Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

This is a serious question that has kind of puzzled me for years, even as a former christian I never understood it. Why blame Lucifer/Satan for the woes of this world? What did he do to mankind to deserve the kind of hate he gets? Why in the scriptures do we never see Lucifer's downfall from his perspective or at least the writers taking a more objective stance? (I know many Christians may not view Satan as an entity but more the temptation of an individual to commit morally reprehensible acts.)

If I were to examine the mythology objectively towards both characters,God's done some pretty #ed up #;

-Created Adam and Eve essentially as ignorant slave worshipers to take care of the animals he just made because he's too lazy to look after them

-Flooded the earth and saves a drunk

- Killed kids using a bear because they made fun of some bald guy

- Destroyed entire cities for petty reasons

- Makes a Pharaoh angry intentionally so he can kill more kids

- sends his followers on crusades to conquer neighboring tribes over a covenant they made with him

- allows his followers to practice polygamy but absolutely abhors same sex relations

- permits slavery but hates it when you shave and the list goes on.

Satan on the other hand;

- Rebelled against God

- Gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong

-ordered(by God!) to kill a total of ten people

-tempted his Jewish son Jesus to test his faith.

-His blamed for all the sins committed

Clearly there's some disparity here, am I wrong?

Then suddenly Humanity's supposed to just bow down to God because he sends down his Jewish zombie son, he then gets his son to "die" for us because many of us realized how ridiculous religion is. To top it all off, if we choose not to recognize his seemingly absent authority were punished for it. How loving and merciful of a father to do that to his own kids. Also what's up with the Holy ghost not getting much love?

I'm not here to debate the existent of either of the entities mentioned nor am I hear to corrupt you from your faith. Somebody seriously explain to me why God is the good-guy in this dichotomy? I'm sure this question's been asked in previous threads, if so ignore this.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

That's an easy one actually...

The OT entity isn't God...

And most of what you said is based around Paulian texts

This is a troll, not a drop of what you have written is researched or comes out as logical.

Sadly you and your assumptions are a product of pop culture.


Persuade you, you can't be persuaded, you are calling Jesus a zombie, seriously you just wanted to rant.
You don't want discussion, you just want to inflame opinion.

a reply to: Akragon

How is the OT not God? He has on many occasions introduced him self us such...

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Simply put...

The entity in the OT shows no signs of being a "loving merciful creator" which Jesus spoke about

Jesus vs. The Imposter

a reply to: Raggedyman

If the OP is so illogical, than tear it to shreds... Why post this drivel?

a reply to: Akragon

The argument you make in the thread linked is entirely based on the 'no true Scotsmen' fallacy...
Apparently only you know who the One true God is...

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Actually, Only the son Knows the Father according to the bible...

And there are many people who can also see he issues with the OT... including early forms of Christianity

One of the reasons the gnostic writers were eliminated

so I would say you're incorrect

originally posted by: Raggedyman
This is a troll, not a drop of what you have written is researched or comes out as logical.

Sadly you and your assumptions are a product of pop culture.


Persuade you, you can't be persuaded, you are calling Jesus a zombie, seriously you just wanted to rant.
You don't want discussion, you just want to inflame opinion.

So no answer? Care to say where his lists of crimes for each is wrong? You can confirm them all with just the bible.

If you read the bible as an outsider and determined (objectively) who the protagonists and villains are, Satan certainly wouldn't be the villain and YHWH wouldn't be the protagonist. This is why the priest class was so important while Christianity was putting down its foundation and why it was illegal for commoners to read it on their own. They needed a couple of centuries of conditioning people to read it with a certain bias.

If I am living the life I live in Christ today, it will not hurt me after I die and there is nothing there.

but certainly

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

a reply to: Akragon

Jesus may be God's kid but the same logical fallacy applies to him as well.

Even if we were to both willfully ignore the OT, God is still not the 'good-guy'. Punishing your kids for eternity because they refuse to acknowledge your invisible authority? How in the world is that merciful? or loving for that matter? To me that seems incredibly sadistic behavior coming from an all powerful entity, don't you think?

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

So your issue is about the doctrine of "hell"?

The word Jesus actually used what Gehenna not "Hell"... which was an actual place in this world, just outside the walls of Jerusalem...

The teaching was supposed to be metaphorical not literal

You'll notice that God seems to have had an attitude adjustment when Jesus came along... IF you've read the book that is

a reply to: Akragon

The adjustment is pretty negligible regarding the fact that he's still wants/or has to punish you for misguided reasons...
My problem is the whole Doctrine of heaven and hell and it's basically this; you live your entire life devoted to a deity and his kid, your ridiculed by unbelievers most of your life and then when you finally perish from this life you end up spending eternity kissing God's ass. It's indentured servitude to a deity who wants to live in an echo chamber.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

The adjustment is pretty negligible regarding the fact that he's still wants/or has to punish you for misguided reasons

See that's how religion works though... its designed to make you believe there is an entity watching and waiting for you to screw up so "HE" can spike a lightning bolt at your ass... that's just not reality though.

Karma comes around... always does, so your mistakes in this life will come back to you... One will repeat their mistakes if they don't learn from them.

My problem is the whole Doctrine of heaven and hell and it's basically this; you live your entire life devoted to a deity and his kid, your ridiculed by unbelievers most of your life and then when you finally perish from this life you end up spending eternity kissing God's ass.

that would be the kinda hellish wouldn't it... though again, we don't know whats in store for us after this life... And im sure it isn't going to be sitting around Gods feet singing kumbaya and eating smores...

This is just more of the things that the church wants you to believe... it will be a big church session in heaven or a life of burning in a lake of fire... Its all nonsense

What the actual afterlife will be is and always will be unknown... such information is hidden from us even though we have all been there

a reply to: Akragon

Is there a punishment for not believing in god?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NateTheAnimator

That's an easy one actually...

The OT entity isn't God...

And most of what you said is based around Paulian texts

Psalms (83);18

18. May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Are you saying the bible proves itself?

Basically, because it says that this entity is God... it must be true, because its in the book...

Right?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Akragon

Is there a punishment for not believing in god?

According to myself, or according to the "good book"?

One answer is obvious...

Personally, I don't see why there would be... We will all find out the truth of the matter eventually regardless of belief

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Akragon

How is the OT not God? He has on many occasions introduced him self us such...

So some strange powerful entity introduces itself as the loving creator of reality and we are just supposed to take that at face value.

a reply to: Akragon

According to the book.