For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

For those interested, yes it is quite possible I am wrong, however - it is also quite possible that I am right.
I did mention in an earlier post that I question this myself regularly to if it is real.

Now I have been given a warning from the staff for my presentations to this thread; they did not explain what the infraction was for..? just that it expires in 72 hours.

So to comply with the ATS rules I will retire from this thread for 72 hours and then return -
unless f course for some unknown reason I become mysteriously banned..?

Upon my return I shall try my best to answer any question poised.

Please remember I did relay that I came to ATS for the best debunkers in a civilized debate.

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
Now I have been given a warning from the staff for my presentations to this thread; they did not explain what the infraction was for..? just that it expires in 72 hours.

:

The content of your posts is way off topic, this thread is strictly supposed to be about the evolution of the true pyramid from the Mastaba, which the OP more than proved factual.

The content of your posts is that an ancient technological race left the Giza blueprints on the ground at Nazca, rather than say, leaving them on an inside wall of the Great pyramid, signed "Lost race", which would have convinced everyone.

As it is, the only writing left extant on the interior of the Great pyramid are the quarry marks left by the various teams who moved the stones to the construction site, all Egyptian names. All verified beyond a shadow of a doubt. Sitchin claimed that the name Khufu on one of them was a forgery, and that spread like wildfire throughout the fringe as it was spelled wrong, because it gave them all hope that their lost race was still in play. As it turned out, it was just spelled in an archaic form, which was not understood by Egyptology when it was found. Thus pushing the authorship of Khufu and the ownership beyond any doubt. This again, you have to ignore for your hypothesis..

The other claim that the fringe usually makes about the lack of Hieroglyphs is that the Egyptians couldn't have built it, because its well known that they decorated the inside of their tombs with spells and pictures. But this is also a misunderstanding, because no pyramid up until the fifth dynasty had any decoration in them. That started with King Unas more than 100 years later. The hieroglyphs as attested by Herodotus, up until that point were always carved onto the Tura limestone casing. So again, that testifies to the fact that it is wholly an Egyptian monument, because you apparently have a lost technologically advanced race who couldn't read or write...

Finally, the claim that whoever built it must have been an advanced race, because there is no soot from torches on the roofs inside.
Fact 1. the Pyramid was built layer by layer, so the inside was exposed to sunlight, so torches on the whole weren't needed
Fact 2. the pyramid contains soot on its ceilings, from those rare occasions where torches were needed.

All of these, proven facts do not support your hypothesis. So its a bit pointless claiming you have blueprints on a different continent, when the building you are talking about, already supports its construction by Egyptians around 2550BCE.

This is without even going into the fringe belief that radiocarbon dating isn't accurate, it is, has been proven so, or that it wasn't a tomb, when it is, has been proven so, or that it is at the centre of the worlds landmasses, which it isn't, which you have to fudge the results to even start to claim, like pretending that America doesn't exist, while at the same time in your hypothesis, claiming that the builders knew about America. Which seems highly contradictory to anyone who actually understand the Ancient world, you apparently do not. Your claims for a lost technological race are firmly rooted in this culture. The claim didn't exist until the 1900s and the original source on that claim is ludicrouss, the ancients didn't believe that at all. They would know, they were there

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
Now I have been given a warning from the staff for my presentations to this thread; they did not explain what the infraction was for..? just that it expires in 72 hours.

:

The content of your posts is way off topic, this thread is strictly supposed to be about the evolution of the true pyramid from the Mastaba, which the OP more than proved factual.

Okay the infraction was for posting the Alien pic and nothing to do with my presentations so it looks like I need not refrain from this thread unless otherwise notified by the Mods.

The topic title is - For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

It is my belief because of the distinct title chosen to the thread that I may show my interpretation of WHY the pyramids were in fact built...which should also include the NazCAD Blueprints.

Now unless I am explicitly informed by a Mod that I can not reply to this thread..good news for those interested in my findings..and not so good for those whom wish to stifle me.



Poppycock to your answer that a lost civilization was 1st made aware of as a hypothesis in the 1900's - scripture recanted that tale much earlier...of course you wish to over look that.
And yes, as you see Marduk - again I have hid nothing leaving my factual birth given name on the pictures I supply.

a reply to: AquarianTrumpet

You do realize that the Nazca lines are several thousand years newer than the great pyramid, right? That fact alone disproves your entire silly 'theory'...

If you really want others to see just how wrong you are, though, make your own thread and quit trying to hijack this one.

www.parks.ca.gov...

Limitations and calibration:

When Libby was first determining radiocarbon dates, he found that before 1000 BC his dates were earlier than calendar dates. He had assumed that amounts of Carbon-14 in the atmosphere had remained constant through time. In fact, levels of Carbon-14 have varied in the atmosphere through time. One good example would be the elevated levels of Carbon-14 in our atmosphere since WWII as a result of atomic bombs testing. Therefore, radiocarbon dates need to be calibrated with other dating techniques to ensure accuracy.

So it appears that Atomic weapons created a big flub for RCD..so when was RCD introduced and refined and WHEN was Nuclear testing done? Apparently history agrees right around the same time.

www.radiocarbon.com...

Radiocarbon Dating Results

Interpretation of radiocarbon dating results is not straightforward, and there are times when archaeologists deem the carbon 14 dating results “archaeologically unacceptable.” In this case, the archaeologist rejected the radiocarbon dating results upon evaluation of the chronology of the excavation site.

There are many possible reasons why radiocarbon dating results are deemed “unacceptable.” It can be that there is an underlying depositional problem, or an unsuspected contamination, or even a lab problem. In either of the cases, it is still worthwhile to carefully consider why the radiocarbon dating results were deemed unacceptable."
Radiocarbon Dating and Archaeology

Radiocarbon dating has enriched archaeology, anthropology, and many other disciplines.
The radiocarbon dating process starts with measuring Carbon-14, a weakly radioactive isotope of Carbon, followed by calibration of radiocarbon age results to calendar years.
The sample-context relationship must be established prior to carbon dating.
Radiocarbon dating lab scientists and archaeologists should coordinate on sampling, storage, and other concerns to obtain a meaningful result.
Radiocarbon dating results can be “archaeologically unacceptable.”

Radiocarbon Scientists—Archaeologists Liaison

It is important that the radiocarbon scientists and archaeologists agree on the sampling strategy before starting the excavation so time, effort, and resources will not be wasted and meaningful result will be produced after the carbon dating process.

It must be stressed that archaeologists need to interact with radiocarbon laboratories first before excavation due to several factors."]




This kind of makes it look like the Archaeologists are in control of dating and not the RCD science professionals.
Now the RCD working with Archaeologists to preserve materials so RCD will in fact be correct of dating. Let's see now - RCD is approximately 70 years old and when was Giza excavated? Not looking good according to what's been shown so far.

Now I also read that flooding creates havoc for RCD..and it has been said that Giza has been flooded.

So from my standpoint - no RCD is not a reliable science - especially if Archaeoligists are in control of dating.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: AquarianTrumpet

You do realize that the Nazca lines are several thousand years newer than the great pyramid, right? That fact alone disproves your entire silly 'theory'...

If you really want others to see just how wrong you are, though, make your own thread and quit trying to hijack this one.

Attention MODS - could someone please step in and explain to either myself or the others whether I am off topic or not so I know whether I am allowed to continue.


Thank you.

Thread hijacking is frowned upon
start your own

btw, a few posts ago you were claiming that you came here to find debunkers,
now you are claiming that the debunkers are stifling you
and again you are going with mostly your opinion and no other support

That is pseudo science, clearly. Your claims that the radiocarbon dates are wrong, are unsupportable, your claim for instance that they are unreliable and need to be supported by other sources ignores the fact that they are supported by other sources which make them scientifically accurate and valid.

scripture recanted that tale much earlier

But you are unable or unwilling to post it
Quelle surprise

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
So from my standpoint - no RCD is not a reliable science - especially if Archaeoligists are in control of dating.

Your standpoint is remarkably ignorant then. Radiocarbon dating methods have been shown countless times to be quite reliable (to a point, and with a certain margin of error), and no archaeologists are 'in control of dating'. The fact that you would make such a statement only serves to further show that you are ignorant, and have no desire to educate yourself, if the facts don't match whatever silly preconceived ideas you have.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
So from my standpoint - no RCD is not a reliable science - especially if Archaeoligists are in control of dating.

Your standpoint is remarkably ignorant then. Radiocarbon dating methods have been shown countless times to be quite reliable (to a point, and with a certain margin of error), and no archaeologists are 'in control of dating'. The fact that you would make such a statement only serves to further show that you are ignorant, and have no desire to educate yourself, if the facts don't match whatever silly preconceived ideas you have.

I summarized what was written in the articles I posted - if you have a problem with what was written, take it up with the original authors.

It seems finally all the usual suspects have arisen to the chess game - I am indeed honored
I've been here many a year and watched you's form your special club.

However - I will take up Marduk's offer of starting my own thread regarding the Giza Solar System showing what I have written here and continuing with the saga.
There will also be a second thread released regarding NazCAD..just for fun. I like to multi task.

I truly hope to see all of you there..and please remember -
I am hoping to conduct a civilized debate WITHOUT the name calling and snide remarks.

Until then everyone - be well.
JD Jeffrey aka AquarianTrumpet

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
It seems finally all the usual suspects have arisen to the chess game - I am indeed honored

You were waiting on me? I don't know if I should feel flattered or creeped out.

I've been here many a year and watched you's form your special club.

I'm not cool enough to be in any special clubs.

However - I will take up Marduk's offer of starting my own thread regarding the Giza Solar System showing what I have written here and continuing with the saga.
There will also be a second thread released regarding NazCAD..just for fun. I like to multi task.

Can't wait. I enjoy a well written, well presented thread. Doubly so if I can disprove the premise in a matter of minutes.
I don't even come close to having the level of knowledge on the subject matter as some of the other members here, but if nothing else, it's always entertaining to watch them destroy a new 'theory' lol.

I truly hope to see all of you there..and please remember -
I am hoping to conduct a civilized debate WITHOUT the name calling and snide remarks.

Post the link(s) here when you get the thread(s) up, and I'll be there. I generally try to avoid resorting to childish name calling, but no promises on the snide remarks bit.

Until then everyone - be well.

You as well.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

The Antideluvian created this thread (and an excellent presentation I might add)
so in reality it should be up to the OP or a Mod to decide if I have done anything wrong other than the Alien pic. Neither yet has required I cease and desist.

Don't be creeped out...we've met before where you indulged in petty name calling and childish snide remarks without provocation to a thread I created. You would remember but you did it to a lot of people on different threads so it's okay if you can't keep track. I'm pleased to see you have toned down and regained your character.
Psst - I'm not in any clubs either..as you can see - I'm not allowed to play the reindeer games.

Now as you are studying to be an architect..you did mention that in a thread a while back if memory serves correct?
Then I will expect your prowess to defy the NazCAD Blueprints on my 'to be created thread'.

@Harte -
Radian math - I plaguerized Carl Munck..that's where I heard the term 1st many years ago...of course it's a fancy name for double Pi.
Correct me if I am wrong - you are an Engineer yes?
Please indulge my NazCAD thread when it is created please.

We really should stop the fun talk as it has nothing to with the thread..but I do thank everyone for their interest.

originally posted by: AquarianTrumpet
When Libby was first determining radiocarbon dates, he found that before 1000 BC his dates were earlier than calendar dates. He had assumed that amounts of Carbon-14 in the atmosphere had remained constant through time. In fact, levels of Carbon-14 have varied in the atmosphere through time. One good example would be the elevated levels of Carbon-14 in our atmosphere since WWII as a result of atomic bombs testing. Therefore, radiocarbon dates need to be calibrated with other dating techniques to ensure accuracy.

The Libby mentioned in the text there was working in the late 1940s, he won the nobel rprize for it in 1960, so any information you post about his methods are hopelessly out of date. Which I expect is the only reason you are posting it. Science has moved on.

So it appears that Atomic weapons created a big flub for RCD..so when was RCD introduced and refined and WHEN was Nuclear testing done? Apparently history agrees right around the same time.

These days they have moved on from beta collectors and Geiger counters and gas proportional counters took out the errors caused by Atomic weapons completely. They now measure just the decay, not the level of Carbon14. So now those issues are long deceased. Again you are years out of date. Cherry picking your evidence from defunct science is not convincing.

This kind of makes it look like the Archaeologists are in control of dating and not the RCD science professionals.
I also read that flooding creates havoc for RCD..and it has been said that Giza has been flooded..

Wow, just wow, the people claiming that the Giza plateau has been flooded are the Christian creationists. They state that the Great flood washed over the earth around 1500BCE and that because Giza was already built then, that it must have been flooded. They backed this up by pointing out that marine creatures have been found on the block.
In reality, there was no Great flood, Noah didn't exist and there was no giant Ark full of animals, anyone who knows the basics of Mesopotamian literature can tell you why that's invalid. The sea creatures found on pyramid blocks are fossils. Most limestone is composed of skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral, forams and molluscs., so their presence is hardly surprising. But I would urge you not to side with creationist beliefs. They won't accept your lost race either and you will just end up ridiculed by both sides.

So from my standpoint - no RCD is not a reliable science - especially if Archaeologists are in control of dating.

You have invented a conspiracy here so that you can eliminate radiocarbon dating completely from your nonsense, however, the archaeologists don't visit the labs and the radiocarbon scientists don't visit the collection sites. So there is no conspiracy, all the passage you quoted meant was that they need to collaborate, in such the archaeologists collect the samples and then usually post it to the lab, then the scientists work out the dates and send that information back to the archaeologists at the site. Collaboration is very common in Science claiming it makes the results invalid is laughable. Really really laughable, you are arguing against the scientific method which requires different types of experts to work in harmony. That does not decrease their credibility, it increases it. Its akin to your doctor worrying that you might have a brain tumour, so he sends you to a neurologist, who confirms it and then sends you to a Brain surgeon for surgery to fix it. The fact that these three different types of scientists have cured your affliction doesn't damage their credibility at all, but you are saying that the doctor should have done everything that he was not qualified to do, which as I said earlier, is laughable.


There is an error in radiocarbon dating, its usually around 2%, so something which is 4000 years old will come back with a plus or minus error of 100 years. Under no circumstances are the results thousands of years out. You need them to be more than 2500 years wrong. That has never happened and never will. So you need to find some other way of eliminating the Nazca radiocarbon dates from your hypothesis. Good luck with that, anyone who understand the science will immediately discount you as a nut who can't accept the facts...You for instance do not understand the science at all

Of course, you should write a book immediately and sell it to the fringe. They usually are so ignorant of the facts that they will buy anything you tell them and we will all see it on the history channel in the near future.

Still waiting for you to post the Bible passages that back up your claim of a lost advanced technological race. Will you be doing that soon.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
a reply to: AquarianTrumpet

You do realize that the Nazca lines are several thousand years newer than the great pyramid, right?

Not if you use "double pi math."

Harte

did any of those guys you mentioned compare the cut marks on the stonework in Egypt with contemporary experiments using bamboo technology? If not they can't claim anything. they ignore the elephant in the room just like some people around here.


a reply to: Marduk

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
did any of those guys you mentioned compare the cut marks on the stonework in Egypt with contemporary experiments using bamboo technology? If not they can't claim anything. they ignore the elephant in the room just like some people around here.


a reply to: Marduk

Still waiting for any evidence at all to back your claim, you can claim that the evidence to the contrary is poor all you want, but in the complete absence of any evidence at all from you, its all that's required

That is ENOUGH of the cheap shots at each other.

Debate your points. Not each other. Do not post ABOUT each other.

If this continues, the thread will be shut down....and post bans handed out to all involved.

Do not reply to this post.

a reply to: Marduk

Here is the link you asked for .. Genesis 11: 1-9


Genesis 11:1-9

Okay RCD does work, then I guess Sitchin was right and Aliens made the Nazca blueprints of G1.

The second part to what I was about to post finishing my representation of G1 as a replica to our solar system
shows the astronomy math correlation. You need to ask yourself why this is even possible..just another fluke?
Math and geometry tell a story quite unique unto itself.

Then there is the unmistakable code Giza has laid out.

So if RCD is correct..which I've pointed out why I think it isn't - then I'm dumb founded how this mathematical message appears and also explaining why by showing our solar system inside G1.
That would mean Aliens created a lot of monuments over the years just for us nice Earthlings.

Now I don't believe Alien interaction..nor do I believe God or Angels or Satan, Sasquatch-Yeti, Leprechauns or Unicorns created this message and monuments..nor do I believe in magical giants (nice thread by the way - I read the 1st page when it only had a few replies)
so - for me anyway - that leaves a misplaced history to an intelligent bi-pedal race on Earth.

Maybe our history is greater than we are led to believe as the Tower of Babel suggests.
(here's where I lose my new religious friends)

We all spoke one language - we could build a monument to reach the heavens.
The God's saw that we could do whatever we imagine or created..i.e - technology.
They became feared because we were powerful as they were,
so they came down and destroyed everything confusing the one world language
and scattering the people across the world.

Sounds to me like a technological civilization was nearly extinct by a
a solar catastrophe..that could just be a cyclical catastrophe left and recorded
for us by our past antideluvian ancestors.

Scripture relates two catastrophes -one by water.. Noah (Gilgamesh's story)
One of Brimstone and fire..Lot/Moses

If Earth went through a huge asteroid strike, some would fall in the oceans causing tsunami's..
and they could of been accompanied by air-bursts such as 1908 Russian Tunguska event.
Not much of a civilization would be left..especially one dependant on technology.

This is where I got my idea of a lost civilization..not Hancock.

Now a one world language - back in the day I thought that meant Air-flight, telephones, TV & Radio
but today we have the Internet and PC's. With the push of a key on my keyboard I can convert any foreign language to my language during a conversation with some of a different language, and they can do the same so we can understand each other
- now that's truly a one world language!!!

..and that was the shortest explanation without writing a chapter

A book? Novel idea I've already had offers thank you.
What you do not yet understand Marduk is that I did this for free..releasing this information.
Yes, I could use the money - that wasn't the deciding factor.
No I don't wish to be famous..I'm rather a recluse who doesn't really like people.
However, I try my best to be a humanitarian...that being said -
this message is written on the face of the planet and it belongs to ALL OF US!

No human should EVER charge another a fee so that they may know the truth to who they are

But
and its a big but

The Tower of Babel story isn't an original
Neither is the story of Noah

The Tower of Babel is based on this story which is called the Namsub of Enki

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,
There was no hyena, there was no lion,
There was no wild dog, no wolf,
There was no fear, no terror,
Man had no rival.
In those days, the land Shuber-Hamazi,
Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,
Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,
The land Martu, resting in security,
The whole universe, the people well cared for,
To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.
Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,
Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,
The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,
The leader of the gods,
The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,
Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,
Into the speech of man that had been one.

I have hot linked all the locations mentioned in the text so that you can examine them properly

As you can see from the text, the list of lands affected by this linguistics change are all in Mesopotamia. The two gods who interplay are Enlil and Enki and this text is a description of a jealous act by Enki against Enlil who was worshipped by all.
This dates to around 2000bce, so is at least 1000 years older than the Biblical narrative which is based on it and with all good stories, they get exaggerated in the retelling. Now the Lands mentioned are known to have been populated by different peoples, who migrated into the area, when they did that, their languages were already different, but from the perspective of a priest a few thousand years later trying to explain those differences with no idea about anything linguistic at all, well he said that his god (Enki) did it to confound Enlil, who was originally considered the supreme deity, but who as the years passed came to be seen as the Mesopotamia devil, because he sent the flood and tried to annihilate everyone

The Noah story is the same, in the first flood story from Mesopotamia, the Ark is made from a reed hut and has one passenger, in the second retelling he has his family and his animals and the Ark gets bigger and then in the third, again, even more exaggerated. These three flood stories all predate Noah by a thousand years as well.
You're thinking, no, the flood story can't be a jewish copy of a Mesopotamian legend,

Gilgamesh: -
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.

Genesis 7
8 And he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth

Gilgamesh
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Genesis 7
7 And he sent forth a raven, and it went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth

But the difference, in the first flood story in Mesopotamian history, its not the world that floods, its just the river, in the second story it is the land of Mesopotamia, then in the Jewish version, its the whole world.
More on the changes in the flood stories here
en.wikipedia.org...
See, the Bible texts date from the time of the Babylonian captivity, which I'm sure you aren't aware of, so here's a quick quote to sum it up for you from wiki

The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile is the period in Jewish history during which a number of Judahites of the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylonia. After the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, besieged Jerusalem, resulting in tribute being paid by King Jehoiakim. Jehoiakim refused to pay tribute in Nebuchadnezzar's fourth year, which led to another siege in Nebuchadnezzar's seventh year, culminating with the death of Jehoiakim and the exile of King Jeconiah, his court and many others; Jeconiah's successor Zedekiah and others were exiled in Nebuchadnezzar's eighteenth year; a later deportation occurred in Nebuchadnezzar's twenty-third year.

Archaeological studies have revealed that not all of the population of Judah was deported, and that, although Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. The return of the exiles was a gradual process rather than a single event, and many of the deportees or their descendants did not return.

So most of the population of Jerusalem were deported from Israel and enslaved by the Babylonians and as Jews are because of their religion educated in reading and writing, the libraries of Mesopotamia were run by Rabbi. Which is where they copied the ancient stories from, writing themselves into the narrative and exaggerating the plot to make them look even greater than the originals.


What you are then basing your hypothesis on, is again, your own misunderstanding of the facts, So if I were you, I would steer well clear of this area until you actually understand it

yer either stonewalling or just really being intentionally ignorant about what I'm saying. I am not making any claim other than pointing out what you are using as evidence has never been compared to the stonework in Giza or anywhere else for that matter so how can you claim you've proven that's how it was done? a method was shown that it can scratch and abrade granite that's it. there is no connection with Giza whatsoever. it's not my claim it is a fact there has never been a forensic comparison.


a reply to: Marduk

You made this claim repeatedly that:-

unless you forensically compare the cut marks and consistency of symmetry and tolerances you are blowing out a lot of hot air.

Now you just admitted that you haven't done it yourself

originally posted by: bottleslingguy
I am not making any claim other than pointing out what you are using as evidence has never been compared to the stonework in Giza or anywhere else for that matter

This means that your claim is baseless
So obviously, there is little point discussing this until you learn how science works, when you do, you will find out who's blowing hot air
let me know when you've done a comparison, until then, I am ignoring you


To everyone else who's been following this exchange, I hope you realise that this is the typical fringe approach, baseless claims made without any evidence, followed by a refusal to accept the facts.