Christians, have you ever considered you might be on the wrong side?

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

FOR EXAMPLE; if he had not confuse the language we may have been driving cars a few years or a few decades before Christ came on earth, that's why I don't view it as murder I may not have the ability to figure out conditions environment a nations that teaches their children's one way of life, parents to teach their children to be evil, Or to have evil views, in order to protect myself from them.

Again your own example only further proves That God from the OT wasn't not there to nurture us into reaching our full potential...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

How can you say that when you have read that Jesus actually had a conversation with Satan I thought you were a strong advocate of the gospel.

Yes... this is true

What actually happened in that scenario was Jesus fighting his inner desires, not talking and having a conversation with an actual entity.

He went to the wilderness to conquer said issues... with the power he actually had being the son of God he could have made bread for himself... but did not use said power for his own needs though he could have...

HE could have jumped off that cliff fully knowning that the Fathers angels would have caught him, but did not want to tempt the Father because he had a mission to accomplish...

HE could have been king over the whole material world and all things given to him... all that was needed was to worship the material... but he said back the hell up satan... I only have one God, and worship only him...

its really not complicated, and lets no credibility to the actual existence of said horned red guy

But it does not look like Jesus agrees with you,

SATAN IS NOT JUST A SYMBOL OF EVIL

It is fairly easy to assert that the Satan we read about in the Bible is merely a symbol of all that is evil. But is that really what the Bible teaches? If so, why does the Bible describe Satan as speaking with Jesus Christ and with Almighty God himself? Consider two instances of such conversations.

HERE'S WHEN SATAN SPOKE WITH JESUS

When Jesus began his ministry, the Devil tried to entice him with three temptations. First, Satan endeavored to pressure Jesus to use his God-given powers in a selfish way to satisfy his own hunger. Then, the Devil dared Jesus to risk his life foolishly and draw attention to himself. Finally, Satan offered Jesus rulership over all the kingdoms of the world in return for one small act of worship. Jesus rebuffed all three clever attacks, each time quoting the Scriptures.—Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13.

To whom was Jesus talking? To an evil quality within himself? According to the Scriptures, Jesus “has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15) The Bible also says: “He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.” (1 Peter 2:22) Jesus remained perfect, holding to a course of integrity. He never let any evil quality develop within himself. Clearly, Jesus was not talking to some evil part of himself; he was talking to a real person.

The same conversation reveals further evidence that Satan is a real person.

Recall that the Devil offered Jesus worldwide rulership in return for an act of worship. (Matthew 4:8, 9) This offer would have been meaningless if Satan were not real. Furthermore, Jesus did not question Satan’s claim to such impressive authority.

After Jesus rejected the temptations, the Devil “departed from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Does Satan in this case seem like a quality of evil or, rather, a persistent, determined adversary?

Notice that “angels came and began to minister” to Jesus. (Matthew 4:11) Were those angels actual spirit persons, providing encouragement and practical assistance to Jesus? Clearly so. Why, then, should we assume that Satan was something other than an actual spirit being?

 HERE'S WHEN SATAN SPOKE WITH GOD

Our second instance involves the account of the God-fearing man Job. That record recounts two conversations between the Devil and God. In both cases, God praised Job for his integrity. Satan asserted that Job served God only for selfish reasons, insinuating that God was buying Job’s loyalty. In effect, the Devil claimed to know Job better than God did. Jehovah allowed Satan to rob Job of his possessions, his children, and even his health. * In time, it became obvious that Jehovah was right about Job, and Satan was proved a liar. God blessed Job for his integrity.—Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7.

In those conversations between God and Satan, was Jehovah speaking to an evil quality within himself? The Bible says: “The way of the true God is perfect.” (2 Samuel 22:31) God’s Word also says: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty.” (Revelation 4:8) Holy means pure, sacred, set apart from sin. Jehovah is perfect and flawless. He simply cannot have any evil characteristics.

Satan’s conversation with God brought real consequences to the man Job

Still, some might argue that even Job was not an actual person, so the whole conversation was allegorical. But does that argument make sense? Other Bible texts indicate that Job was a real person. For example, at James 5:7-11, we find that Job is used as an example to motivate Christians to endure hard times and as a comforting reminder that Jehovah rewards such endurance. What force would that example have if Job were not a real person and the attacks from Satan, only fictitious? Furthermore, atEzekiel 14:14, 20, Job is included with Noah and Daniel in the list of three righteous men. Like Noah and Daniel, Job was an actual person, a man of great faith. If Job was real, must not his attacker, the source of his persecution, have been real as well?

Clearly, the Bible presents Satan as a real spirit person. You might wonder, though, ‘Does he present any danger to me and my family today in this modern world?’

NOW WHAT ABOUT OUR TIME?

Imagine that a group of criminals suddenly flooded into your city. Obviously, personal safety and neighborhood morals would decline. Now consider a similar scenario: Satan and his demons—real spirit beings who, like Satan, rebelled against God—are suddenly confined to the earth. What would result? Well, think about what you see on the news locally and internationally.

Do you see an increase in senseless, violent acts, regardless of worldwide attempts to stop them?

Do you see an increase in entertainment featuring spiritism, in spite of the concern of many parents?

Do you see the environment being relentlessly destroyed, despite well-meaning efforts to save it?

Does it seem that something is seriously wrong with society—that some force is pushing mankind toward disaster?

Please note who the Bible says is behind the present trouble: “Down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. . . . Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” (Revelation 12:9, 12) After considering the evidence, many people have concluded that Satan is a dangerous spirit person, one who is actively influencing the world around us.

But what is more I had the unfortunate experience of talking to him or maybe it was one of his demonic minions.

Both times actually it was three times I knew I should not have been in the company of where when and who I was with I knew better but I did not listen to myself and I had a terrible experience believe me it was real I do not take drugs.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

FOR EXAMPLE; if he had not confuse the language we may have been driving cars a few years or a few decades before Christ came on earth, that's why I don't view it as murder I may not have the ability to figure out conditions environment a nations that teaches their children's one way of life, parents to teach their children to be evil, Or to have evil views, in order to protect myself from them.

Again your own example only further proves That God from the OT wasn't not there to nurture us into reaching our full potential...

I think he did it to save us I am fully convinced based off of what man is shown proof he is capable of today just look around you and how many destructive weapons we have today.

So I am glad that he saved us from our own stupidity now we have a chance.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

It is fairly easy to assert that the Satan we read about in the Bible is merely a symbol of all that is evil. But is that really what the Bible teaches? If so, why does the Bible describe Satan as speaking with Jesus Christ and with Almighty God himself? Consider two instances of such conversations.

Generally speaking Satan represents materialism... Not just "evil" which I actually didn't say...

And Job is a story book... its not reality, and IF it actually was a real story... it only stands to reinforce my point that the god of the OT is a selfish Nut job

Jesus wasn't actually speaking to anyone... its an allegorical story he used to tell people about his dealings with the human side of him

Just as when he called Peter Satan... He didn't mean he was possessed by the devil... he was thinking selfishly

The notion this alleged god isn't murderous is beyond silly. One could post verse after verse supporting that. Fill many pages of this thread on that alone.

For me the genocidal flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is plenty sufficient. You can spin that in Yahweh's favor, as I'm sure you will, but it won't fly. In both of those instances there would have been indiscriminate mass slaughter of infants, toddlers, young teens, pregnant mothers, adorable puppies...

No sane person with even a modicum of ethical thinking would deem that morally permissible.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

So you used to be a Satanist or are you implying that being a non-believer of the Bible is siding with Satan?

WELL I WOULD GO AS FAR AS TO SAY I HAD VERY CLOSE VIEWS TOO,,,,

[[NateTheAnimator]]

My actions made the assumption that Satan wasn't so bad and that I would be ok.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Well I don't know what to tell you. I've never believed in religion. Never believed in Satan. I've lived a moral life so far. Worst thing I've ever done is be a crappy boyfriend. I help my family run a residential care home for medically fragile children. I'd like to think that's a positive contribution to society. We are all non-believers over here. Perfectly compatible with a good life.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
The notion this alleged god isn't murderous is beyond silly. One could post verse after verse supporting that. Fill many pages of this thread on that alone.

For me the genocidal flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is plenty sufficient. You can spin that in Yahweh's favor, as I'm sure you will, but it won't fly. In both of those instances there would have been indiscriminate mass slaughter of infants, toddlers, young teens, pregnant mothers, adorable puppies...

No sane person with even a modicum of ethical thinking would deem that morally permissible.

REGARDING THE FLOOD did you not read how many chances he gave those people to jump on board and save themselves he look into their heart and he saw violence 24/7 in their hearts he said day and night they think of violence?

So the small amount of children that God had (8) compared to the level of evil that was billing and losing out of their skin wouldn't you protect your children from a bloodthirsty pack of wolves.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7
So because there were 'evil' people in those two major cities, it was morally acceptable to rain brimstone fireballs down on babies and pregnant mothers?

Sorry friend but you're going to have one hell of a time convincing me of that.

Not too mention you said earlier in ALL CAPS how powerful he is. Surely he could have just snapped his proverbial fingers and *poof* the bad people specifically are removed from Earth.

he look into their heart and he saw violence 24/7 in their hearts he said day and night they think of violence?

Infants and toddlers had violence in their hearts and in their thoughts 24/7??......

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Interesting question...

how powerful was he?

So powerful that he seemed to need a spacecraft to land on "the mountain of god"...

hmmm...

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
The notion this alleged god isn't murderous is beyond silly. One could post verse after verse supporting that. Fill many pages of this thread on that alone.

For me the genocidal flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is plenty sufficient. You can spin that in Yahweh's favor, as I'm sure you will, but it won't fly. In both of those instances there would have been indiscriminate mass slaughter of infants, toddlers, young teens, pregnant mothers, adorable puppies...

No sane person with even a modicum of ethical thinking would deem that morally permissible.

And as for Sodom and Gomorrah,
I think it is you that is spinning that one all day long

because there was an argument, (sorta) between God's friend and God himself and they kept going back and forth saying well if there is at least one good person will you save the city, and I think it went from,,,

Don't quote me on this but I think it went from 10 ,5 ,2 then 1 to none.

And so the only people that were not like a pack of wolves threatening to destroy God's people eventually with not only their love of violence but a disease ridden way of life wanting to have sex with angels and little boys,

God could not find anyone but Lot and his family to save

So God was forced to get rid of that threat.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Interesting question...

how powerful was he?

So powerful that he seemed to need a spacecraft to land on "the mountain of god"...

hmmm...

What are you guys talking about I never read of a literal spacecraft to land on top of a mountain,

God would often help humans to imagine his power by using examples and pictures, mental pictures so I don't know what your guys are talking about unless you are referring to that.

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

And as for Sodom and Gomorrah,
well if there is at least one good person will you save the city, and I think it went from

Correct. Which is asinine. These were two major cities. Thriving with people. The notion that all the babies and young children and teens [there would have been lots] were wholly evil and deserving of a very gruesome death is beyond ridiculous.

So God was forced to get rid of that threat.

So this god can create an entire Universe but he can't carry out a death sentence on the bad people specifically?

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

The imagery given in exodus 19 sure sounds like a spacecraft to me...

But perhaps its just me

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: vincentdaniel7
So because there were 'evil' people in those two major cities, it was morally acceptable to rain brimstone fireballs down on babies and pregnant mothers?

Sorry friend but you're going to have one hell of a time convincing me of that.

Not too mention you said earlier in ALL CAPS how powerful he is. Surely he could have just snapped his proverbial fingers and *poof* the bad people specifically are removed from Earth.

he look into their heart and he saw violence 24/7 in their hearts he said day and night they think of violence?

Infants and toddlers had violence in their hearts and in their thoughts 24/7??......

Like I explained earlier today God has the ability with his unlimited genius to peer into not only the hearts of men but of their conditions that will never change looking at their particular nations ideas their practices their views on life there ignoring of their Creator and not given a,
[[RAT'S HINDQUARTERS]]..

So like I said before YOU HAVE A MAMA POISONOUS SNAKE YOU HAVE A PAPA POISONOUS SNAKE AND THEY GIVE BIRTH TO,,,, (in God's eyes) AFTER viewing the situation,, they give birth to to A BABY POISONOUS SNAKE

if he already has figured out without a shadow of a doubt because at this particular time he needed to view the future WITCH HE DOES NOT DO ALL THE TIME
if he did he would have wiped out Adam and Eve and Satan right away and not even giving us a chance and would have started all over that is what I am saying not what you just interpreted of what I was saying.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

And as for Sodom and Gomorrah,
well if there is at least one good person will you save the city, and I think it went from

Correct. Which is asinine. These were two major cities. Thriving with people. The notion that all the babies and young children and teens [there would have been lots] were wholly evil and deserving of a very gruesome death is beyond ridiculous.

So God was forced to get rid of that threat.

So this god can create an entire Universe but he can't carry out a death sentence on the bad people specifically?

Yes he can carry out a surgical strike if there is anyone to be saved like he actually did he surgically strike Sodom and Gomorrah and saved lots family so yes he can carry out a death sentence and still protect the innocent he does that all the time in the Old Testament

a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Yet said god could not protect Lots wife from being turned into a "pillar of salt"?

just because she looked back...

sounds a little petty don't you think?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

The imagery given in exodus 19 sure sounds like a spacecraft to me...

But perhaps its just me

Try to figure out what that so called spaceship of God's, teaches you about God's power

FOR EXAMPLE;

Remember the spacecraft that has,, like eyeballs all over the wheels? what that tells you, that God can swiftly move his whole organization, no matter how good of a military force they are facing either literally or figuratively that threatens their very existence.

It represents part of the power to save his people from destruction.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

Yet said god could not protect Lots wife from being turned into a "pillar of salt"?

just because she looked back...

sounds a little petty don't you think?

Again God gave her a chance but she loved the wicked city and he saw that in her.

so if Lot's wife was spared even though she didn't not reject the cities so called values when Lots family continue to have the label of representing the only true God this would have a domino effect and become a cancer all over again and soon after there would be a, lLot's, family version of Sodom and Gomorrah.

And again before he terminates anyone he peers deeply into their hearts and find out if they truly have a repentive spirit,

Or if they just fell victim to perfection and it is a self control issue which God can work with.

clearly he did not find that potential anymore in Lots wife so now he can also see that because in the future she would never change she has turned herself into a dangerous wolf who will Later become a threat.

So again in the interest of saving his future children and current children she had to be eliminated.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: vincentdaniel7

And as for Sodom and Gomorrah,
well if there is at least one good person will you save the city, and I think it went from

Correct. Which is asinine. These were two major cities. Thriving with people. The notion that all the babies and young children and teens [there would have been lots] were wholly evil and deserving of a very gruesome death is beyond ridiculous.

So God was forced to get rid of that threat.

So this god can create an entire Universe but he can't carry out a death sentence on the bad people specifically?

Based on what I know about God's mercy from my research and his love for not even wanting to see the wicked die,
AND I HAVE A VERY DETAILED POST REGARDING THAT.

I'm not going to post that one again.

Anyway he not only not likes to see even the wicked parish, but he does not even believe in the,, MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN VIEW,,,

OF HELL !

HE said that the idea never came up into his heart and I can find that scripture if you actually cared to read it but I'm not sure if you would.

So based on my research I can easily agree and realize that when someone dies by God's hands, when JEHOVAH actually does it,,,
YOUR LIGHTS JUST GO OUT, no pain just lights out.

I HAVE DONE THE SAME DUE DILIGENCE OF RESEARCH OF WHEN MAN EXECUTE!!!! MAN,

AND, ,,,

OHHHHHH. THE HORROR I FOUND !!!