Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
This is a serious question that has kind of puzzled me for years, even as a former christian I never understood it. Why blame Lucifer/Satan for the woes of this world? What did he do to mankind to deserve the kind of hate he gets? Why in the scriptures do we never see Lucifer's downfall from his perspective or at least the writers taking a more objective stance? (I know many Christians may not view Satan as an entity but more the temptation of an individual to commit morally reprehensible acts.)

If I were to examine the mythology objectively towards both characters,God's done some pretty #ed up #;

-Created Adam and Eve essentially as ignorant slave worshipers to take care of the animals he just made because he's too lazy to look after them

-Flooded the earth and saves a drunk

- Killed kids using a bear because they made fun of some bald guy

- Destroyed entire cities for petty reasons

- Makes a Pharaoh angry intentionally so he can kill more kids

- sends his followers on crusades to conquer neighboring tribes over a covenant they made with him

- allows his followers to practice polygamy but absolutely abhors same sex relations

- permits slavery but hates it when you shave and the list goes on.

Satan on the other hand;

- Rebelled against God

- Gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong

-ordered(by God!) to kill a total of ten people

-tempted his Jewish son Jesus to test his faith.

-His blamed for all the sins committed

Clearly there's some disparity here, am I wrong?

Then suddenly Humanity's supposed to just bow down to God because he sends down his Jewish zombie son, he then gets his son to "die" for us because many of us realized how ridiculous religion is. To top it all off, if we choose not to recognize his seemingly absent authority were punished for it. How loving and merciful of a father to do that to his own kids. Also what's up with the Holy ghost not getting much love?

I'm not here to debate the existent of either of the entities mentioned nor am I hear to corrupt you from your faith. Somebody seriously explain to me why God is the good-guy in this dichotomy? I'm sure this question's been asked in previous threads, if so ignore this.

In a world of very successful,, strong deceptive strategies, used by very powerful an influential spirits. Whether they be spirits of men or spirits with the former, home, in the heavens, Now confined to the realm of Earth.

If anyone wants to keep a relationship with God and not wonder if they are on the wrong side then this requires strong and cultivated FAITH.

OF COURSE the organization that is responsible for feeding their flock true spiritual food, at the proper time MUST PROVE to be a NON HYPOCRITICAL ORGANIZATION.

Once you find an organization like that,,
and the reason why I mention a organization
I do not believe that God is not organize just because there are many false prophets with organizations out there,, does not mean that, God has given up using an organization to represent or to have a physical representation of his kingdom in the heavens with a king at the head of it meaning Jesus Christ.

Only then with strong faith included,
YOU would NOT even think of this question am I on the wrong side?

Well maybe you're not on the wrong side but the people responsible for your faith has failed you that's the question.

So you think that because every organization you have turned to, or the one that you were thrown into AT BIRTH, are you going to throw up your hands and just say, "AHH,, forget it."

"FAITH" ​What It Is and Why We Need It.

What do people tend to assume about faith, and why are they mistaken?

FAITH is an appealing quality, one that all the men and women we study about in the BIBLE valued highly. Many people today tend to undervalue FAITH,

ASSUMING that it means believing without any real proof or evidence.

HOWEVER, they are MISTAKEN.

FAITH is not gullibility; it is not a mere feeling; it is more than belief. Gullibility is dangerous. A mere feeling may come and go, and even belief is insufficient when it comes to God, for “the demons believe and shudder.”​(Jas. 2:19).

Those with FAITH ask yourselves these questions,

(a) Our faith focuses on what two kinds of unseen things?

(b) How solidly grounded should our faith be? Illustrate.

TRUE FAITH TOWERS OVER SUCH THINGS.

Recall how the Bible defines it.
(Read Hebrews 11:1.) Paul said that faith focuses on two kinds of things that we cannot see.,

(One), it focuses on present realities that are “not beheld.” Our physical eyes cannot see the realities in the spirit realm​—such as Jehovah God, do you have enough faith to use God's personal name?,
HIS Son, JESUS, THE KINGDOM THAT NOW RULES IN HEAVEN.

(Two), faith focuses on “things hoped for”​—events that have not yet happened. We cannot now see the new world that God’s Kingdom will soon bring about. Does that mean, then, that our faith in such realities and the things we have hoped for is groundless?

FAR FROM IT! Paul, explained that true faith is solidly grounded. When he called faith “the assured expectation,” he used an expression that may also be rendered “title deed.”

" IMAGINE" that someone decided to give you a house. He might hand you the deed to the place and say, “Here is your new home.” Of course, he does not mean that you will live on that piece of paper; he means that the document is so legally binding that for all practical purposes, it is the house itself. Similarly, the evidence for our faith is so convincing, so strong, that it may be equated to our faith itself.

What does true faith involve?

Thus, true faith involves well-founded confidence and unshakable conviction that is clearly focused on Jehovah God and his only begotten Son Jesus Christ,

FAITH causes us to see him as our loving Father and to trust that all his promises are sure to come true. But genuine faith involves more. Like a living thing, it must be nourished to survive. It must be expressed in actions, or it will die.​ (Jas. 2:26).

Why is faith so important?
Paul provided a compelling answer.
(Read Hebrews 11:6.) We can neither approach Jehovah nor please him unless we have faith. So faith is essential if we are to fulfill the highest, noblest purpose of any intelligent creature: to draw close to and glorify our heavenly Father, Jehovah.

How has Jehovah shown that he is aware of our need for faith?
Jehovah knows how much we need faith,
so he provides us with examples to teach us how to build and show faith.

He blesses the Christian congregation with examples of faithful men who take the lead. His Word says: “Imitate their faith.”
(Heb. 13:7)
And he has given us more. Paul wrote about a “great . . . cloud of witnesses,” men and women of ancient times who left sterling examples of faith. (Heb. 12:1) Paul’s list of faithful ones, recorded in Hebrews chapter 11, is by no means complete. The Bible’s pages are rich with TRUE STORIES about men and women, young and old, from all walks of life, who lived lives of faith and who have much to teach us in these faithless times.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

So you will ignore Biblical inaccuracies with reality because Jesus. Check.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

BUT I'VE LITERALLY TESTED GOD OVER AND OVER AND OVER. ON HIS CLAIM OF BEING A MERCIFUL GOD.

So Could you elaborate more about how you went about testing God's claim of being a loving,merciful father figure?

I had to pray more than once to get that proof I had to pray a lot, over and over again and then,, then once it happen, I NOW pray to him to give THANKS OVER and OVER AGAIN. Now,, Not to request proof anymore, He's giving me plenty of that.

Again could you specifically cite your anecdotal... I mean if you're really just going to make an argument appealing to emotions and the irrational concept of answered prayer at the very least give details. This is too vague even for a christian to fully grasp. But if that's simply it, That God just magically "proved" to you and only you that he truly is the character depicted in scripture, you might want to ask God why his replies are incredibly vague for a deity who claims to have created the universe. Also if this proof doesn't meet the criteria of scientific evidence than its completely worthless.

I myself may not have scientific evidence to prove God is a fraud. What is Imprudent with that in mind is to just continue to worship this character when you haven't even heard the other side of story, all you've been told about Satan, Lucifer is entirely one sided. To ignore another individual's perspective simply because you've been told to, is nothing more than blind faith and false hope that you treasure as an honorable long-term investment for a reward so inconsequential to the life you currently live is proof to me that your stupid enough to swallow anything at face-value.

Why not study both sides?

Come back to me once you have.

At first I was on (MY SIDE) for about 17 years.
Because I had no choice I was born into it.

Then for about 7 years (I WAS ON YOUR SIDE) and it had its moments sometimes yes it was FUN but the good feelings that I got were very very short lived.

And now I'M BACK STRONGER THAN EVER and it is so wonderful,

SO YES, I have not only studied both sides but I have been on both sides.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

So you will ignore Biblical inaccuracies with reality because Jesus. Check.

Sorry I don't quite understand what you just said

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

So you will ignore Biblical inaccuracies with reality because Jesus. Check.

And you may see the Bible inaccuracies.
but I see none at all,
Although I do have to admit I used to think that way or think that I saw Bible inaccuracies but with deeper study,,

I found out that I just did not know how to understand the Bible or where to look for the proof. Or where to look where it would clarify itself.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

BUT I'VE LITERALLY TESTED GOD OVER AND OVER AND OVER. ON HIS CLAIM OF BEING A MERCIFUL GOD.

So Could you elaborate more about how you went about testing God's claim of being a loving,merciful father figure?

I had to pray more than once to get that proof I had to pray a lot, over and over again and then,, then once it happen, I NOW pray to him to give THANKS OVER and OVER AGAIN. Now,, Not to request proof anymore, He's giving me plenty of that.

Again could you specifically cite your anecdotal... I mean if you're really just going to make an argument appealing to emotions and the irrational concept of answered prayer at the very least give details. This is too vague even for a christian to fully grasp. But if that's simply it, That God just magically "proved" to you and only you that he truly is the character depicted in scripture, you might want to ask God why his replies are incredibly vague for a deity who claims to have created the universe. Also if this proof doesn't meet the criteria of scientific evidence than its completely worthless.

I myself may not have scientific evidence to prove God is a fraud. What is Imprudent with that in mind is to just continue to worship this character when you haven't even heard the other side of story, all you've been told about Satan, Lucifer is entirely one sided. To ignore another individual's perspective simply because you've been told to, is nothing more than blind faith and false hope that you treasure as an honorable long-term investment for a reward so inconsequential to the life you currently live is proof to me that your stupid enough to swallow anything at face-value.

Why not study both sides?

Come back to me once you have.

Well I can tell you the stories of how I tested God but,,,
I'm afraid that the way you think,, and if I'm analyzing your comments correctly through this whole thread,, It seems to me if I told you these stories that personally happened to me, or my personal back and forth in testing GOD,
That you may just say that they are just coincidence or you may say that my mind was playing tricks on me,

So I'm really not sure that it would do any good in your particular case or if I'm reading the way you think correctly but,,

I DO KNOW THAT THEY WERE ENOUGH FOR ME ,,
LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN, THEY WERE ENOUGH FOR ME and I myself,, I'm convinced! and I was on your side of this argument for,
(7 YEARS!)

I used to be in the entertainment industry for 7 years mostly in Vegas I've seen a lot,,

I NEVER WANT TO EXPERIENCE YOUR SIDE EVER AGAIN!

SORRY,

I HAVE HAD VERY BAD EXPERIENCES LIVING MY LIFE ON YOUR SIDE,

EVEN THOUGH I USED TO MAKE $5 to $10,000 A WEEK.

I mean no disrespect though,

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You're fooling yourself.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You're fooling yourself.

Well,,,
I could say the same thing to you.

originally posted by: Akragon
Its wonderful that you guys post your testamonies about how much you love the bible...

I love the book to, but that doesn't change what i've found within the book over the years... And i am not just a casual obvserver when it comes to bibical study

The only books that have any value in this age are the gospels...

That is the only constant when it comes to said book

Thanks for replying though

Look there is no doubt that the Old Testament is complicated and difficult to understand the first thing you have to do is make sure you have the oldest copy the oldest version of that book as possible.

One very important reason for this,
is because after the Bible was completed they no longer had, what we call today A,,
I guess you could say, firewall, that would protect the Bible from being altered to reflect the view of the copyist.

There was a protection that the Bible had for thousands of years and that was any person who was in charge of copying the scrolls or copying the Bible had to count the letters count the sentences to make sure that there was nothing added to the original thoughts of God so.

For example, if in one page or paragraph there were 7 T's or 7 letter L , then they had to make sure that the copy had the SAME, in the more modern era after the Bible was completed, copyist no longer played by those rules and it just became a trust issue but everyone knows as well as I do that in this day of age we have a problem with stories and documentation being SPUN in the direction that the reporter wants it to go so today we have a problem with copyist being biased. But regardless of that I have found that even though this is the case, if you study the Bible with due diligence there are enough clues to still get the point that God was conveying to his people, you just have to work a little harder, this is also one of the reasons that I found some contradictions that I thought were contradictions but really the copyist was trying to force a certain direction of thought so it was inconsistent with other scriptures of thought and that is where cross-referencing and cross-examination played a heavy role in understanding what God was trying to bring across to his people.

Then you have to use unbiased translators to translate it directly from that language that it was originally pend down to English then from English to whatever language you speak.

Then you have to study it like a CSI agent or a detective but before you do even that you must study the personality of the main character which is Jesus's father the only one and true God the Almighty God Jehovah.

If you do not understand Jehovah's personality, then you will with your imperfect brain, far removed from the intelligence of a perfect entity like Jehovah, you will find, what you think, are faults or inconsistencies in the Old Testament, but once you understand the way Jehovah thinks, as much as he allows you to understand, he leaves plenty of clues and you understand his purpose for man and you understand that God is talking in a language that the people OF THAT TIME could understand,
These people thought in terms of land cultivators, what was important to people back then and the language they are thinking and speaking was quite different from the way we think today.

After I did those things the Old Testament became VERY CLEAR, I no longer saw any contradictions and I'm sure that may amaze you because there are a lot of people that think there are contradictions in the Bible and I understand why they think that way, I used to think that way, but after I found out how to study the Old Testament I no longer view them as contradictions, one of the methods I use to understand what I used to think as contradictions, was CROSS REFERENCING and CROSS EXAMINE a lot, then it became VERY CLEAR.

So now I very much enjoy reading the Old Testament these days as much as you like reading the Gospels and before I realized how to tackle the Old Testament I used to only read the Gospels over and over again and if I want to relax and read the Bible then because it's so easy to understand I read the Gospels a little more than I read the Old Testament.

I say "Old Testament" only because that's the way most people refer the first half of the Bible but in my mind I do not view it as the Old Testament I view it as a TUTOR FOR GOD'S' PEOPLE to prepare them for the coming Messiah once they went through the TUTOR then they were ready for the Messiah, part of the Bible, so I don't really, anymore, separate the two, I no longer view them as being all that much different from each other.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

I'm still not seeing what it is that convinced you? IF you were an Atheist for seven years how could the depiction of God in the Bible reconvert you? Explain, I'm genuinely interested as to hearing why you went back to being indoctrinated...

originally posted by: Silenthill666007

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are

and so on and so on...

My mom told me Jesus was teaching us lessons. She said some people take the Bible too literally as every word is written by God. I believe Jesus to be an extremely intelligent teacher, but I don't look to the Bible as a history lesson.

My own personal philosophies about Satan and the "serpent"..... It used to be a male dominated society back then women didn't have rights and even today men are responsible for 95% of violent crime. Angel spelled backwards is " legna" . Men have an extra leg that looks like a serpent. It's been translated through four languages , so that might be a coincidence. I seen artistic impression by one of my favorite artists who doesn't have faith but tells religious stories. In his stories all men go to hell and all women go to heaven. People are sexually imbalanced cause of their hormones and genetic makeup. But if you think of all the men and women you know, women are generally kinder and better people.

I also got a gay cousin. I read that if a man lies with another man he should be stoned to death. Back then men were built like Troy and it might have been considered very cruel for a man to have sex with another man or male child. It might have been a painful traumatic event and maybe not love like considered today. I need to study the history of the world but I try to consider a lot of things. Maybe try to see what he meant?

Well,, keep in mind something about those days IN THE PAST,,
There were a lot of Nations that knew and just did not want to listen to Jehovah or his son Jesus Christ and they had a severe problem of being self destructive, both Jesus and his father were very protective of his people,, VERY PROTECTIVE, he knew that if they did certain things like the surrounding nations did, that his people would also self destruct and so he impressed on their minds that certain things that other nations were doing,, for example: MEN WHO LIEDOWN WITH OTHER MEN, WOMEN WHO WERE KEPT FOR UNNATURAL PURPOSES, these things were so HAZARDOUS TO THEIR HEALTH, that like a loving parent, wanted to protect the whole group from this way of thinking.

So if there was a group of people who were thinking like the surrounding nations after giving them plenty of chances to repent and stop this way of thinking, if they didn't, then God would have to get rid of those people because they were like a virus or a cancer that would in fact corrupt and destroy the whole nation if he was to allow it to continue.

So for an example: Today Jesus followers, or true Christians are supposed to respect and love any person from any background with any lifestyle but we are to hate a corrupt lifestyle, not the person we may not agree with the way they live their life but we do not reject the person, if the person wants to adjust his life to the recommendations and the commandments that are found in the Bible then we welcome them with open arms we do not treat them as an outcast and if they want to repent then we are to help them to repent.

Example: I have no fear, I have no hate, for a GAY person, but like God I am concerned with his lifestyle, EVEN ALL OF THE DATA REGARDING HEALTHY LIFESTYLES, HIS LIFESTYLE IS HAZARDOUS TO HIS LIFE,
IT ALSO PUTS OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES IN DANGER.

Now I view his lifestyle just as dangerous as the way I used to live my life which was, I had sometimes six girlfriends at one time, a heterosexual lifestyle, but an unhealthy and dangerous view of that lifestyle.

I NEED TO RESPECT THE HUMAN BODY that God has allowed us to BORROW, then we must apply his rules and regulations that keep that BORROWED HUMAN BODY or VESSEL, and try our best to keep it HOLY because our Creator is HOLY.

So the Bible shows us that if you are a practicing homosexual and you do not want to repent and try to live your life in the way God intended you to live it,,,. When the time comes for God to cleanse the earth, you will be cleansed off the face of the earth, Also.

Look at it this way,,

What if every single person on this planet was an ALCOHOLIC.

What if every single person was a WARMONGER.

What if every single person on this planet was addicted to DRUGS.

What if every single person on this planet was addicted to HATE.

What if every single person on this planet was GAY.

What if every single person on this planet was addicted to VIOLENCE.

So in order for God to keep his promise and have PERFECT PEOPLE living on a PEACEFUL PLANET FOREVER in a PARADISE EARTH the only way to achieve and MAKE GOOD ON HIS PROMISE to MANKIND to provide this type of life for people, forever, is TO ELIMINATE the kinds of people who do not care enough about themselves and others to stop unhealthy lifestyles or at least make a very intense effort to stop.
(BTW) this is one of the reasons why God allows suffering to continue in this world he is trying to give everyone a chance to repent,
HE IS GIVING US PLENTY OF TIME!

Just like an alcoholic it is a unhealthy lifestyle and even DOCTORS have agreed that one of the most unhealthy sexual lifestyles in this world is homosexuality,,
So we can see that God cares greatly about homosexuals, that they stop living such a dangerous life style, clean themselves up and follow him, IF THEY DO THEY WILL BE MET WITH OPEN ARMS, LOVING SYMPATHETIC OPEN ARMS.

originally posted by: Silenthill666007

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are

and so on and so on...

My mom told me Jesus was teaching us lessons. She said some people take the Bible too literally as every word is written by God. I believe Jesus to be an extremely intelligent teacher, but I don't look to the Bible as a history lesson.

My own personal philosophies about Satan and the "serpent"..... It used to be a male dominated society back then women didn't have rights and even today men are responsible for 95% of violent crime. Angel spelled backwards is " legna" . Men have an extra leg that looks like a serpent. It's been translated through four languages , so that might be a coincidence. I seen artistic impression by one of my favorite artists who doesn't have faith but tells religious stories. In his stories all men go to hell and all women go to heaven. People are sexually imbalanced cause of their hormones and genetic makeup. But if you think of all the men and women you know, women are generally kinder and better people.

I also got a gay cousin. I read that if a man lies with another man he should be stoned to death. Back then men were built like Troy and it might have been considered very cruel for a man to have sex with another man or male child. It might have been a painful traumatic event and maybe not love like considered today. I need to study the history of the world but I try to consider a lot of things. Maybe try to see what he meant?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[[A PROMISED PARADISE EARTH]]

[Isaiah 11 verse 6-9]

 6. The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them.

 7. The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull.

8. The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.

9. They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Psalms 37 vrs.10-13,27-29]

10. Just a little while longer, and the WICKED WILL BE NO MORE;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.

11. But the MEEK WILL POSSESS THE EARTH, And they will find exquisite delight in the ABUNDANCE OF PEACE.

12. The wicked man plots against the righteous; He grinds his teeth at him.

13. But Jehovah will laugh at him,
For He knows that his day will come.

27. TURN AWAY FROM BAD and do what is GOOD,
And YOU will REMAIN FOREVER.

28. For Jehovah loves justice,
And he will not abandon his loyal ones.
They will always be guarded;
BUT THE DESCENDANTS OF THE WICKED WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH.

29. THE RIGHTEOUS WILL POSSESS THE EARTH,
And THEY WILL LIVE FOREVER ON IT.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Revelation 21 vrs. 3,4]

3. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.

4. And he will WIPE OUT every TEARS from their eyes, and DEATH WILL BE NO MORE, neither will mourning nor outcry NOR PAIN BE ANYMORE. The former things have PASSED away.

originally posted by: Silenthill666007

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are

and so on and so on...

My mom told me Jesus was teaching us lessons. She said some people take the Bible too literally as every word is written by God. I believe Jesus to be an extremely intelligent teacher, but I don't look to the Bible as a history lesson.

My own personal philosophies about Satan and the "serpent"..... It used to be a male dominated society back then women didn't have rights and even today men are responsible for 95% of violent crime. Angel spelled backwards is " legna" . Men have an extra leg that looks like a serpent. It's been translated through four languages , so that might be a coincidence. I seen artistic impression by one of my favorite artists who doesn't have faith but tells religious stories. In his stories all men go to hell and all women go to heaven. People are sexually imbalanced cause of their hormones and genetic makeup. But if you think of all the men and women you know, women are generally kinder and better people.

I also got a gay cousin. I read that if a man lies with another man he should be stoned to death. Back then men were built like Troy and it might have been considered very cruel for a man to have sex with another man or male child. It might have been a painful traumatic event and maybe not love like considered today. I need to study the history of the world but I try to consider a lot of things. Maybe try to see what he meant?

ONE OF THE OTHER REASONS WHY I FEEL I AM NOT ON THE WRONG SIDE.

Paradise means “garden” or “park.” Does it remind you of something we have already heard of before?

It sounds much like the beautiful garden that Jehovah God made for Adam and Eve, doesn’t it?
But will the whole earth ever be a paradise?

Jehovah told his prophet Isaiah to write about the coming new paradise for God’s people. He said: ‘Wolves and sheep will live together in peace. Young calves and baby lions will feed together, and little children will take care of them. Even a baby will not be harmed if it plays near a poisonous snake.’

‘This can never happen,’ many will say. ‘There has always been trouble on earth, and there always will be.’ But think about it:
What kind of home did God give Adam and Eve?

God put Adam and Eve in a paradise. It is only because they disobeyed God that they lost their beautiful home, grew old and died. God promises that he will give people who love him the very things that Adam and Eve lost.

In the coming new paradise nothing will hurt or destroy. There will be perfect peace. All people will be healthy and happy. It will be just as God wanted it to be at the beginning.

But we can learn how God will bring this "PARADISE EARTH" about, in the BIBLE.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

I'm still not seeing what it is that convinced you? IF you were an Atheist for seven years how could the depiction of God in the Bible reconvert you? Explain, I'm genuinely interested as to hearing why you went back to being indoctrinated...

Well,,, FIRST of all I have to say,,

WOW, ,, WOW , WHOA!

WHEN YOU ASK ME LAST NIGHT TO,,
(come over to YOUR side) and then come back to YOU and discuss what I FOUND OUT,,

THAT brought back some terrible memories BECAUSE I HAD ALREADY DONE SO,
I mean some horrific memories,
Too terrifying to comment on,
Too ashamed to discuss,
In fact you,, "with no fault of your own", provoked and brought back memories that I have been trying to suppress and I will admit that God is helping me suppress the terrifying experiences to a manageable level.

> I almost committed suicide,

> I frequently had nervous breakdowns,

> Feeling trapped, Not knowing the way out,

> feeling like I was in a cage, a slave,
a slave in a bad way.

So with my experience, it was not what I thought it was going to be. I often cried out and said to myself," THIS IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR,
Yelling at the top of my lungs, WAIT A MINUTE HOW DO I GET OUT OF HERE !!!.

So instead of realizing that Jehovah, Christ Jesus, or the Bible itself, was some kind of a deception, I experience, heavily that the OTHER SIDE WAS A DECEPTION,

At least it prove to me it was, I can't speak for anyone else, except for a few.

(Don't worry I'll be okay its not your fault)

When I think about it I feel like a fool because, it's like a child who first discovered FIRE the FIRE is beautiful, the fire is glowing beautifully,

If I am cold it makes me feel warm and good so like a child I want to touch the fire, I want to make FIRE, I want to play with FIRE,

But I do not realize or I did not believe others WARNING ME, that the FIRE is going to hurt, is going to burn me,

But in my particular case, LIKE A FOOL,
I just had to see it for myself and believe me I still smell like smoke even though I no longer smoke cigarettes,

LOL,

What I mean by that is I still have to deal with the consequences of when I was on the other side. That's why I still smell like smoke in a matter of speaking.

So what I decided to do is ask myself,

Did I really try to understand Jehovah, Jesus or the Bible?

Should I give it another chance?
But instead, this time pray sincerely, investigate sincerely, make a serious devotion to understanding, what I thought was a deception?

I found out that the deception was actually the fault of GREEDY, POWER HUNGRY, HOTTIE, UPPITY, DESPERATE TO PROVE THERE RIGHT, SELF RIGHTEOUS, CORRUPT, HYPOCRITE, IMPERFECT HUMANS,,
That are LYING when they SAY THEY REPRESENT JEHOVAH, JESUS OR THE BIBLE,

" IT WAS THEM ALL ALONG !!!",
I said to myself, ANGRILY,
That was causing me to believe there was a deception, it was not the fault of God and his word the Bible.

So I ask myself,,,,

Is God to Blame for Human Suffering?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!”

[Read Job 34:10]

“When under trial, let no one say: ‘I am being tried by God.’ For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.”

[Read James 1:13]

“Throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.”

[Read 1 Peter 5:7]

“Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”

[Read 2 Peter 3:9]

And that's only a teeny tiny bit of me answering that question for myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So now I have a better life, THEN when I was on the Bible side BEFORE, life is even better than my previous experience with the whole God and the Bible thing,

But more importantly it doesn't even compare or its not even in the same league AS WHEN I WAS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE,
of God and the Bible.

BTW,

BRO, in response to you saying that I went back to being indoctrinated, THAT'S pretty funny, LOL,

Because one of the reasons why I have had many PAINS in my life is because I allow no one to indoctrinate me, I am too STUBBORN,
I am too REBELLIOUS, I'D rather DIE a free man,
then then LIVE ON MY KNEES,
I am also HARD HEADED you can warn me about things but unfortunately I tend to want to experience them for myself, first even though it could cost me my life.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

It sounds much like the beautiful garden that Jehovah God made for Adam and Eve, doesn’t it? But will the whole earth ever be a paradise?

Yes as Akragon stated earlier it sounds all nice and dandy according to the book and how you perceive it within your own imagination. Which is what any fictional book relies heavily on, is how far your imagination will make you believe.

Adam and Eve were preprogrammed/indoctrinated (the same way you have) to essentially believe that everything God said or did was for their benefit and was always truthful. They may not have had to work hard but their purpose was to watch over the living animals in the garden in return for being created and the gift of immortality. Which he can take away from them at any moment if he so chooses,(in the end he does just that)this is involuntary indentured servitude my friend AKA slavery. It seems in this relationship God is the one who benefits from this contract not his creations. The angels are also enslaved to God's command. Their not compensated in anyway and those that disobey him are also punished with out remorse.

Again explain to me why Satan is the 'bad' guy..

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

look man, like I said before... its lovely that you have your faith in the book... Believe whatever you will

But the fact remains, the book has errors, contradictions and alterations... I realise you don't believe that, but that is the Christian mentality... you people believe your book is perfect...

Unfortunately that is just not reality... And regardless of what you post or whatever explanation you give, it doesn't change anything... I Don't believe the god of the OT is God at all...

You speak of knowing Gods personality... Yet you see no difference between the Father Jesus spoke of and the entity within the OT... which is nothing more then turning a blind eye to obvious issues

but again, feel free to do so... I would never expect a Christian to say anything that remotely resembles a bad word against your book...

Try to remember one thing though... God is NOT confined to your book



And by the way, please stop saying "its a complicated book, or im not reading it right"... Just because I don't agree with your personal assessment does not make me stupid

Thanks

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

It sounds much like the beautiful garden that Jehovah God made for Adam and Eve, doesn’t it? But will the whole earth ever be a paradise?

Yes as Akragon stated earlier it sounds all nice and dandy according to the book and how you perceive it within your own imagination. Which is what any fictional book relies heavily on, is how far your imagination will make you believe.

Adam and Eve were preprogrammed/indoctrinated (the same way you have) to essentially believe that everything God said or did was for their benefit and was always truthful. They may not have had to work hard but their purpose was to watch over the living animals in the garden in return for being created and the gift of immortality. Which he can take away from them at any moment if he so chooses,(in the end he does just that)this is involuntary indentured servitude my friend AKA slavery. It seems in this relationship God is the one who benefits from this contract not his creations. The angels are also enslaved to God's command. Their not compensated in anyway and those that disobey him are also punished with out remorse.

Again explain to me why Satan is the 'bad' guy..

Some of my answers to your statement are in response to;

[[[silenthill666007]]

And some goes back to my research regarding the credibility of the Bible.

You have to refer to my earlier POST and it is THAT CREDIBILITY that makes me believe God's INTENTIONS ARE PURE.

FOR example; the way I see it is we have a choice to, NOT EXIST and we have a choice TO EXIST,
THE whole thing, life and God being our PARENT simply our PARENT, was for the purpose of living perfect happy lives and not even understanding the concept of a slave.

Adam and Eve didn't find out what it meant to be a slave until after they disobeyed God, There was a question posed by SATAN or you could say a question brought up in the UNIVERSE, and it was this,,
CAN Adam and Eve, do better if they just go ahead and disobey you (God)
But in order to live in this so called freedom from God, then God would have to take away at least some of his protective power , from Adam and Eve to be able to really answer that question.

At least he did not just destroy everyone who disagree with him right away he gave them a chance to prove it.

So the ending result in testing God and rejecting God was they NOW ARE A SLAVE OF THEIR OWN SIN.

After putting REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE coupled with what it says in the Bible and it's EYE WITNESS TESTIMONIES from other humans, from Human that we're on God's side and Human that were on Satan side,

ALSO putting together with what I HAVE EXPERIENCED being on Satan side, COUPLED with others WHO WERE IN A LIFE EXPERIENCE on GOD'S SIDE,

THIS IS WHAT I CAME UP WITH,,,,

GOD DOES NOT NEED ANYONE, BUT HIMSELF, HE DOES NOT NEED HUMAN NOR ANGELS NOR ANY PHYSICAL OR SPIRITUAL ENTITIES AT ALL!

You are trying to understand this from a Human point of view.

A Human that scientists say only use one tenth of 1% of their brain.

GOD ONLY DECIDED TO CREATE something other than himself for the sole purpose that HE LOVES LIFE so much that he wants others to experience life, with free will, not love there CREATOR because they are programmed to, like a robot, but by choice, meaning they have figured out their Creator and they love him because of who he is,

Because God made us in His image we are in a sense, "HIM" we are almost a clone of HIM so it makes sense that the only way to enjoy life and be happy, is to view life as he does, what he would do we must do, because he created us,
HE KNOWS the only way to be happy is to think and act like HIM only on a smaller scale.

Try to understand this way , YOU have many children, (let's say) ,
And your neighbors, because of their lifestyles,, they prove to be very dangerous to the health and the life of your children,
Now you can try to preach to your neighbors to say hey look can you either go away or please do not come near my children with your lifestyles? because I'm afraid that if you continue, my children will die.

Now let's say that your neighbors just laugh at you and do not listen to you and they continue in their activity.

Then you see your children starting to die because of it,

Now let's say you have the power to give your neighbors plenty of chances but after so many chances you have the power to destroy them because it is the only way to protect your children.

Your children are just like you, they agree with you, they want you to protect them, they go to you for advice and just because you give them that advice, are you going to say that your children are indoctrinated? and had no choice at all? but they only follow your rules, BUT YET YOUR RULES ARE KEEPING THEM ALIVE !!

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

look man, like I said before... its lovely that you have your faith in the book... Believe whatever you will

But the fact remains, the book has errors, contradictions and alterations... I realise you don't believe that, but that is the Christian mentality... you people believe your book is perfect...

Unfortunately that is just not reality... And regardless of what you post or whatever explanation you give, it doesn't change anything... I Don't believe the god of the OT is God at all...

You speak of knowing Gods personality... Yet you see no difference between the Father Jesus spoke of and the entity within the OT... which is nothing more then turning a blind eye to obvious issues

but again, feel free to do so... I would never expect a Christian to say anything that remotely resembles a bad word against your book...

Try to remember one thing though... God is NOT confined to your book

And by the way, please stop saying "its a complicated book, or im not reading it right"... Just because I don't agree with your personal assessment does not make me stupid

Thanks

First of all I do believe that the Bible has errors but I believe of imperfection from the copyists now I do believe that the original writings the first time they were penned on whatever version of paper there was at the time I believe that that book is perfect so I am guilty of that.

Second I also believe that God is not confined to one book there are other things other than that book that are obvious in explaining who God is.

In regards to trying to learn about God and his personality with A,, NOT SO PERFECT, VIRGIN, VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL WRITINGS? God will take up the slack of that unfortunate fact about the current copies of the Bible.

But he will only help you with your research only after proving that you sincerely want to know the truth,

but if you just want to know the truth but after finding out the truth you really don't want to change your life in concordance with that truth,
having the attitude that as long as I don't No what is right I don't have to be responsible for my wrongdoing," ignorance is bliss" type of attitude,

Don't expect Jehovah or even his Son Jesus to help you understand that, NOT SO PERFECT COPY OF GOD'S WORD.

YOU will be on your own without any help from him because you have proven to him that you really do not want his help,

BUT DON'T WORRY he will still make sure that it is mathematically safe to have the planets aligned just perfectly right in its place for you so you do not float off into space and can still enjoy at least a partial life in this universe and he will still make it rain for you to grow your food and he will still make sure that the temperature is livable,

EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE NOT ON HIS SIDE

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Dude... I've been studying the bible for a long time

Jehovah/YHWH... is NOT God... that is the truth

So no I am not on HE/she/it's side

Your book says prove all things and hold fast to that which is good... I've had more then sufficient proof that the entity of the OT is NOT God... confirmed by the very words of Jesus himself...

said OT god is NOT good... but again feel free to "hold fast" to him

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

look man, like I said before... its lovely that you have your faith in the book... Believe whatever you will

But the fact remains, the book has errors, contradictions and alterations... I realise you don't believe that, but that is the Christian mentality... you people believe your book is perfect...

Unfortunately that is just not reality... And regardless of what you post or whatever explanation you give, it doesn't change anything... I Don't believe the god of the OT is God at all...

You speak of knowing Gods personality... Yet you see no difference between the Father Jesus spoke of and the entity within the OT... which is nothing more then turning a blind eye to obvious issues

but again, feel free to do so... I would never expect a Christian to say anything that remotely resembles a bad word against your book...

Try to remember one thing though... God is NOT confined to your book

And by the way, please stop saying "its a complicated book, or im not reading it right"... Just because I don't agree with your personal assessment does not make me stupid

Thanks

I apologize if what I have said to anyone on this thread makes you think that I think you are stupid, that was simply unintentional I believe that this world we live in, has unfair advantages so just because someone doesn't understand the Bible does not make them stupid.

All I know is that I had to work hard most of my life on my own to try to figure out and understand the Bible,
What makes a smart person is realizing, that the whole system that we live in makes us disadvantaged and we need to realize that it takes great efforts to understand life and how we got here and what we are supposed to do and what is our future?

Once I showed that much interest in God he then started to make what he is, who he is, and what he wants me to do through His Word in the Bible with more clarity.