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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Dude... I've been studying the bible for a long time
Jehovah/YHWH... is NOT God... that is the truth
So no I am not on HE/she/it's side
Your book says prove all things and hold fast to that which is good... I've had more then sufficient proof that the entity of the OT is NOT God... confirmed by the very words of Jesus himself...
said OT god is NOT good... but again feel free to "hold fast" to him
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Dude... I've been studying the bible for a long time
Jehovah/YHWH... is NOT God... that is the truth
So no I am not on HE/she/it's side
Your book says prove all things and hold fast to that which is good... I've had more then sufficient proof that the entity of the OT is NOT God... confirmed by the very words of Jesus himself...
said OT god is NOT good... but again feel free to "hold fast" to him
GOD ONLY DECIDED TO CREATE something other than himself for the sole purpose that HE LOVES LIFE so much that he wants others to experience life, with free will, not love there CREATOR because they are programmed to, like a robot, but by choice, meaning they have figured out their Creator and they love him because of who he is,
Try to understand this way , YOU have many children, (let's say) , And your neighbors, because of their lifestyles,, they prove to be very dangerous to the health and the life of your children, Now you can try to preach to your neighbors to say hey look can you either go away or please do not come near my children with your lifestyles? because I'm afraid that if you continue, my children will die.
Your children are just like you, they agree with you, they want you to protect them, they go to you for advice and just because you give them that advice, are you going to say that your children are indoctrinated? and had no choice at all? but they only follow your rules, BUT YET YOUR RULES ARE KEEPING THEM ALIVE !!
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Well first of all "Jehovah" isn't the name of the OT god... this name came about when people started to pronounce the letters given in the book... the name Jehovah wasn't even used until the early 11th century
Second, Jesus didn't ever use a name when HE spoke about God... HE said Father, and I do the same
Third, He called the people who were basically the most knowledgeable people around when it came to the scrolls they used "a generation of vipers, who have never seen nor heard God at any time"
IF Jesus adhered to OT scripture as most Christians believe, he wouldn't have changed rules... he would have stuck to the book, and to the very word of it... he did not.
The OT has 613 laws... Jesus had two...
Theres so much evidence against the OT within the NT its almost unreal that people can't see it... but again, Christians don't usually read the book... they listen to their pastors... and follow blindly without actually looking for the inconsistencies
originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
GOD ONLY DECIDED TO CREATE something other than himself for the sole purpose that HE LOVES LIFE so much that he wants others to experience life, with free will, not love there CREATOR because they are programmed to, like a robot, but by choice, meaning they have figured out their Creator and they love him because of who he is,
Sure that's great that you want to see God's purpose for humanity with such nobility but there is nothing noble about murdering your creations because they choose not to take your advice. There's also a clear contradiction of beliefs in your statement, You can't believe that God has made a plan, a destiny for humanity and knows everything that happens in it while also attributing those that deviate away from that plan are somehow capable of exerting free will. That's absurd.
Try to understand this way , YOU have many children, (let's say) , And your neighbors, because of their lifestyles,, they prove to be very dangerous to the health and the life of your children, Now you can try to preach to your neighbors to say hey look can you either go away or please do not come near my children with your lifestyles? because I'm afraid that if you continue, my children will die.
In your example you seem to ignore that fact that the reason the children are dying is not a direct result from the neighbors or their dangerous lifestyle that the Children chose to adopt, but from the parent who refuses to allow his children to live other lifestyles and punishes them with the sentence of death and hardship.
Your children are just like you, they agree with you, they want you to protect them, they go to you for advice and just because you give them that advice, are you going to say that your children are indoctrinated? and had no choice at all? but they only follow your rules, BUT YET YOUR RULES ARE KEEPING THEM ALIVE !!
Yes, yes I would. If a parent refuses to let their child be exposed,learn other lifestyles and or punish questioning the parent's lifestyle and authority, that is in fact a form indoctrination. Doesn't change how much you butter up God's intentions its all the same. If the rules of the lifestyle are adaptable to the flow of time, you might have a point. Knowing the book and its constituents I doubt that very much. Also, honestly a long life of being indoctrinated by a tyrant is hell in comparison to a short life of absolute freedom of choice.
originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
GOD ONLY DECIDED TO CREATE something other than himself for the sole purpose that HE LOVES LIFE so much that he wants others to experience life, with free will, not love there CREATOR because they are programmed to, like a robot, but by choice, meaning they have figured out their Creator and they love him because of who he is,
Sure that's great that you want to see God's purpose for humanity with such nobility but there is nothing noble about murdering your creations because they choose not to take your advice. There's also a clear contradiction of beliefs in your statement, You can't believe that God has made a plan, a destiny for humanity and knows everything that happens in it while also attributing those that deviate away from that plan are somehow capable of exerting free will. That's absurd.
Try to understand this way , YOU have many children, (let's say) , And your neighbors, because of their lifestyles,, they prove to be very dangerous to the health and the life of your children, Now you can try to preach to your neighbors to say hey look can you either go away or please do not come near my children with your lifestyles? because I'm afraid that if you continue, my children will die.
In your example you seem to ignore that fact that the reason the children are dying is not a direct result from the neighbors or their dangerous lifestyle that the Children chose to adopt, but from the parent who refuses to allow his children to live other lifestyles and punishes them with the sentence of death and hardship.
Your children are just like you, they agree with you, they want you to protect them, they go to you for advice and just because you give them that advice, are you going to say that your children are indoctrinated? and had no choice at all? but they only follow your rules, BUT YET YOUR RULES ARE KEEPING THEM ALIVE !!
Yes, yes I would. If a parent refuses to let their child be exposed,learn other lifestyles and or punish questioning the parent's lifestyle and authority, that is in fact a form indoctrination. Doesn't change how much you butter up God's intentions its all the same. If the rules of the lifestyle are adaptable to the flow of time, you might have a point. Knowing the book and its constituents I doubt that very much. Also, honestly a long life of being indoctrinated by a tyrant is hell in comparison to a short life of absolute freedom of choice.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
You assume far to much about someone you do not know brother...
What makes you believe I haven't "picked though the 613 laws" in detail?
the question is have you?
Not all of the laws are even agreeable to what Jesus taught... of course im sure you know that
originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
GOD ONLY DECIDED TO CREATE something other than himself for the sole purpose that HE LOVES LIFE so much that he wants others to experience life, with free will, not love there CREATOR because they are programmed to, like a robot, but by choice, meaning they have figured out their Creator and they love him because of who he is,
Sure that's great that you want to see God's purpose for humanity with such nobility but there is nothing noble about murdering your creations because they choose not to take your advice. There's also a clear contradiction of beliefs in your statement, You can't believe that God has made a plan, a destiny for humanity and knows everything that happens in it while also attributing those that deviate away from that plan are somehow capable of exerting free will. That's absurd.
.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Why am I not shocked...
Sigh... dietary laws?
Said OT god gave his people rules about their diet to stay "pure"... Jesus dismissed them
Pretty much shows you haven't looked though them in the detail you claim
SO it looks like you do not understand the connection or you do not understand both Jehovah's personality or Jesus personality and why they do and say the things recorded in the Bible
SO THIS PRETTY MUCH SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOT STUDIED THE LAWS IN DETAIL LIKE YOU CLAIM,
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
The point being... "god" gave a rule... Jesus over turned it, along with many others
So I can actually use a typical Christian argument here...
IF Jesus overturned even one of gods laws, why not just toss the entire book out... I get that crap all the time lol
The people of the OT were conquers... they pillaged and plundered their way through the country side after being "released" from bondage, which theres actually no evidence of in the first place.
They did this in the name of their god... then suddenly 400 years of silence
Jesus come along, and again quite suddenly God was a peaceful entity... the plundering and killing stopped
its obvious that these are not the same God's
blatantly obvious... but this is just my opinion
SO it looks like you do not understand the connection or you do not understand both Jehovah's personality or Jesus personality and why they do and say the things recorded in the Bible
SO THIS PRETTY MUCH SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOT STUDIED THE LAWS IN DETAIL LIKE YOU CLAIM,
oh but I have, which is why I've come to this conclusion... and many others have as well... im far from solo in this
I understand the "LACK" of connection between the two entities... One was a violent terrorist, if not the original terrorist/tyrant...
The Father is merciful, forgiving, and peaceful...
There is no connection between the two... ONE is LOVE... the other is a jealous, envious, wrathful critter... not worthy of worship
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
The point being... "god" gave a rule... Jesus over turned it, along with many others
So I can actually use a typical Christian argument here...
IF Jesus overturned even one of gods laws, why not just toss the entire book out... I get that crap all the time lol
The people of the OT were conquerers... they pillaged and plundered their way through the country side after being "released" from bondage, which theres actually no evidence of in the first place.
They did this in the name of their god... then suddenly 400 years of silence
Jesus come along, and again quite suddenly God was a peaceful entity... the plundering and killing stopped
its obvious that these are not the same God's
blatantly obvious... but this is just my opinion
SO it looks like you do not understand the connection or you do not understand both Jehovah's personality or Jesus personality and why they do and say the things recorded in the Bible
SO THIS PRETTY MUCH SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOT STUDIED THE LAWS IN DETAIL LIKE YOU CLAIM,
oh but I have, which is why I've come to this conclusion... and many others have as well... im far from solo in this
I understand the "LACK" of connection between the two entities... One was a violent terrorist, if not the original terrorist/tyrant...
The Father is merciful, forgiving, and peaceful...
There is no connection between the two... ONE is LOVE... the other is a jealous, envious, wrathful critter... not worthy of worship
Jesus learned his love from the OT God Jehovah
IF Jesus adhered to OT scripture as most Christians believe, he wouldn't have changed rules... he would have stuck to the book, and to the very word of it... he did not.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
Jesus learned his love from the OT God Jehovah
no he did not...
Jesus and the Father are one... This does not mean one and the same, it means one mind... same motivation
The OT god was a killer... Jesus didn't harm a fly
He learned love from the Father... Not from the OT tyrant