As States Turn Away Refugees – All Paris Attackers Identified So Far are EU Nationals

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: amazing
Too much propaganda and lies on this issue.

There aren't 10,000 able bodies Syrian men moving to New Orleans this month. All the refugees are not hugely steroid muscle goons with military training.

If you dig into this issue the one I just researched. It was a family with little children that had been living in Jordan for 3 years waiting (legally) to get into the USA. That would appear to be who we're turning away and who these brave governors are rejecting.

It's so hard to find a reliable news source on this stuff though. You start googling it and you get right and left wing propaganda up the wazoo. What ever happened to truth?

Sooooo, they're not ALL big strong men, so we shouldn't worry about a handful of terrorists being among them ?

And the ONLY part of the story we should look at is the poor little chilluns ?

Really ?

I mean.....Really ?

We should look at all cases individually as we've always done. Again, the last case I read where it might have been michigan governor...it was an actual real family with tiny children that have been waiting for 3 years. Legally.

Let's not be scared to death of everything. People are starting to get scared of their own shadows. I refuse to live in fear.

You can refuse to be scared of another attack that killed / maimed 100's, that just happened. By people of the same beliefs as those who just bum-rushed your country by the 100 thousands.

I don't think it's a great idea, but by all means do what makes you happy.

Being prepared and ready is one thing. I am. Being afraid to walk out my front door every morning? That will never happen. Remember that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees. By all means live in fear and do whatever makes you happy.

I'm not afraid to walk out my front door. Because I'm not afraid to be part of keeping criminals and bombers off my front porch. And I'm not afraid to come out the window with a shotgun in my hand.

Am I missing something ? You're proud to be killed by a terrorist because you weren't scared about them entering your country ?

I'm not sure that's the fortitude that Churchill spoke of. It certainly is the version of Neville Chamberlain. No need to be fearful of that Hitler chap....stiff upper lip and cheerio !

I never said I'd be proud to be killed.

I think you're missing my main point, and it's this. Fear of all Immigrants is irrational. That's what the media and our politicians are spoon feeding us. most of these immigrants are not terrorists they're families and if you'd take the time to research a little you'd see case after case after case of this.

The hard truth is that terrorists could come in from Canada and Mexico and that the cells that might attack us are already here and set up.

The play is that we become a nation in fear. In that case the terrorists win and our politicians win. We close our borders, we get more invasive security procedures and surveilance and we get more of our freedoms taken away. That's the play and you're falling right into their hands.

Sorry, I can't help but think you're conflating "being scared" with "doing anything about it".

You don't have to be scared, if you're simply undertaking intelligent precautions and responses.

That's what I don't like about the progressive / liberal outlook. If you react in a thoroughly logical, sensible way....and it's not exactly what the libs / progs are demanding (namely do whatever the immigrants demand).....then their only possible repsonse can be "oh hawhawhaw you're scared, and a bigot".

Do you think there's a reason why immigration has always had controls and a relatively slow pace ? Because it's always been "fear" and "bigot" and "dumb" ?

I don't think so.

The only thing that doesn't make sense around here is completely redefining the meaning and purpose and process of immigration.....and demonizing any belief that it may not be a good decision.

a reply to: stevieray

BTW, who the hell is claiming "fear" or "hate" of ALL immigrants ?

Man, I am damned sick of that crap, and you really need to stop saying it.

Just like "you say all muslims are terrorists"..........."you say all blacks are thugs"..........'"you hate all gays"

How about you stop that S**t, like yesterday ?

Nobody ever said any of that, except for people falsely accusing somebody of saying it.

a reply to: stevieray

Yeah, and I'm sick of "closing borders" being automatically assumed as wrong, bad, stupid, evil, mean, hateful, etc.

Will it still be wrong after 6 more big attacks in europe ?

Will it be wrong if the Mexican cartels are totally infiltrating American states and cities ?

These childish unyielding "truths" of the progressives are really getting old.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: soficrow

To sprinkle some salt on the wound:

FEAR AND FENCES: EUROPE'S APPROACH TO KEEPING REFUGEES AT BAY

(didn't read it yet, pretty long Amnesty report)

During the 1930s and early 1940s, the United States resisted accepting large numbers of Jewish refugees escaping the Nazi terror sweeping Europe, in large part because of fearmongering by a small but vocal crowd.

They claimed that the refugees were communist or anarchist infiltrators intent on spreading revolution; that refugees were part of a global Jewish-capitalist conspiracy to take control of the United States from the inside; that the refugees were either Nazis in disguise or under the influence of Nazi agents sent to commit acts of sabotage; and that Jewish refugees were out to steal American jobs.

Many rejected Jews simply because they weren’t Christian.

In recent days, similar arguments are being resurrected to reject Syrian refugees fleeing sectarian terrorists and civil war.
...

Anti-Syrian Muslim Refugee Rhetoric Mirrors Calls to Reject Jews During Nazi Era

S&F!

Thanks. Great links! And yes, it's true - people do get SO afraid. Why? Are they just hanging on to their bread crusts? Is it about recession? Fear of more competition for jobs and economic security? ...Or is it just fear of difference?

Throughout 2015 Europe has seen how an unprecedented number of people, travelling irregularly, have reached its shores. This has become the worst global refugee crisis since the end of World War II.
[//ex]

originally posted by: stevieray
a reply to: stevieray

BTW, who the hell is claiming "fear" or "hate" of ALL immigrants ?

Man, I am damned sick of that crap, and you really need to stop saying it.

Just like "you say all muslims are terrorists"..........."you say all blacks are thugs"..........'"you hate all gays"

How about you stop that S**t, like yesterday ?

Nobody ever said any of that, except for people falsely accusing somebody of saying it.

I'm not calling you out on it specifically but you're leaning that way. I should have said fear of all Syrian refugees, a refugee is a little bit different than an immigrant. Refugee has the implied meaning, that you had to leave quickly to escape a crisis. I'd Say ISIS raping and beheading you and russian and assad dropping bombs on you and torturing you would qualify. Which is why this situation is different than normal immigration and would need to happen more quickly. I'm not saying that the government is doing everything right with this, but you need to look deeper than the right wing propaganda machine. Talk radio and fox news pundits lie and are untruthful, that we know for a fact.

This last sentence is not aimed at you but to a large percentage on the Right/Conservative. They fear "all Immigrants" you see this with the syrians and with Mexicans and further down south with the south american refugees.

a reply to: deadeyedick

I have learned that the info that first is reported in these cases usually gets changed.

That's because the first reporters have not had time to fully check the facts. Usually, they will go with plausible rumors just to have something to say.

a reply to: soficrow

Yes, absolutely nothing and nobody have changed since the 1930's. It's exactly the same. Today's concerns and issues are exactly the same as anti-semitism in 1934.

And afraid ! Not possible that anybody's simply doing what they think is the correct response.

a reply to: stevieray

Man, some are working and wishing so hard for the blame to be on euro citizens. That's bizarre and disturbing all on it's own.

Some people are working even harder to put the blame on refugees. Refugees would be worse than useless in an operation like this. The attackers knew the city and its rhythms; refugees would stick out like a sore thumb.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tmeister182

They are second or third generation citizens who are fed up with being treated as second class citizens.

Did you just advocate for this behavior

Well thank you for letting us know where you stand!

Getting desperate are you? Have to twist others' words do you? ...No WAY did DJW001 advocate terrorists' behaviour. He didn't even speak to motivation, just the backdrop - "They are second or third generation citizens who are fed up with being treated as second class citizens."

I understand that people are afraid and just want to hang on to their little piece of the pie. So talk about your fears, their foundation and what you see as feeding them - no need to misrepresent others' viewpoints.

For shame.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: stevieray
a reply to: stevieray

BTW, who the hell is claiming "fear" or "hate" of ALL immigrants ?

Man, I am damned sick of that crap, and you really need to stop saying it.

Just like "you say all muslims are terrorists"..........."you say all blacks are thugs"..........'"you hate all gays"

How about you stop that S**t, like yesterday ?

Nobody ever said any of that, except for people falsely accusing somebody of saying it.

I'm not calling you out on it specifically but you're leaning that way. I should have said fear of all Syrian refugees, a refugee is a little bit different than an immigrant. Refugee has the implied meaning, that you had to leave quickly to escape a crisis. I'd Say ISIS raping and beheading you and russian and assad dropping bombs on you and torturing you would qualify. Which is why this situation is different than normal immigration and would need to happen more quickly. I'm not saying that the government is doing everything right with this, but you need to look deeper than the right wing propaganda machine. Talk radio and fox news pundits lie and are untruthful, that we know for a fact.

This last sentence is not aimed at you but to a large percentage on the Right/Conservative. They fear "all Immigrants" you see this with the syrians and with Mexicans and further down south with the south american refugees.

No, I'm not leaning that way. Stop with your damned false accusations already.

No, we don't know that anybody who disagrees with you is lying and untruthful....... a "fact". Stop already.

No, a large % of right / conservative does not fear "all" of anybody. Quit the damned bulls**t. The only consistent theme in conservatives is "follow the damned law and constitution". Doesn't even matter who it is.

You need to learn how to make a point and debate a topic without a bunch of canned falsehoods.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Indigo5

I didn't mention anything about deportation, but.....hey, you supporters of open borders and refugee relocation with no meaningful vetting, when the chickens do truly come home to roost, don't look to me for sympathy or support; you won't find any.

Why would I look to you? Or your ideological kin? What you don't seem to grasp is that your fear mongering, bigotry and intolerance shares a common lineage with ISIS. You don't murder men, women and children who don't look like you or follow the same god, you just dehumanize them on the internet.

Democracy, freedom and liberty are ideals that are fundamental to mankind's survival. The sociopathic agenda of groups like ISIS are the antithesis to those ideals. Choose where you sit, but do not lie to yourself and pretend to be defending a free way of life while deriding and dehumanizing others based on their ethnicity or faith.

What was the goal of the attacks in Paris? It wasn't a military target...no fewer soldiers from france...no fewer bombs...just the opposite.

What does ISIS need to grow and prosper? To recruit?
They need hatred, bigotry and intolerance to grow toward Muslims in general.

Your ilk serves ISIS's agenda...mostly unwittingly...but the outcome is all the same.

The bigoted, dehumanizing rhetoric aimed at the 1.5 Billion Muslims of the world is gleefully received by ISIS. It is the best recruiting tool they could imagine.

They measure their success by how much the world blames Muslims at large and by how much the world trades liberty for fear.

So people become what they say they hate. Funny how that works.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tmeister182

They are second or third generation citizens who are fed up with being treated as second class citizens.

Did you just advocate for this behavior

Well thank you for letting us know where you stand!

Getting desperate are you? Have to twist others' words do you? ...No WAY did DJW001 advocate terrorists' behaviour. He didn't even speak to motivation, just the backdrop - "They are second or third generation citizens who are fed up with being treated as second class citizens."

I understand that people are afraid and just want to hang on to their little piece of the pie. So talk about your fears, their foundation and what you see as feeding them - no need to misrepresent others' viewpoints.

Fort shame.

You can't make a post without the little playground jab of "fear", can you ?

And where the hell is Fort Shame ? Near Fort Knox ?

At some point unending, unfettered mockery and derailing of legitimate concerns, becomes support, absolutely.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: deadeyedick

I have learned that the info that first is reported in these cases usually gets changed.

That's because the first reporters have not had time to fully check the facts. Usually, they will go with plausible rumors just to have something to say.

No it is because the whitehouse is following the news and when things are said that goes against the pres. plans then it is removed from the news. That is a mandate of the patriot act. They do not confirm news unless it is credible because they are held accountable. It was confirmed that 5 refugees were taken into custody in st denis. It is also confirmed that numerous other refugees have been locked up in france since the raids began but no arrest tied to refugees are being reported.

originally posted by: darkbake
It is hard to convince people that not all Syrian refugees are terrorists, but this information does go to show that none of them are - I bet a bunch of these people took trips to the Middle-East, though, at one point or another.

I think the main point is that the refugees are trying to escape the terrorists. And terrorists do not need to disguise themselves as refugees. We grow our own.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If we want to preserve our Constitution, if we want have the freedom to worship our traditional religious beliefs, if we want to be patriotic and courageous Americans, if we want our children to have the freedom of religion that we have, then we have to take action and lead by examples that allow us to maintain these traditions that we care about. If this means allowing refuges into our country under tough scrutiny -- then so be it.

We're Americans, and we're tough. Are we going to let a terrorist network win? If we start taking away someone else's religious freedom, soon it could be our very own that is being taken away. If we want to preserve what we already have -- we need to make sure we afford it others equally.

Well said. True too.

a reply to: soficrow

half right. there are many reasons for terrorist to hide as a refugee and the biggest being that terrorist are not welcome to come to the uas but refugees are. The bigger the refugee influx then the easier it is to hide among them.

a reply to: deadeyedick

No it is because the whitehouse is following the news and when things are said that goes against the pres. plans then it is removed from the news. That is a mandate of the patriot act.

Please quote the appropriate provision in the Act.

a reply to: soficrow
Making statements about preserving the constitution is a joke at this point. Too many have had their way with it in back rooms. The only part that remains is the part that lives in the hearts of americans.

originally posted by: soficrow

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Indigo5

I didn't mention anything about deportation, but.....hey, you supporters of open borders and refugee relocation with no meaningful vetting, when the chickens do truly come home to roost, don't look to me for sympathy or support; you won't find any.

Why would I look to you? Or your ideological kin? What you don't seem to grasp is that your fear mongering, bigotry and intolerance shares a common lineage with ISIS. You don't murder men, women and children who don't look like you or follow the same god, you just dehumanize them on the internet.

Democracy, freedom and liberty are ideals that are fundamental to mankind's survival. The sociopathic agenda of groups like ISIS are the antithesis to those ideals. Choose where you sit, but do not lie to yourself and pretend to be defending a free way of life while deriding and dehumanizing others based on their ethnicity or faith.

What was the goal of the attacks in Paris? It wasn't a military target...no fewer soldiers from france...no fewer bombs...just the opposite.

What does ISIS need to grow and prosper? To recruit?
They need hatred, bigotry and intolerance to grow toward Muslims in general.

Your ilk serves ISIS's agenda...mostly unwittingly...but the outcome is all the same.

The bigoted, dehumanizing rhetoric aimed at the 1.5 Billion Muslims of the world is gleefully received by ISIS. It is the best recruiting tool they could imagine.

They measure their success by how much the world blames Muslims at large and by how much the world trades liberty for fear.

So people become what they say they hate. Funny how that works.

Nah, I don't think it's a logical construct to say that if I respond to you for killing 3000 or 300 people, I've "become you".

Nah, not really. Makes no sense whatsoever.

You know, when it becomes 100% circular logic that ISIS actually does gain ever growing support, if we dare respond to their bombings and mass murders...........then you have absolutely nothing left but the massive, doomsday response.

It's how we got to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Somewhere, somebody in Japan thought it was a great idea to say "haha, we'll never stop until you kill every last living thing on our island, and we kill another 300,000 of your sons".

Well guess what, we decided that it was still better to kill half the people on their island, to avoid their even worse threats.

If this becomes the M.O. of ISIS and the rest of the gangs running the middle east, be careful of what you threaten. Getting half of what you dare the other guy to do, may be very, very bad.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: soficrow
Making statements about preserving the constitution is a joke at this point. Too many have had their way with it in back rooms. The only part that remains is the part that lives in the hearts of americans.

That, and it's a nifty way to beat America, especially by anti-America Americans. Keep beating the drum that you have to allow enemy combatants their constitutional rights to keep attacking America. Even non-citizens lol. Nothing new, they were doing it for the communists and ACLU in the 50's.