicating there were multiple forged Syrian passports, probably being used for the sole purpose of gaining access to the EU on the basis of being syrian refugees. These specific passports appear to have been forged in Turkey and used to gain access to the EU via Greece.

So your entire premise is wrong as ISIL/ISIS/DAESH is using the syrian refugee scenario to plant their extremists in western countries.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: 0bserver1

So Belgium is lax about vetting refugees, and needs to fix its system. That may be. Still, it does not seem that the real problem is with the refugee population. Seems there are more homegrown terrorists in Europe than imported ones. [Thinkin' IRA now, not just IS.]

Actually the lax policies of the past immigration is what allowed the problems we now see in Europe. Say what you will, Europe for the most part did a piss poor job by letting in too many radicals as immigrants in the past. Add on top of that the lack of any meaningful integration of those immigrant populations into mainstream Euro life and you have the slum class of second generation kids that are easily swayed to be radicalized and have no real ties to Europe. It was a recipe for disaster to begin with, truth be told.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: stevieray


Let's be clear on one topic. I never called you a liar, nor would I ever. we have some disagreements, for sure, but I would never call you a liar personally.

I said "Talk radio and fox news pundits lie and are untruthful, that we know for a fact." This would be a whole other thread, but it's relevant here because, some of the fear mongering on the Syrian Refugees is caused by right wing pundits. I realize that left wing pundits lie to.

I stand by that statement. People like Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Bill ORielly, Michael Savage, Dennis Pragar. We know these are some of the most popular Right wing pundits and they have a history of lying and you can't trust anything they say. That is fact.

Go back, read my post, and see that I didn't say you called me a liar.

I was PO'd about your canned little memes, all untrue. And you can't stop apparently - "Can't trust anything they say" is a childish meme. You may call them biased, or whatever floats your boat, but stop with the ridiculous statements already, as though the world has pre-approved them all.

Every outlet and talker has been caught in something or other, said to be "lies". Just stop with the hyperbole as though its mandatory that we all agree. It's also not just a who's who of conservatives. Cronkite, Rather, and Williams have been caught in likely the worst 3 ever. Whoopi Goldberg said Polanski's rape of a child wasn't "rape rape".

So stop with the patently untrue little campaign already.

I don't think they're memes or anything of the sort. I'll turn on the radio once in a while on a long drive and I'll turn on Fox news once in a while to see what they're saying. It's usually all propaganda. And it's mean and whining and divisive.

In fact, I'll take it a step further and I would call those pundits traitors to this country. All that I listed are horrible people. That is no meme. no joke no canned response. That is my real feelings based on research, reading and listening to them.

Let's take Limbaugh for one example, calling the pope a communist because he disagrees with his position on poverty and climate change. Calling Obama the worse president ever, when, if you research it, he's not even close to being our worst president.

You have to wonder why right wing pundits lie so much. My theory is that they get paid to divide us. It works really well. I pity anyone who listens to those lies. ON a daily basis, people get brainwashed and indoctrinated and it's criminal.

Yes, it's a meme, I've heard it a million times. By trying to save the country from communism, racial strife, bankruptcy through redistribution and taxation to support it, from social buffoonery like Jenner and Kanye, the slow rot of illegal and muslim invasion........"conservatives are traitors". It's one of the biggest memes out there.

Progressives have been tearing at the constitution, capitalism, religion, and tradition for 100 years. It's a meme straight from Alinsky to do these things ad nauseum, then call the other guy a "traitor".

Sorry pal, you're throwing nonsense at somebody who actually knows the fabric and template of these things.

You're almost elementary in your one-dimensional recital of it all.

The right wing pundits lie so much. Yet you don't have any interest in Cronkite admitting he lied to change the course of the Vietnam War. Or Rather lying to affect a presidential election. Or whoopi excusing child rape besause it's her guy. Or Candi Crowley literally helping Obama during a debate.

Nah, sorry, you're so slanted you can't even feel it.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: soficrow

half right. there are many reasons for terrorist to hide as a refugee and the biggest being that terrorist are not welcome to come to the uas but refugees are. The bigger the refugee influx then the easier it is to hide among them.

Granted. But why would Middle Eastern terrorists bother to relocate? They'd be a liability in any operation away from 'home.' [Don't know the language or understand the culture, etc.]

DJW001

Refugees would be worse than useless in an operation like this. The attackers knew the city and its rhythms; refugees would stick out like a sore thumb.

I think the 'problem' of terrorists disguised as refugees is far less significant than the potential for some skinhead going postal in the heartland. Any decent security and vetting system should weed out the odd terrorist (the numbers wouldn't be that high), and they'd be there for recruitment, not operations (both of which might be done more effectively on the Internet anyway).

???

We're talking about the killing and maiming of hundreds this week. Not the "potential" of something that didn't happen, by somebody you don't care for.

But it's another good derail, that's for sure.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: soficrow

And the same arguments are being made today to turn away the Syrians as were made to deny Jews entry in WW2.

ASK B o why he refused Yazhidis and Christian Syrians. I'll wait.

It's shameful we have just let the groups most vunerable and effected by events there just hang in the wind. Even in Iraq the once thriving Chaldean population is dwindling. At least many of them got out before things turned to crap.

a reply to: stevieray

I almost feel bad. You seem like a decent person, actually trying to converse. But your blinders and obstinate slant are really annoying, as you repeat them over and over.

a reply to: DJW001

because the first reporters have not had time to fully check the facts.

ummmm probably more likely damage control by CFR controlled media puppets. Just like when BO was running for Prez and his own website changed his birth certificate.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
a reply to: earthling42

Ummm aren't the yazidi girls fighting against IS? I read that a third of the force is women? Just a thought that's all.

Ya they are. I notice they aren't cutting and running! And ISIS has tried repeatedly to over take them. Yet we're not arming the yazidis. It's a tragedy

Them and the Kurds are the only people worth backing. The Shia and Sunni hate each other and all other religions. The only reason the Kurds aren't expanding more is lack or arms and no desire to take over any Sunni or Shia lands and the whacko's that are there. The Kurds though mainly Sunni, want no part of the Wahabi Daeesh bunch. They seem the most tolerant people in the Middle East along with the Lebanese. Every one else seems crazy to me.

a reply to: pavil

Add on top of that the lack of any meaningful integration of those immigrant populations into mainstream Euro life and you have the slum class of second generation kids that are easily swayed to be radicalized and have no real ties to Europe. It was a recipe for disaster to begin with, truth be told.

And exactly what someone seems to be trying to accomplish here in the States with the help of unwitting liberal idealists.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: soficrow

I must admit I did not read your thread because your title seems inaccurate.

....your entire premise is wrong

Have you ever posted a news article? The rules say you MUST use the published headline word-for-word. You also MUST post a relevant snippet from the news article. ...It's mostly a straight up 'report' on someone else's article.

Headline of source news article:

(must be the actual, word-for-word, original headline)

Relevant snippet from news article:

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: 0bserver1

So Belgium is lax about vetting refugees, and needs to fix its system. That may be. Still, it does not seem that the real problem is with the refugee population. Seems there are more homegrown terrorists in Europe than imported ones. [Thinkin' IRA now, not just IS.]

Actually the lax policies of the past immigration is what allowed the problems we now see in Europe. Say what you will, Europe for the most part did a piss poor job by letting in too many radicals as immigrants in the past. Add on top of that the lack of any meaningful integration of those immigrant populations into mainstream Euro life and you have the slum class of second generation kids that are easily swayed to be radicalized and have no real ties to Europe. It was a recipe for disaster to begin with, truth be told.

S&

As I said, it does not seem that the real problem is with the new refugees. Seems there are more homegrown terrorists in Europe than imported ones. [And whatever happened to the IRA guys?]

As I said, it does not seem that the real problem is with the new refugees. Seems there are more homegrown terrorists in Europe than imported ones. [And whatever happened to the IRA guys?]

And as I've said it's PAST policies that have come to a boil. The current wave is just going to repeat it on Steroids. If you don't learn the lesson, you're doomed to repeat it.

So you posted a misleading article without vetting it?

a reply to: soficrow

I saw two in the grocery store last night. A fat, 50 ish woman with the head covering and long dress. I honestly can't say if she was Syrian or Bosnian but from somewhere down there. Her pot bellied husband was dressed more casually, gotta love the sandals and socks combo. She was in a fat cart scooter. I always thought that refugees were supposed to be starving, they weren't. So they're here already in Pa, at least. On the dole like many born and bred americans.

Where are we getting that none of the attackers are refugees? They found a falsified passport from someone who entered Europe through Greece.

a reply to: soficrow
a reply to: pavil

And as I've said it's PAST policies that have come to a boil. The current wave is just going to repeat it on Steroids. If you don't learn the lesson, you're doomed to repeat it.

Yey. Except there is no wave nevertheless Europe builds walls again, thanks to Seehofer and his boyfriend Viktator Orban the trendsetter for human rights. Which is pretty much a sign of decline, reminds me of the Roman Empire.

That being said, ya all probably know about the Greek and Spanish problem of unemployment in the youth. And when I mean problem we're talking about roughly 50%, highly qualified people try to find jobs in Germany etc. Mutti got what she wanted. Take that to the rise of plain fascist parties like the Golden Dawn in Greece and the rising left with Syriza & Pandemos in Spain.
Madrid imposed a kinda pre-fascist system with high penalties for demonstrations but the neolib Rajoy has lost many of his voters, we'll see what the Catalan will do regarding their independence. The mayor of Barcelona immediately declared they don't give a sh!t about this new legislation, funny times.

To put it bluntly, our neolib/ technocrat EU Troika fired everything on the last pieces of union in Europe.

Surprisingly our politicians completely messed up this refugee-problem. Italy lost it's navy due to austerity cuts, which explains thousands of death refugees in the Med. Sea. Looks like a planned event when sailors get jailed for helping refugees intentionally, it's pretty sickening at all.
There was simply no money for anything else than banks, big corp. and the rich. So nobody actually prepared sufficiently in advance, especially not the local governance. We were in the known for years, it's plain mismanagement regarding budgets.
Given all the other points I see a pattern at work and the recent MSM propaganda kinda nails it for me. We're supposed to perceive this crisis as wave/ avalanche/ storm of IS-terrorists, fear and hate is on the rise in all of Europe.

Yes, agreed. It's all connected, planned and now we witness the seeds coming to fruition.

Some good reads:

this technocratic hollowing out of democracy is the result of a neoliberal pattern of market-deregulation policies. The balance between politics and the market has come out of sync, at the cost of the welfare state.

Jürgen Habermas’s verdict on the EU/Greece debt deal

Computer scientists and maids, waiters and temporary aircraft mechanic: Spaniards of all classes want to get away, because they have no prospect of a job. Highly qualified strive for Germany - of their ailing home they say goodbye without a guilty conscience.

Unemployment in Spain: Crash with announcement

Demonstrating near parliament without permission could result in a fine of up to €600,000, while insulting a police officer during a demonstration could cost up to €30,000.

Spanish government drafts strict anti-protest laws

Of course the using refugees is a Trojan horse.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Indigo5

I didn't mention anything about deportation, but.....hey, you supporters of open borders and refugee relocation with no meaningful vetting, when the chickens do truly come home to roost, don't look to me for sympathy or support; you won't find any.

Why would I look to you? Or your ideological kin? What you don't seem to grasp is that your fear mongering, bigotry and intolerance shares a common lineage with ISIS. You don't murder men, women and children who don't look like you or follow the same god, you just dehumanize them on the internet.

Democracy, freedom and liberty are ideals that are fundamental to mankind's survival. The sociopathic agenda of groups like ISIS are the antithesis to those ideals. Choose where you sit, but do not lie to yourself and pretend to be defending a free way of life while deriding and dehumanizing others based on their ethnicity or faith.

What was the goal of the attacks in Paris? It wasn't a military target...no fewer soldiers from france...no fewer bombs...just the opposite.

What does ISIS need to grow and prosper? To recruit?
They need hatred, bigotry and intolerance to grow toward Muslims in general.

Your ilk serves ISIS's agenda...mostly unwittingly...but the outcome is all the same.

The bigoted, dehumanizing rhetoric aimed at the 1.5 Billion Muslims of the world is gleefully received by ISIS. It is the best recruiting tool they could imagine.

They measure their success by how much the world blames Muslims at large and by how much the world trades liberty for fear.

haha, you believe that unfettered waves of illegal / unvetted muslims will make them love us and assimilate, for not asking who's a killer and who's not.

What do I believe?...I believe out of the rhetoric of intolerance that is splashed across all of ATS, yours is the least interesting.

originally posted by: raymundoko
So you posted a misleading article without vetting it?

a reply to: soficrow

His Article and the OP Headline are 100% correct. All the terrorists were EU Nationals. There are reports that one of those EU Nationals, being aware he was being hunted, entered under the assumed identity of a refugee. The reporting is mixed and unconfirmed. One interesting thing I heard is that the fingerprints for the passport the "mastermind" was using were taken upon entry in Greece, but they don't match his actual fingerprints. If the story that he used a refugee "emergency passport" is accurate...and so far it remains "un-named sources"...the fingerprint mis-match bit might infer he took a refugees travel docs after he entered Greece...That refugee might be dead somewhere. Either way, even the unnamed sources are saying that he assumed the identity of an actual refugee..And some reports say that refugee was fingerprinted in Greece and the those prints on record don't match the terrorist who was using the passport...

We will have to wait for an actual summary when the figure out what's going..I don't trust unnamed sources either way...to much agenda. Hell Pols lie even when they put their name behind it, let alone anonymously.