Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

No your a gnostic?

I am who I am... which does not require a title or label

Why did Jesus come to show the world the one true God
What was the reason

Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So you label everyone else but you yourself, you are beyond labels

Watch the proud fall

All you have done is quote scripture, that doesn't prove anything, only that you can copy and paste
Well done you

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
I actually agree somewhat with what your saying... Except for maybe the link to a Jefferson bethke slam poetry. Jesus's teachings I actually agree with myself , although Theism is just another excuse for Christ followers to continue cherry-picking what aspects of religion they should follow. You wanna believe in a God fine that's your business, to say there's a secret group of religious zealots that are infiltrating Christianity that's fine too this is a conspiracy site. But to say I've somehow been deceived is a baseless assertion.

Baseless assertions?

No, I gave you the cold hard facts.

If God ever shows up in your house without so much as a knock, I can promise you that you will never again look at Theism as "just another excuse"...

I only speak of what I have experienced myself personally.

You speak of what you THINK you know.

A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion.

Personal experience trumps human opinions every time.

Wisdom is only gained through experience.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
The nature of the Truth is that not everyone hears it. The proof of God is everywhere. Creation itself is proof.

Knowing the Truth and proclaiming it is not pride. I can provide evidence, which I already have, but proof is something that comes from God. The truth is either God revealed the truth or He didn't. The truth is you have been given the ability to seek the truth. Where there is smoke... Me, I know because I spent years seeking. My God has revealed Himself to me. He does that after you seek Him. He does it because He said He would.

You can't know if I am telling the truth, though. That is because God designed your reality so that it is up to you, personally, to seek the truth. If you hear it, and believe it, you will seek God. And then you will know what I know.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I don't have faith for I have seen and since then I have not nor will I consider for even a split second that my belief in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are wrong even if it cost me my life.

As Jesus said, What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops. 28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matthew 10:28

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

longest sentence ever.

period.com

welcome to ATS, vincent, please use punctuation, and break up your text every three or four "lines."
I hate to say it, but Wallotext doesn't work so well here. TL;DR

Try again?

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Wow..that was a load..

Seriously though you might want to take off the "I-love-God" beer googles and reexamine the book a little more objectively. We were not created according to your mythology for any other purpose but to worship God and his son, anything else is merely an insignificant secondary to the so called plan.

the Bible tells me that God has not changed his perfect purpose for mankind he just put that one on hold until we resolve this issue just like if we were in a classroom and there was a professor that had all the proof in the world that this is the correct equation for a particular problem on the chalkboard and one student raises his hand and says no no I have a better equation well the teacher would do himself a disservice in convincing the class that she had the only correct equation if he was to excuse the student and tell him to go to the principal's office then all the other children would wonder did their classmate have a point shouldn't the teacher have let him prove his point so they can see that the student was mistaken and the teacher had the only true equation for the problem on the chalkboard?

Yeah that is a good question? Why the # would you kick out a student who is clearly so arrogant to propose anything other than the already undisputed equation? Why would the professor not just have out right called him/or her on their bull# in front of all the students to prove to everyone why his equation is wrong. No instead the professor decides to give the ignorant fool ammo by casting him out of the class and taking a few ignorant fools with him so they can roam the halls, spreading there fiendishly nefarious equation to their fellow students...
Does this seriously not sound off to you? Why would an all powerful deity not just show Satan how wrong he is? We are talking about the same deity who created the universe right?

I studied the Bible by myself living under a tyrant, (my parents) and the Bible to me showed me that I could live under the opposite of a tyrant so I studied the Bible in detail for over 30 years and it made me happy more happy than living under my parents so my understanding of the Bible is on a majority level the opposite of yours and there were times I thought otherwise but further research with other scriptures combined in other areas proved me wrong and now I don't feel like God created man just so they could be worshipped but that God loved life so much he wanted to share it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

longest sentence ever.

period.com

welcome to ATS, vincent, please use punctuation, and break up your text every three or four "lines."
I hate to say it, but Wallotext doesn't work so well here. TL;DR

Try again?

Sorry for that I was getting ready for work and had to use voice text.

So my reply was basically just voice texting my feelings on the matter.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Wow..that was a load..

Seriously though you might want to take off the "I-love-God" beer googles and reexamine the book a little more objectively. We were not created according to your mythology for any other purpose but to worship God and his son, anything else is merely an insignificant secondary to the so called plan.

the Bible tells me that God has not changed his perfect purpose for mankind he just put that one on hold until we resolve this issue just like if we were in a classroom and there was a professor that had all the proof in the world that this is the correct equation for a particular problem on the chalkboard and one student raises his hand and says no no I have a better equation well the teacher would do himself a disservice in convincing the class that she had the only correct equation if he was to excuse the student and tell him to go to the principal's office then all the other children would wonder did their classmate have a point shouldn't the teacher have let him prove his point so they can see that the student was mistaken and the teacher had the only true equation for the problem on the chalkboard?

Yeah that is a good question? Why the # would you kick out a student who is clearly so arrogant to propose anything other than the already undisputed equation? Why would the professor not just have out right called him/or her on their bull# in front of all the students to prove to everyone why his equation is wrong. No instead the professor decides to give the ignorant fool ammo by casting him out of the class and taking a few ignorant fools with him so they can roam the halls, spreading there fiendishly nefarious equation to their fellow students...
Does this seriously not sound off to you? Why would an all powerful deity not just show Satan how wrong he is? We are talking about the same deity who created the universe right?

Let me just make sure you understand my example of the professor.

The professor is the Almighty God he is also the creator of the human manual like the car manual.

The child that speaks out he is the great resistor and jealous of the professors prestige equation on how humans would prosper under his direction, the human equation.
The child wants to look as good and feel as smart or as important as the professor so he believes he has an equation that would work better for the whole class.
So instead of dismissing the child, or saying "just forget what the child is saying and let's move on to the next point",
The professor allows, in front of the whole class or you could say the whole universe, the child is able to show his equation.
So right now all of mankind is being shown this equation under the guidance of this child or you could say a creation that has made himself a god called Satan he is influencing men over all the earth to prove his point that humans should use their free will to just do whatever they feel whatever they want at any time.
Now once the whole universe realizes that the child's equation does not work and God has given the whole creation, that came from Adam and Eve, a chance to prove themselves on God's side and understand that God's equation works perfectly even under these terrible conditions and now being imperfect entities (mankind),, that we are living under now or you could say this alternate reality, that sucks, then God has promised, and (this is in the Bible), that he will undo all of the unjust pain and suffering and death that came from experiencing this child's equation and after God has completely resolved this issue no one will ever complain that if anyone goes anymore, down the same route that the child presented, in the beginning, no one will complain if that man or angel decides to go down that road again, will be destroyed immediately and no one will have an issue about it, they will say in their hearts good I'm glad God got rid of that guy right away we don't want to make the same mistake as we did before it was too painful and evil.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

This is Luciferian doctrine.

Every religious person in the world must face a crisis of faith where they learn about a new system of belief and must consider ... "What if?" What if god is not God but Allah? What if the Buddhists have it correct? Maybe they know something over there when they practice Shinto ...

If such questions can shake you, then the faith you had wasn't very genuine.

if you are doing it because you are afraid of hell, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. even if you are doing the right thing.

i would rather someone be honestly unscrupulous than falsely angelic. at least you know who you are dealing with.

a reply to: ketsuko

This is Luciferian doctrine.

What's luciferian is believing that God isn't Pure but that God is both Light and darkness, Love and hatred, Creator and destroyer.

It's because of this belief in an impure "god" that now people can use those very claims of such impurity against The True Pure Eternal God to promote satan/the devil.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NateTheAnimator

This is Luciferian doctrine.

Every religious person in the world must face a crisis of faith where they learn about a new system of belief and must consider ... "What if?" What if god is not God but Allah? What if the Buddhists have it correct? Maybe they know something over there when they practice Shinto ...

If such questions can shake you, then the faith you had wasn't very genuine.

So true in every aspect.

Luciferian doctrines (there are more than one but the two most popular) are the "Satan is the good guy, the bringer of wisdom" and "The doctrine of Self, you are your own god, you can be your own god". We have a lot of these here on ATS, mostly the latter.

a reply to: Raggedyman

So you label everyone else but you yourself, you are beyond labels

where did I label anyone?

You are trying to label me a gnostic, which I am not...

Watch the proud fall

All you have done is quote scripture, that doesn't prove anything, only that you can copy and paste
Well done you

who said im trying to prove anything?

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: ketsuko

This is Luciferian doctrine.

What's luciferian is believing that God isn't Pure but that God is both Light and darkness, Love and hatred, Creator and destroyer.

It's because of this belief in an impure "god" that now people can use those very claims of such impurity against The True Pure Eternal God to promote satan/the devil.

"light" and "dark" is a false dichotomy. its always gotta be "us" vs "them", a boogeyman to scare us with and a nice tasty treat to reward us with, like little children. but anyone who has gone through life with both eyes open has seen clearly that dark and light have the most meaningful relationship in all of existence, and each is lost without the other. in fact, its impossible for either to exist without the other. so if you think they are at war, thats because the political machine wants to make profit from making you think that.

a reply to: ketsuko

I had no choice into entering my former faith, when you live in societies where the dominant ideology has its tentacles wrapped around every aspect of life in some form for centuries your forced to adopt its beliefs as your own or risk being ostracized or suffer severe life threatening punishments.(i.e Islamic societies that practice sharia law) The reason we can discuss these ideas openly is because our rulers allow us, historically as you know that hasn't always been the case.

Within these societies though, dogmatic religions create a state of dissociation and deluded cognitive thinking about the deeper issues within or without the society.(e.g psychiatry in the past has labeled those who are mentally unfit as spiritually deficient and would operate as such. Same sex relations and transgenderism have been considered for the longest time a form of mental deficiency up until the DSM-III I think? Most of this mentality based on christian doctrine) This is the same for every religious belief not just Christianity and they will vary in their effects over the population.

I see the transitioning between religions and ideas not as a crisis of faith but a mere curiosity to explore other realms of culture and lifestyles that make up their beliefs. In other words if you choose to adopt those different beliefs for personal reasons such as it has improved said persons overall health and fitness. I think that is more than acceptable, shunning people for changing their minds on certain ideas? You may call it indecisive and disingenuous, I see it as people exploring their consciousnesses. Or their life forces or whatever you wanna call it.

I don't see how the christian doctrine preached by pastors today, read and spread around by fellow Christians is Luciferian? If your Idea of the character God is different, elaborate please...

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

I totally understand.

Looking forward to future posts from you.

a reply to: ketsuko

Every religious person in the world must face a crisis of faith where they learn about a new system of belief and must consider ... "What if?" What if god is not God but Allah? What if the Buddhists have it correct? Maybe they know something over there when they practice Shinto ...

Well, not every religious person in the world is even AWARE of those other "new" systems of belief. Be thankful you live in a society where such ideas are open information.

If such questions can shake you, then the faith you had wasn't very genuine.

I would say, rather, that if such questions don't shake you, then the "faith" you have is so deeply embedded in your mind that you are blinded by your "faith."

Genuine people, coming across new information, readily absorb and weigh that new information against whatever information they already have (because they realize they were indoctrinated). I mean, I'm talking about genuine "free-thinking" people. Maybe not you lot.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

Yes. Now I'm an atheist.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator
Jesus may be God's kid but the same logical fallacy applies to him as well.
Jesus may be God's kid but the same logical fallacy applies to him as well.

Even if we were to both willfully ignore the OT, God is still not the 'good-guy'. Punishing your kids for eternity because they refuse to acknowledge your invisible authority? How in the world is that merciful? or loving for that matter? To me that seems incredibly sadistic behavior coming from an all powerful entity, don't you think?

According to the OT God was the good guy. God made a perfect house for us to live in. Never had to worry about house payments or utility bills or doctors or hospitals of rescue and fires or even the weather. It was all perfect with free stuff. And the kicker was that you never had to die. No such thing as a tooth ache or being hungry.

Now guess who screwed all of this up? Go ahead I'll wait. Tum de dum ------------------------------ Well did you get the answer? If you didn't know then I will tell you. It was Mom and Pop. No No, it was not God who screwed this all up. It was Mom who wanted equal rights with the Guy that gave her all the free stuff. Some people call this greed but it was actually the free will to throw the rule book in the dump and hate the hand that fed her. Mom took her choice the same way that you took your choice. So Mom and Pop wanted to knock the Guy that loved them so much that He gave them free stuff. That is what you see today. The Moms and Pops from then on screwed the Guy who loved them so much that He simply let them have their own way.

Punishing your kids for eternity because they refuse to acknowledge your invisible authority? How in the world is that merciful? or loving for that matter?

But you see these kids are not the kids of God. God only had two kids. All the rest belong to the Moms and Pops who bad mouthed the Guy that gave the free stuff. It's called Pro Creation and not Creation. Big difference. You got this all wrong. You blame God for what people did. That is what is going on today. The bad mouths are blaming the cops for them stealing and killing. Same ole story from way back when. By the way God does not punish you forever. He simply does not want this kind of crap in His new world. He now gives us a chance to live forever and get the free stuff that He gave His kids. The ball is in your court.

a reply to: Seede

According to the OT God was the good guy. God made a perfect house for us to live in. Never had to worry about house payments or utility bills or doctors or hospitals of rescue and fires or even the weather. It was all perfect with free stuff. And the kicker was that you never had to die. No such thing as a tooth ache or being hungry.

Yes all very true, it was in essence a paradise! That you and I can agree on. The following though...Is kind of fallacious;

Now guess who screwed all of this up? Go ahead I'll wait. Tum de dum ------------------------------ Well did you get the answer? If you didn't know then I will tell you. It was Mom and Pop. No No, it was not God who screwed this all up. It was Mom who wanted equal rights with the Guy that gave her all the free stuff. Some people call this greed but it was actually the free will to throw the rule book in the dump and hate the hand that fed her. Mom took her choice the same way that you took your choice. So Mom and Pop wanted to knock the Guy that loved them so much that He gave them free stuff. That is what you see today. The Moms and Pops from then on screwed the Guy who loved them so much that He simply let them have their own way.

So are you admitting that Adam and Eve indeed lacked free will prior to disobeying God? Why then punish the descendants to a grueling fate of turmoil and hardship on earth? What is all that supposed to prove? Tough love on the descendants when they never were able to experience the blissful ignorance of basking in God's glory? On top of that are you implying that God an all powerful,all-knowing, omnipresence of a character was not able to foresee the potential "corruption" of his children and intentionally allowed it to happen? I would call Eve's actions discovering new knowledge that God was willingly holding out on them.

But you see these kids are not the kids of God. God only had two kids. All the rest belong to the Moms and Pops who bad mouthed the Guy that gave the free stuff. It's called Pro Creation and not Creation. Big difference. You got this all wrong. You blame God for what people did. That is what is going on today. The bad mouths are blaming the cops for them stealing and killing. Same ole story from way back when. By the way God does not punish you forever. He simply does not want this kind of crap in His new world. He now gives us a chance to live forever and get the free stuff that He gave His kids. The ball is in your court.

Yes genetically the descendants are Adam and Eve's children, technically their also Gods kids as well. I even have the fictional book to back me up; Acts 17:24-29, John 1:12 read it for your self. If were God's children we are his responsibility, If he wants to continue standing by as more people are killed and having their rights violated that's his fault and his fault that he allowed Eve to be tempted to begin with.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

Yes. Now I'm an atheist.

When you say that you are an atheist does that mean also that you have this really strong FAITH that even though you were not there, there was a big bang that created the universe because when you say you are an atheist a lot of atheists are only switching from no longer having the FAITH that the Son of God sacrificed his life for mankind to get eternal life with no more pain suffering crime violence extra, and that God would make that happen, on the other hand atheists believe that life happened all by chance or an accident even though they have to put FAITH that this is what happened, because they cannot prove because they were not there. ??