Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Seede


Yes genetically the descendants are Adam and Eve's children, technically their also Gods kids as well. I even have the fictional book to back me up; Acts 17:24-29, John 1:12 read it for your self. If were God's children we are his responsibility, If he wants to continue standing by as more people are killed and having their rights violated that's his fault and his fault that he allowed Eve to be tempted to begin with.

I believe there are five reasons that convince me that,,

[THE BIBLE IS NOT FICTION]

Reasons to Trust the Bible
#1. [Historical Soundness]

It would be hard to trust a book that is found to contain inaccuracies. Imagine reading a modern history book that dated the second world war to the 1800’s or that called the president of the United States a king. Would such inaccuracies not raise questions in your mind about the overall reliability of the book?

NO ONE has ever successfully challenged the historical accuracy of the Bible. It refers to real people and real events.

People,,
Bible critics questioned the existence of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Judea who handed Jesus over to be impaled. (Matthew 27:1-26) Evidence that Pilate was once ruler of Judea is etched on a stone discovered at the Mediterranean seaport city of Caesarea in 1961.

Before 1993, there was no proof outside the Bible to support the historicity of David, the brave young shepherd who later became king of Israel. That year, however, archaeologists uncovered in northern Israel a basalt stone, dated to the ninth century B.C.E., that experts say bears the words “House of David” and “king of Israel.”

Events,,
Until recently, many scholars doubted the accuracy of the Bible’s account of the nation of Edom battling with Israel in the time of David. (2 Samuel 8:13, 14) Edom, they argued, was a simple pastoral society at the time and did not become sufficiently organized or have the might to threaten Israel until much later. However, recent excavations indicate that “Edom was a complex society centuries earlier [than previously thought], as reflected in the Bible,” states an article in the journal Biblical Archaeology Review.

The use of Proper titles,,,,
There were many rulers on the world stage during the 16 centuries that the Bible was being written. When the Bible refers to a ruler, it always uses the proper title. For example, it correctly refers to Herod Antipas as “district ruler” and Gallio as “proconsul.” (Luke 3:1; Acts 18:12) Ezra 5:6 refers to Tattenai, the governor of the Persian province “beyond the River,” the Euphrates River. A coin produced in the fourth century B.C.E. contains a similar description, identifying the Persian governor Mazaeus as ruler of the province “Beyond the River.”

Accuracy in seemingly minor details is no small matter. If we can trust the Bible writers in even small details, should that not bolster our confidence in the other things they wrote?

Reasons to Trust the Bible
#2. [Candor and Honesty]

Honesty provides the foundation for trust. A man who has a reputation for honesty may win your trust, but if he lies to you even once, he may lose it.

THE Bible writers were honest men who wrote with openness of heart. Their candor gives their writing the clear ring of truth.

Mistakes and shortcomings.
The Bible writers openly admitted their own failures and weaknesses. Moses told of a mistake he made that cost him dearly. (Numbers 20:7-13) Asaph explained that for a time he found himself envying the prosperous life of the wicked. (Psalm 73:1-14) Jonah told of his disobedience and the bad attitude he initially had when God showed mercy to repentant sinners. (Jonah 1:1-3; 3:10; 4:1-3) Matthew freely related that he had abandoned Jesus on the night of Jesus’ arrest.
[Matthew 26:56].

Bible writers, such as Jonah, recorded their own mistakes
The writers of the Hebrew Scriptures laid bare the repeated grumbling and rebellion of their own people. (2 Chronicles 36:15, 16) The writers spared no one, not even the rulers of their nation. (Ezekiel 34:1-10) With similar candor, the letters of the apostles reported the serious problems experienced by individual Christians, including responsible ones, as well as by some congregations in the first century C.E.—1 Corinthians 1:10-13; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; 4:10.

THE Unflattering truth is,,
The Bible writers did not try to gloss over what some might have viewed as embarrassing truth. The (first century) Christians, frankly acknowledged that they were not admired by the world around them but were looked upon as foolish and ignoble.
(1 Corinthians 1:26-29) The writers noted that Jesus’ apostles were seen as “unlettered and ordinary.”—Acts 4:13.

The Gospel writers did not color the facts in order to cast Jesus in a more favorable light. Rather, they reported honestly that he was born under humble circumstances into a working-class family, that he did not study at the prestigious schools of his day, and that the majority of his listeners rejected his message.—Matthew 27:25; Luke 2:4-7; John 7:15.

Clearly, the Bible gives ample evidence that it is the product of honest writers. Does their honesty win your trust?

Also reasons why I do not believe we are on the wrong side.

Reasons to Trust the Bible
#3. [Internal Harmony]

Imagine asking 40 men from varied backgrounds to write a book, each writing a section. The writers live in a number of lands and do not all know one another. Some do not know what the others have written. Would you expect a book thus produced to be harmonious?

THE BIBLE IS SUCH A BOOK.
Written under even more unusual conditions than those described above, its internal harmony is nothing less than profound.

Was Jesus’ garment purple or scarlet?
Unique circumstances.
The Bible was written over a span of some 1,600 years, from 1513 B.C.E. to about 98 C.E. Many of the approximately 40 writers thus lived centuries apart. Their occupations were varied. Some were fishermen, others were shepherds or kings, and one was a physician.

A harmonious message.
The Bible penmen developed one central theme: the vindication of God’s right to rule mankind and the fulfillment of his purpose by means of his heavenly Kingdom, a world government. That theme is introduced in Genesis, expanded on in the books that follow, and brought to a climax in Revelation.—See “What Is the Bible About?” on page 19.

Agreement on details.
The Bible writers agreed on even minute details, but often this harmony was clearly unintentional.
Note an example. The Bible writer John tells us that when a large crowd came to hear Jesus, Jesus specifically asked Philip where to buy some loaves to feed the people. (John 6:1-5) In a parallel account, Luke says that this took place near the city of Bethsaida. Earlier in his book, John happened to have said that Philip was from Bethsaida. (Luke 9:10; John 1:44) So Jesus naturally addressed his question to one of the men who had lived nearby. The details agree,,,
but with an obvious lack of intent to make them harmonious.

Reasonable differences.
There are some differences between certain accounts, but should we not expect this? Suppose a group of people witnessed a crime. If each one mentioned the same details using the same words, would you not suspect collusion? Reasonably, the testimony of each would vary somewhat according to his particular angle of view. So it was with the Bible writers.

Consider an example. Did Jesus wear a purple garment on the day of his death, as Mark and John report? (Mark 15:17; John 19:2) Or was it scarlet, as Matthew says? (Matthew 27:28) Really, both can be correct. Purple has components of red in it. Depending on the observer’s angle of view, light reflection and background could have subdued certain hues, giving different casts to the garment.

The harmony of the Bible writers, including their unintentional consistency, further stamps their writings as trustworthy.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Seede

Yes genetically the descendants are Adam and Eve's children, technically their also Gods kids as well. I even have the fictional book to back me up; Acts 17:24-29, John 1:12 read it for your self. If were God's children we are his responsibility, If he wants to continue standing by as more people are killed and having their rights violated that's his fault and his fault that he allowed Eve to be tempted to begin with.

More reasons why I do not believe we are on the wrong side,
NOR DO I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS A FICTIONAL BOOK.

REASONS TO TRUST THE BIBLE
# 4. (Scientific Accuracy)

Science has made great strides in modern times. As a result, old theories have given way to new ones. What was once accepted as fact may now be seen as myth. Science textbooks often need revision.

THE Bible is not a science textbook. Yet, when it comes to scientific matters, the Bible is noteworthy not only for what it says but also for what it does not say.

Free of unscientific views.
Many mistaken beliefs gained wide acceptance in ancient times. Views about the earth ranged from the idea that it was flat to the notion that tangible substances or objects held it aloft. Long before science learned about the spread and prevention of disease, physicians employed some practices that were ineffective at best, lethal at worst. But not once in its more than 1,100 chapters does the Bible endorse any unscientific views or harmful practices.

Far ahead of its time, the Bible correctly stated that the earth is circular and hangs “upon nothing”
Scientifically sound statements.
Some 3,500 years ago, the Bible stated that the earth is hanging “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) In the eighth century B.C.E., Isaiah clearly referred to “the circle [or, sphere] of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) A spherical earth held in empty space without any visible or physical means of support—does not that description sound remarkably modern?

Written about 1500 B.C.E., the Mosaic Law (found in the first five books of the Bible) contained sound laws regarding quarantining of the sick, treatment of dead bodies, and disposal of waste.—Leviticus 13:1-5; Numbers 19:1-13; Deuteronomy 23:13, 14.

Partly as a result of turning powerful telescopes toward the heavens, scientists have concluded that the universe had a sudden “birth.” Not all scientists like the implications of this explanation. One professor noted: “A universe that began seems to demand a first cause; for who could imagine such an effect without a sufficient cause?” Yet, long before telescopes, the very first verse of the Bible plainly stated: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”—Genesis 1:1.

Even though it is an ancient book and touches on many subjects, the Bible contains no scientific inaccuracies. Does not such a book merit, at the very least, our consideration?

Reasons to Trust the Bible
#5. (Fulfilled Prophecy)

Imagine a weather forecaster who has a long record of being right,,,every time. If he predicted rain, would you carry an umbrella?

THE Bible is filled with predictions, or prophecies. Its record, as documented by history, is clear. Bible prophecy is always right.

Distinguishing features.
Bible prophecies are often specific and have been fulfilled down to the smallest of details. They usually involve matters of great importance and predict the opposite of what those living at the time of the writing might have been expecting.

An outstanding example.
Strategically built astride the Euphrates River, ancient Babylon has been called “the political, religious, and cultural centre of the ancient Orient.” About 732 B.C.E., the prophet Isaiah penned an ominous prophecy—Babylon would fall. Isaiah provided specifics: A leader named “Cyrus” would be the conqueror, the protective waters of the Euphrates would “dry up,” and the city’s gates would “not be shut.” (Isaiah 44:27–45:3) Some 200 years later, on October 5, 539 B.C.E., the prophecy was fulfilled in all its details. Greek historian Herodotus (fifth century B.C.E.) confirmed the manner of Babylon’s fall.

The Bible accurately foretold that a leader named Cyrus would conquer mighty Babylon
A bold detail.
Isaiah made a further startling prediction regarding Babylon: “She will never be inhabited.” (Isaiah 13:19, 20) To predict permanent desolation for a sprawling city occupying a strategic location was bold indeed. You would normally expect that such a city would be rebuilt if ruined. Although Babylon lingered on for a while after its conquest, Isaiah’s words eventually came true. Today the site of ancient Babylon “is flat, hot, deserted and dusty,” reports Smithsonian magazine.

It is awesome to contemplate the magnitude of Isaiah’s prophecy. What he foretold would be the equivalent of predicting the exact manner in which a modern city, such as New York or London, would be destroyed 200 years from now and then emphatically stating that it would never again be inhabited. Of course, most remarkable is the fact that Isaiah’s prophecy came true!

In this series of articles, we have considered some of the evidence that has convinced millions of people that the Bible is trustworthy. They therefore look to it as a reliable guide to direct their steps. Why not learn more about the Bible so that you can decide for yourself whether you too can trust it?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
This is a serious question that has kind of puzzled me for years, even as a former christian I never understood it. Why blame Lucifer/Satan for the woes of this world? What did he do to mankind to deserve the kind of hate he gets? Why in the scriptures do we never see Lucifer's downfall from his perspective or at least the writers taking a more objective stance? (I know many Christians may not view Satan as an entity but more the temptation of an individual to commit morally reprehensible acts.)

If I were to examine the mythology objectively towards both characters,God's done some pretty #ed up #;

-Created Adam and Eve essentially as ignorant slave worshipers to take care of the animals he just made because he's too lazy to look after them

-Flooded the earth and saves a drunk

- Killed kids using a bear because they made fun of some bald guy

- Destroyed entire cities for petty reasons

- Makes a Pharaoh angry intentionally so he can kill more kids

- sends his followers on crusades to conquer neighboring tribes over a covenant they made with him

- allows his followers to practice polygamy but absolutely abhors same sex relations

- permits slavery but hates it when you shave and the list goes on.

Satan on the other hand;

- Rebelled against God

- Gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong

-ordered(by God!) to kill a total of ten people

-tempted his Jewish son Jesus to test his faith.

-His blamed for all the sins committed

Clearly there's some disparity here, am I wrong?

Then suddenly Humanity's supposed to just bow down to God because he sends down his Jewish zombie son, he then gets his son to "die" for us because many of us realized how ridiculous religion is. To top it all off, if we choose not to recognize his seemingly absent authority were punished for it. How loving and merciful of a father to do that to his own kids. Also what's up with the Holy ghost not getting much love?

I'm not here to debate the existent of either of the entities mentioned nor am I hear to corrupt you from your faith. Somebody seriously explain to me why God is the good-guy in this dichotomy? I'm sure this question's been asked in previous threads, if so ignore this.

The world is full of books that is not the BIBLE,
And they agree and sometimes love and defend Lucifer, the way, or some of the way you have defended him,
many books defending Satan the reason why you do not here man defends Satan in the Bible or even have a on the fence view of Satan in the Bible is because the Bible was written spired of God,,
and men were only secretaries to write down the thoughts of God so its only obvious that if God knows his Son who USED TO BE A GLORIOUS ANGEL,, who chose to Rebell,
then God is certainly not going to want you to go down the same path His other Son did
because just look at this world we see nothing but the same attitude Satan has causing death and destruction so why would the Bible even have a on the fence view of Satan or Lucifer, or even defend THAT SELF MADE GOD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Job. 1 vrs. 6-12]

Now the day came when the sons of the true Godaf entered to take their station before Jehovah,g and Satanh also entered among them.
7. Then Jehovah said to Satan:
“Where have you come from?”

Satan answered Jehovah:
“From roving about on the earth and from walking about in it.”

8. And Jehovah said to Satan:
“Have you taken note of my servant Job?

There is no one like him on the earth.
He is an upright man of integrity, fearing God and shunning what is bad.”

9 At that Satan answered Jehovah:
“Is it for nothing that Job has feared God?

10. Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has?
You have blessed the work of his hands,
and his livestock has spread out in the land.

11. But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has,
and he will surely curse you to your very face.”

12.Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Look!

Everything that he has is in your hand.
Only do not lay your hand on the man himself!”

So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
This is a serious question that has kind of puzzled me for years, even as a former christian I never understood it. Why blame Lucifer/Satan for the woes of this world? What did he do to mankind to deserve the kind of hate he gets? Why in the scriptures do we never see Lucifer's downfall from his perspective or at least the writers taking a more objective stance? (I know many Christians may not view Satan as an entity but more the temptation of an individual to commit morally reprehensible acts.)

If I were to examine the mythology objectively towards both characters,God's done some pretty #ed up #;

-Created Adam and Eve essentially as ignorant slave worshipers to take care of the animals he just made because he's too lazy to look after them

-Flooded the earth and saves a drunk

- Killed kids using a bear because they made fun of some bald guy

- Destroyed entire cities for petty reasons

- Makes a Pharaoh angry intentionally so he can kill more kids

- sends his followers on crusades to conquer neighboring tribes over a covenant they made with him

- allows his followers to practice polygamy but absolutely abhors same sex relations

- permits slavery but hates it when you shave and the list goes on.

Satan on the other hand;

- Rebelled against God

- Gave humanity the ability to know right from wrong

-ordered(by God!) to kill a total of ten people

-tempted his Jewish son Jesus to test his faith.

-His blamed for all the sins committed

Clearly there's some disparity here, am I wrong?

Then suddenly Humanity's supposed to just bow down to God because he sends down his Jewish zombie son, he then gets his son to "die" for us because many of us realized how ridiculous religion is. To top it all off, if we choose not to recognize his seemingly absent authority were punished for it. How loving and merciful of a father to do that to his own kids. Also what's up with the Holy ghost not getting much love?

I'm not here to debate the existent of either of the entities mentioned nor am I hear to corrupt you from your faith. Somebody seriously explain to me why God is the good-guy in this dichotomy? I'm sure this question's been asked in previous threads, if so ignore this.

DO more research on what Adam and Eve, actually had,

They had perfect bodies, perfect peace absolutely no pain.

Superior strength, cultivating the land was a breeze and so easy.

They could eat from hundreds of thousands of vegetations and fruit trees THEY ONLY HAD TO REJECT ONE!!

One measly tree out of all those trees.

They totally leaned toward righteous acts, they would have to go against the grain in order to think of something bad.
They had this wonderful relationship and actual conversations with the almighty of the universe, what do you mean slaves?
how were they slaves to God?
When God speaks of the terms slave the definition is greatly different then the human version of what a slave is.

They were working for their own food,
work actually felt good.
I used to be a bodybuilder and many times when I had no pain, working out felt good, even though people looking at me thought I was in pain.
haven't you ever had that feeling when you did some good exercise and it actually made you feel better?
Also doctors have said that exercise gets rid of toxins makes you more healthy so what do you mean by slaves?

Compare their world to ours, our world is full of death and destruction coming from all scenarios, whether it be from confused vicious animals, confused vicious Humans Or Humans disrespecting nature, excetra, excetra,
But when you do the research on what Adam and Eve actually had, it shows that it has no comparison to being a slave,
Many people wait for the day when there's no more sickness or death and their bodies are perfectly working machines
That enjoy their work and inventing things using 100% of their brain.

Eventually going to the star building things being mini creators like their heavenly Father.
How is that being a slave?
I don't understand your description of the way Adam and Eve had it,
Now being a slave to sin that's another story, after they rejected this bliss atmosphere of freedom in loving companionship with the most powerful being in the universe when they rejected him then they became a true slave they got kicked out of the garden because they did not want to be Jehovah's friend anymore they wanted to do what they want, when they wanted, they thought they could do better than the CREATOR of the MANUAL TO LIFE.
After they did not want God's help anymore,

THEN WORKING FOR THEIR FOOD BECAME HARD

Growing old became hard because their cells did not regenerate from the wonderful food that Jehovah God fed them with, in the garden of Eden in which God head first placed the couple in the beginning.

They also live to be almost a thousand years old.

And I know because we were not there and because today we only live 80 years and I know that this is hard for people to believe but when you look at the accuracy and the credibility of the Bible that should be the reason why you believe what it says and if you want me to explain that I have already partially with other posts although there is a lot more say about that.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Simply put...

The entity in the OT shows no signs of being a "loving merciful creator" which Jesus spoke about

Jesus vs. The Imposter

I disagree and here's just a small reason why.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Deuteronomy 30];

19. I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you,
THE blessing and the curse;

and you must choose life so that you may live,

YOU and your descendants,

20. by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

[Isaiah 63 vrs 7-9]

I will mention JEHOVAH'S ACTS OF LOYAL LOVE,
The praiseworthy acts of Jehovah, Because of all that Jehovah has done for us,The MANY GOOD THINGS he has done for the house of Israel, According to his mercy and HIS GREAT LOYAL LOVE.

 8. For he said: “Surely they are my people, sons who will not be disloyal.”
SO HE BECAME THEIR SAVIOR.

 9. During all their DISTRESS IT WAS DISTRESSING TO HIM.

And his own personal messenger saved them. IN HIS LOVE AND COMPASSION he repurchased them, And he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.

[Isaiah 41vrs.10]

10. Do not be afraid,

for I am with you.

Do not be anxious,

for I am your God.

I will fortify you,

yes,

I will help you,

I will really hold on to you with my right hand of righteousness.’

He sounds like a "loving merciful creator" to me that, Jesus talked about.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Are you saying the bible proves itself?

Basically, because it says that this entity is God... it must be true, because its in the book...

Right?

" RIGHT "

[2Peter 1;19-21]

19. So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place (until day dawns and a day star rises) in your hearts.

20. FOR YOU KNOW THIS FIRST, THAT NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE SPRING FROM ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.

21. FOR PROPHECY WAS AT NO TIME BROUGHT BY MAN'S WILL, BUT MEN SPOKE FROM GOD AS THEY WERE MOVED BY HOLY SPIRIT.

[2 Timothy 3;16-17]

16.  All Scripture is inspired of God
and beneficial for teaching,

for reproving, for setting things straight,

for disciplining in righteousness,

17. so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

[[ BTW ]]

I could find a book maybe a hundred years from now that you yourself wrote and you can swear in this book up and down that you did do what you did that you do really exist and that it is you but what reason would I have to believe you I was not around when you wrote this book I never knew you so you could say that about a lot of things but let me give you one SMALL REASON why I believe,,

THE BOOK THE "BIBLE"

THE BIBLE IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE

“He stretches out the northern sky over empty space, suspending the earth upon nothing.”

[Job 26:7]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“All the streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the streams flow, there they return so as to flow again.”

[Ecclesiastes 1:7]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth.”

Isaiah 40:22
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NateTheAnimator

This is Luciferian doctrine.

Every religious person in the world must face a crisis of faith where they learn about a new system of belief and must consider ... "What if?" What if god is not God but Allah? What if the Buddhists have it correct? Maybe they know something over there when they practice Shinto ...

If such questions can shake you, then the faith you had wasn't very genuine.

BROTHER that is so true.
I think you hit the nail on the head on that one.

people do not check or do research on the human psyche.
The Bible talks about one faith, one flock, one Lord, one belief, and if a great book like the Bible who has survived centuries of attacks to annihilate it and is archaeology accurate and secular hystory accurate,
Even to the carbon dating of the paper that the words are written down on.
If that book is saying over and over again that there is one faith and that you will know the truth by their love and that they will have nothing to do with WAR and then they would actually, literally use the NAME OF GOD and it says things over and over again I think IT'S TRYING TO TELL YOU SOMETHING.

SO back to the human psyche,
IF someone is being bombarded with ideas and THEIR FAITH IS SO WEAK then I believe the Bible calls it being tossed around like the waves of the sea because in order to find the truth that is in the Bible you have to have EXTREME HUMILITY "no one comes to the Father except those he chooses to draw out" THROUGH HIS SON Christ Jesus and I think that it sorta alludes to being chosen OUT OF ALL THE LIES and DECEPTION IN THE WORLD.

BECAUSE the only way you're going to find the truth is if you really are GENUINELY HUMBLE you GENUINELY want to know the truth no matter what it cost you and Jesus also told you what it might cost you.

he said that you may even LOSE your biological family and have to trade them for the TRUTH, meaning that your family would not understand because they are not like you you on the other hand YOU ARE GENUINELY HUMBLE willing to sacrifice YOUR WILL for GOD'S WILL ,, like pretty much 24/7


PEOPLE have the WRONG IDEA about FREEDOM,

FOR EXAMPLE let's say I think I want to just walk around and find beautiful women and have sex with them and as many as I can whenever I want whoever I want because I have GAME and I feel that, how could this hurt anybody as long as the women are willing, it feels good, it makes you happy, while you're doing it , what's the harm? Am I not free to choose what I want to do?
isn't this freedom for me to have so many sex partners as I exercise my god-given free will?

So let's say that is your idea of freedom but then you only thought that was freedom.

Now you have a GREAT SICKNESS because you exercised what you thought was true freedom in this case.

BUT now this disease literally puts you in A TYPE of PRISON,

Now you cannot be around anyone much anymore, you cannot show affection or touch anyone anymore because of your disease people now look at you like a plague.

SO WHERE IS YOUR FREEDOM NOW are you willing to admit you were wrong in thinking that it was FREEDOM to have so many sexual partners?

Then let's imagine you learned about another type of FREEDOM one that was TRUE one that you LEARNED from your PARENTS your GOD because the BIBLE says that TRUE FREEDOM COMES FROM OBEYING THE EXPERIENCE and WISDOM OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.
Because he knows the consequences of your actions before you actually experience them.

so on the surface you would say well my parents are really strict or the God of the Bible is really strict but let's just take one example of this so-called restriction to our example here.

So your God tells you before you become sexually active along with the advice of your mother and the advice found in the Bible and here's the so-called restriction or what APPEARS to be NOT FREEDOM........

Here it is,,, it basically says you must not have intercourse with anyone other than your OWN WIFE you must not have intercourse until you get married you must not even play around with the idea of sex or come near it until you have gotten married and then you must stick to your wife forever as if she was your own flesh.

Now some of you out there me believe that that is the extreme but remember this the man that took the suggestion of his Heavenly Father or his mother or what is recorded in the Bible, HE IS FREE FREE FREE FROM THE DISEASE that you could yet from the ACTIONS of the other guy.

So it is restrictions like this that often prevents people from really really diving into a strong unshakable faith.

since they're on the fence regarding faith,
they are easily shaken or maybe they attempt to have faith only half ass or maybe even 75% effort,

REMEMBER Jesus said that you must EXERCISE FAITH IN HIM.

REMEMBER what EXERCISING means,
ACTION, PRACTICE.

if you need to lose 40 pounds,

if you buy an expensive video on how to lose weight and you RELIGIOUSLY WATCH THAT VIDEO every morning and every night but you only watch this video from the couch even if the video says guaranteed to lose 10 pounds in 1 week,,
if you don't get off the couch and actually EXERCISE instead of JUST HAVING FAITH THAT THE VIDEO will help you lose weight.

ANYONE can say I have faith,,,
IS YOUR FAITH UNSHAKABLE?

SO what we see is a lot of times people don't really give it the effort,, required to have unshakable faith they don't bother proving it to themselves they just hear other people say you should have faith and they never really give it 110% on proving it to themselves.
THEY'RE saying that they do and because they don't try hard enough they fail many times and then they don't understand why they fail or when their faith has been shaken .

its just like you said it's because THEIR FAITH WASN'T GENUINE so when other ideas come their way,, THEY WILL BE TOSSED AROUND LIKE A PLASTIC BAG ON A WINDY DAY.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You've made some rather large walls of texts.

I am sorry that I do not have the time at the moment to break some of them down. For now I will just drop in a link for you to check out, if you so wish.

Science and History in the Bible

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are


and so on and so on...

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

He sounds like a "loving merciful creator" to me that, Jesus talked about.

that's just it... he SOUNDS like it...

but what is actually written about said god of the OT is quite different then what he seems to claim

Dictators and tyrants always seem to believe their all good and righteous

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

He sounds like a "loving merciful creator" to me that, Jesus talked about.

that's just it... he SOUNDS like it...

but what is actually written about said god of the OT is quite different then what he seems to claim

Dictators and tyrants always seem to believe their all good and righteous

I ONLY BELIEVE PROOF

I PERSONALLY IN MY OWN LIFE

feelings and asking God directly what I need and HE OVERLY PROVIDES FOR ME.

I HAVE SEEN THE PROOF OF THE MERCY

GIGANTIC LOVE, LOVE GALORE,

PERSONALLY WITHOUT A DOUBT IN MY LIFE,, and IN OTHER PEOPLE'S LIFE .

I know that's their story but when you seen it yourself in your own life, where nothing else makes sense other than GOD DID IT for you or show his love directly to you,
THEN HOW CAN I DENY IT, it doesn't just happen one time it happens over and over again.

I've already been through the skeptical part of the denial part of the "all that's gotta be a coincidence", PART.

I've been through those emotions before,
and it wasn't just for brief moments of my life it's been UNREAL, the amount of love and and personal attention from God he has proven it to ME,.

THE DIFFERENCE between that and a TYRANT,,,
A TYRANT CANNOT PROVE HIS LOVE you always see right through him.

I have studied many tyrants over thousands of years of history of tyrants,

THERE'S a GIGANTIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOD and this TYRANT YOU SPEAK OF.

YOU ALWAYS find out later or it is SO OBVIOUS that he is a tyrant.

MY FATHER WAS A TYRANT!
I literally threw all my stuff out the window from my room just to get away from this guy
As soon as I turn 18.

THEN I disappeared for seven years not even telling him that I was alive or not.

I think after spending almost 20 years with a tyrant I would know the difference between a tyrant and MY LOVING CREATOR and GOD

OBVIOUS OBVIOUS OBVIOUS IN STARK CONTRAST.

God has personally PROVE his LOVE TO ME,

NOT JUST WHAT I READ IN HIS BOOK,

BUT I'VE LITERALLY TESTED GOD OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
ON HIS CLAIM OF BEING A MERCIFUL GOD.

SO I totally and absolutely have no doubt and and I completely feel the OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU FEEL.

IT'S just undeniable unbelievable proof so I can't even understand your comment that you can even be close to correct on this Topic.

I'm so sorry you feel this way,
It must have at least at (one time) been painful for you.

Maybe not now, you've gotten over it it sounds like but I'm having a blast knowing that the almighty of the universe will sit there and just prove it to me over and over again how much he loves me.

So because he has proven it to me personally I have to agree with all the best friends that God has had along with his only begotten Son.
Their feelings toward God.

If you read in the Bible, the way God's friends felt about him they feel the same way I do and it's because God proved his love to them also

The only thing I can tell you is you have to TRULY BE GENUINE and DRAW CLOSE to HIM and THEN HE'S's GOING to BE MORE THAN WILLING to PROVE IT TO YOU.

BUT you have to have a deep personal evaluation with yourself to make sure that when you want proof of God's love you gotta be willing to be very genuine and humble and constantly pray for him to prove it to you.

I had to pray more than once to get that proof I had to pray a lot, over and over again and then,, then once it happen, I NOW pray to him to give THANKS OVER and OVER AGAIN.
Now,, Not to request proof anymore,
He's giving me plenty of that.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are

and so on and so on...

200 years? The reference to that is NOT relevant,

I'm just saying they gave up finally 200 years ago they threw up their hands,

they said I quit,

they just decided to leave it up to religion against religion.

What I'm talking about is that these archaeologists studied thousands of years,,

They studied thousands of years,,

so I'm talking about thousands of years,

Sorry you did not get my point on that.
Ps.

They may have not found proof or physical proof that Adam and Eve lived,

But they have found or they strongly believe they have found proof of Noah

Also they definitely found proof of Sodom Gomorrah and what happened to them.
I personally experienced that proof.

Now if you want me to take on the tedious job of showing you all that proof then I guess I'm not sure I have the time there's so much evidence.

But also keep in mind,
Thousands of years from now I may not find any proof that you existed at all,, Either.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You've made some rather large walls of texts.

I am sorry that I do not have the time at the moment to break some of them down. For now I will just drop in a link for you to check out, if you so wish.

Science and History in the Bible

MUCH THANKS FOR THAT,

But I have studied that research before and what I have concluded is that there are five reasons why I trust the research from the Bible if you want to review my 5 reasons why you'll have to refer to my post to,,,

(((NateTheAnimater)))

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You've made some rather large walls of texts.

I am sorry that I do not have the time at the moment to break some of them down. For now I will just drop in a link for you to check out, if you so wish.

Science and History in the Bible

I believe after studying the research in that link what came to my mind is what Jesus said at,,

[Matthew 22; 29]

29  In reply Jesus said to them: “You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

And I tend to agree with Jesus.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

You've made some rather large walls of texts.

I am sorry that I do not have the time at the moment to break some of them down. For now I will just drop in a link for you to check out, if you so wish.

Science and History in the Bible

And you have to remember one thing,,

ANY website even those with lots of credibility,,
ANYONE can just come in there and make valid points and tear their research apart,,

THIS TOPIC can only be dealt with on a personal level,,

SOME PEOPLE, yes it will work showing them the research,

But this has to do with what is inside of you and that's just as complicated than going to a reputable website or , not so reputable, website and having them lay out what they believe are facts,

This topic can only be solved on a personal level and you have to be HUMBLE about it HONEST with yourself REALLY REALLY want the TRUTH,

Beg for the TRUTH,
Because just the SLIGHTEST, CHANCE that it could mean LIFE ETERNAL to you.

THE power of Satan's TACTICS of PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE,
IS strong,, STRONGER than us, individually.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Believe me there is a lot more proof in fact so much proof that what the Bible says is accurate that in the 1800's ARCHAEOLOGISTS no longer needed to go to COURT BECAUSE THE LAWYERS THAT WERE AGAINST THE BIBLE GAVE UP BECAUSE just a little while longer and the ARCHAEOLOGISTS would always come up with THE PROOF THAT THE BIBLE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Well that was 200 years ago...

We have better data now obviously, and we know the bible is not accurate... in some cases yes it is... but it is far from infallible if that's what you're getting at...

For instance... the exodus... no evidence what so ever... not a shred...

Sodom... Nothing

Noah... Nothing

the flood... nothing

Adam and eve... nothing

Abraham... little to nothing but a small shack that "might" have been lived in around his time...

people were naïve in the 1800s, and religious people are still just as naïve today... well at least the fundamentalists are

and so on and so on...

My mom told me Jesus was teaching us lessons. She said some people take the Bible too literally as every word is written by God. I believe Jesus to be an extremely intelligent teacher, but I don't look to the Bible as a history lesson.

My own personal philosophies about Satan and the "serpent"..... It used to be a male dominated society back then women didn't have rights and even today men are responsible for 95% of violent crime. Angel spelled backwards is " legna" . Men have an extra leg that looks like a serpent. It's been translated through four languages , so that might be a coincidence. I seen artistic impression by one of my favorite artists who doesn't have faith but tells religious stories. In his stories all men go to hell and all women go to heaven. People are sexually imbalanced cause of their hormones and genetic makeup. But if you think of all the men and women you know, women are generally kinder and better people.

I also got a gay cousin. I read that if a man lies with another man he should be stoned to death. Back then men were built like Troy and it might have been considered very cruel for a man to have sex with another man or male child. It might have been a painful traumatic event and maybe not love like considered today. I need to study the history of the world but I try to consider a lot of things. Maybe try to see what he meant?

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

BUT I'VE LITERALLY TESTED GOD OVER AND OVER AND OVER. ON HIS CLAIM OF BEING A MERCIFUL GOD.

So Could you elaborate more about how you went about testing God's claim of being a loving,merciful father figure?

I had to pray more than once to get that proof I had to pray a lot, over and over again and then,, then once it happen, I NOW pray to him to give THANKS OVER and OVER AGAIN. Now,, Not to request proof anymore, He's giving me plenty of that.

Again could you specifically cite your anecdotal... I mean if you're really just going to make an argument appealing to emotions and the irrational concept of answered prayer at the very least give details. This is too vague even for a christian to fully grasp. But if that's simply it, That God just magically "proved" to you and only you that he truly is the character depicted in scripture, you might want to ask God why his replies are incredibly vague for a deity who claims to have created the universe. Also if this proof doesn't meet the criteria of scientific evidence than its completely worthless.

I myself may not have scientific evidence to prove God is a fraud. What is Imprudent with that in mind is to just continue to worship this character when you haven't even heard the other side of story, all you've been told about Satan, Lucifer is entirely one sided. To ignore another individual's perspective simply because you've been told to, is nothing more than blind faith and false hope that you treasure as an honorable long-term investment for a reward so inconsequential to the life you currently live is proof to me that your stupid enough to swallow anything at face-value.

Why not study both sides?

Come back to me once you have.

Its wonderful that you guys post your testamonies about how much you love the bible...

I love the book to, but that doesn't change what i've found within the book over the years... And i am not just a casual obvserver when it comes to bibical study

The only books that have any value in this age are the gospels...

That is the only constant when it comes to said book

Thanks for replying though