Why is Jesus a Conservative?

a reply to: grandmakdw

All Christians follow the words of Christ, so if you want to respond to ALL Christians and give your message to ALL Christians, and prove to ALL Christians how misogynistic, homophobic and gay hating Jesus teaches them to be, then Find the words of Christ himself saying misogynistic, homophobic, gay hating things. If you don't know how to find them, there are bible with red letters (the red letters are the words of Christ). Or check online for the actual words that Christ said. These words only exist in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and a few in the early part of Acts. That is the ONLY way you can prove your contention. As a Christian who has spent many years in the military I have been close to all "brands" of Christians and can point you to the only biblical words that ALL Christians agree upon.

How can you be sure that you have read what Christ Jesus said by the words of another person? You do not have the original letters (autographs) of any of the authors to prove your point and even if you did have the autographs you would still be reading what one person said of another person. Simply because many people agree upon a certain matter does not make that matter the truth. All of this is nothing but conjecture and faith.

I thought he was along the lines of a communist. No masters or kings, yet he hailed as the King of Kings.

What a twist.

originally posted by: Specimen
I thought he was along the lines of a communist. No masters or kings, yet he hailed as the King of Kings.

What a twist.

You are overlaying a 20th century Communism (1920's) concept upon a Zero AD (non start for 300 years) fledging belief system eventually called Christianity.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I'm glad you agree that Jesus never taught his followers to be any of the awful things that many on ATS attribute to Christians and Christianity.

I conceded he personally didn't address them. But I do attribute those things to Christians and Christianity. Because unlike you, the overwhelming majority of Christians take the bible as a whole.

HE is the one we follow, and HE is our example.

Then you might want to share that with about 2 billion other Christians. They don't seem to be getting it. They have this crazy idea that they should follow the epistles too, as if they are divinely inspired.

I find it excruciating evil when people say all Christians are (name the twisted meme of the day),because they are accusing many many innocent people and causing others to hate them.

I think that one happens in both directions.

There are some here who truly hate me for standing up for the many many Christians who are good and generous and loving and are maligned daily on ATS. It is a quest of mine.

Hate you? Unlikely. They may not like what you stand for, but most of the debating here just gets passionate. That's what ATS allows us to do. Spit it all out and work through it. We learn from such debates.

I know some will make fun of me and taunt me and disparage me and call me mean, etc., I am getting quite used to that.

Whatever side of this debate one is on, that is going to be the case.

But I will continue to stand up for Jesus, the real Jesus, the one whose words that those who hate him refuse to read and only fall for the twisted words of others with bigoted preconceptions.

You mean your perception of the "real" Jesus.

I do however get quite angry when zealots in these groups try and convert me to their way of thinking, especially when they do it by saying the worst things possible about those I love and care deeply about, my fellow Christians

Then shouldn't you love, and care deeply about all people, and not just Christians? Matthew 5 -
" 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

P.S. My challenge to you was to show me where the things you attribute to Christ and his followers can be found in red. I believe you said it could be found in black, white and red.

No. Your challenge to me was to show you those things AFTER you stripped the bible of 85%-90% of its content. That is not a challenge, it is a tactic to keep you from having to own up to what the rest of the bible has to say about those things. And most Christians live by that other 85%, just as much as they do by Jesus own words. Nevertheless, I'll be watching, and I will have this discussion at my fingertips, ready to quote from.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

It seems to be a theme here to attack Christians, conservative Christians.

Who cares who Jesus would have voted for?

There has been a theme among Christians to "attack" anyone who is not, for 2000 years.

Sincere question: What is a conservative Christian, and is it biblical?

You are too gracious in only including Christians; there are many others that practiced the same fatal 'disinterest' in others dogmatic belief systems.

That is true, but the poster was specifically addressing Christianity. So I responded in kind.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

It seems to be a theme here to attack Christians, conservative Christians.

Who cares who Jesus would have voted for?

There has been a theme among Christians to "attack" anyone who is not, for 2000 years.

Sincere question: What is a conservative Christian, and is it biblical?

You are too gracious in only including Christians; there are many others that practiced the same fatal 'disinterest' in others dogmatic belief systems.

That is true, but the poster was specifically addressing Christianity. So I responded in kind.

OP says Jesus is a conservative (when 33 AD?) what say you as it's interpretation of this NOW 20th century identity having an influence 2000 years later; do you think this Jesus person (an Essene) was a conservative or more a *reformer* of an even MORE conservative tradition: ie: the Pharisee/Sadducces in HIS more appropriate time period (Roman Rule)?

a reply to: Klassified

I think you are entirely wrong about your 85% figure
implying most Christians are (whatever ugly thing).
That is the kind of misconception I am fighting.
Do you have any study or proof to back up this
assertion? Do you have any proof at all except
you think it is true?

On ATS very few have the courage to stand up to
people who want to convert all Christians to
atheism/agnosticism/and anti-theism
by calling Christians the worst things they can
think of.

Again, that is my quest.

I have also stated repeatedly on ATS that
I am the world's worst Christian according
to the anti-theists;

because gasp, I don't hate gays or transsexuals
and I don't care if anyone wants a 5 way marriage,
not my business, their choice;
(and yes it is the atheists and anti-theists who
hate me for it because I shatter their preconceptions
who they think I must be because I am a Christian)

because they think Christians should roll over
and play dead when insulted and maligned,
but they don't know Jesus do they, who
got out a whip and turned over tables of
people who were desecrating God and his house;

because I will actually fight against the bigotry,
prejudice and malignment of Christians that appear
daily on ATS, and the people who claim they are tolerant
while doing it ,
when they think a good Christian
should apologize and crawl under a rug.

Well, as the worlds worst Christian I reserve the right
to fight the bigotry, fight the intolerance, fight the
ugliness that the "tolerant" throw at Christians.

No one can say it doesn't happen,
just look at the OP, it is a shining example of extreme
bigotry, prejudice and ignorance I have seen repeatedly
on ATS, directed at Christians.

Look at all the defenders of the OP,
who by attacking someone who is standing up and saying to the OP,
you are an intolerant bigot, they themselves are agreeing with
the intolerant bigotry.

I love my fellow Christians, yes, and I am not ashamed of
it, not at all. Much as many if not most on ATS have tried
to convince me I should be ashamed, using quite ugly terms and
descriptions to describe my fellow Christians and myself.

Do I love others, of course. But remember, my quest,
my mission on ATS is to fight the intolerance, bigotry and prejudice
spewed at my fellow Christians on a more than daily
basis.

If your quest is to destroy Christianity, ok, that is your quest.

It is the openly stated quest of many on ATS to destroy
all religions (even though they deny that has to do with
religious people, which is a massive form of denial).

But I have just as much right to fight for the right of
Christians not to be lumped together and have
mud slung at them daily
in an attempt to convert them to atheism/anti-theism

or in an attempt to make Christians cower like dogs at the
feet of the arrogant and quite self-righteous slingers
of the mud.


And trust me I could name, if it were T&C allowed
a handful on ATS who absolutely hate me with a
passion that is irrational. But they now
make me laugh when they reply to me because
their responses are so absolutely predictable.
If I said it was a nice day, they'd call me blind
and argue that I couldn't see the storm coming.
If I say, got to run and do (whatever), they'd tell
me how their life was so awful and that I am
cruel to say I can go do (whatever). Yes, the hatred
is that bad and that blatant. Because someone,
somewhere hurt them in the name of Christianity
and they can not separate the person who did
the awful thing from the rest of all the Christians
in the world. However, I can deal with that,
I actually laughed out loud at one of their
very predictable irrational responses today, it
struck me as so predictable as to be funny to me.
Simply proves I am the worlds worst Christian, doesn't it?

So this miserable wretch of a Christian will keep on
fighting all posts like the OP
everyone who thinks like the OP
everyone who wants to destroy religion (and by
extension all religious people, even though they deny it)
all bigotry,prejudice and intolerance directed toward Christians.

Someone has to have the guts to do it,
so it takes a terrible Christian to stand
up and keep fighting the intolerant and
those who hate all religious people
and all Christians in general.
With the OP on this thread as an example
you can not deny that it
does not exist on ATS.

"Jesus would still be alive today if he had a gun"
quote by Homer Simpson or Ben Carson or maybe Donald Trump (I forgot which cartoon character said that).

a reply to: grandmakdw

I think you are entirely wrong about your 85% figure implying most Christians are (whatever ugly thing). That is the kind of misconception I am fighting. Do you have any study or proof to back up this assertion? Do you have any proof at all except you think it is true?

Read the thread I posted the link to.

On ATS very few have the courage to stand up to people who want to convert all Christians to atheism/agnosticism/and anti-theism by calling Christians the worst things they can think of.

I have seen some very hateful and bigoted posts from Christians and Non Christians. But by far, they are a minority of posts. Unless one is stuck in a persecution complex, or a victim mentality. Then, any post is seen as an attack.

I have also stated repeatedly on ATS that I am the world's worst Christian according to the anti-theists

From what I've read tonight, you sound fairly liberal. At least, that's the impression I'm getting. Time will tell.

Well, as the worlds worst Christian I reserve the right to fight the bigotry, fight the intolerance, fight the ugliness that the "tolerant" throw at Christians.

And the "tolerant" reserve the right to respond to Christian bigotry, intolerance, and ugliness.

No one can say it doesn't happen, just look at the OP, it is a shining example of extreme bigotry, prejudice and ignorance I have seen repeatedly on ATS, directed at Christians.

And of course, you've never seen that kind of OP by any Christians.

Look at all the defenders of the OP, who by attacking someone who is standing up and saying to the OP, you are an intolerant bigot, they themselves are agreeing with the intolerant bigotry.

Other than the first line, you have insinuated that you and the OP have at least some common ground. He says basically the same thing as you. Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality, gay marriage, slavery, or the misogyny of his day, so he must have been cool with it all.

If your quest is to destroy Christianity, ok, that is your quest.

I have no need or desire to do any such thing. Religious freedom is guaranteed by our laws, which I agree with. However, religious freedom and religious bigotry are two different things.

It is the openly stated quest of many on ATS to destroy all religions (even though they deny that has to do with religious people, which is a massive form of denial). But I have just as much right to fight for the right of Christians not to be lumped together and have mud slung at them daily in an attempt to convert them to atheism/anti-theism or in an attempt to make Christians cower like dogs at the feet of the arrogant and quite self-righteous slingers of the mud.

I think you are looking at the debate with one eye closed. You are in denial that Christians have and are just as guilty of the same things you accuse non-Christians of.

So this miserable wretch of a Christian will keep on fighting all posts like the OP.

You may not like the tone of the OP, but you have insinuated that you at least partially agree with the OP, as I stated above. If that's not true, maybe you need to clarify the impression you gave me. Remember, Jesus didn't address it, so the rest of the bible is in error. Since his words(or lack of) trump all the rest of scripture. The OP is just pointing out the same thing you have. Maybe just not as nicely.

originally posted by: rupertg

"Jesus would still be alive today if he had a gun"
quote by Homer Simpson or Ben Carson or maybe Donald Trump (I forgot which cartoon character said that).

Miss quoted; it was Gandhi at the moment of his own murder thought two things, I am now dead, I am now alive.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

It seems to be a theme here to attack Christians, conservative Christians.

Who cares who Jesus would have voted for?

There has been a theme among Christians to "attack" anyone who is not, for 2000 years.

Sincere question: What is a conservative Christian, and is it biblical?

You are too gracious in only including Christians; there are many others that practiced the same fatal 'disinterest' in others dogmatic belief systems.

That is true, but the poster was specifically addressing Christianity. So I responded in kind.

OP says Jesus is a conservative (when 33 AD?) what say you as it's interpretation of this NOW 20th century identity having an influence 2000 years later; do you think this Jesus person (an Essene) was a conservative or more a *reformer* of an even MORE conservative tradition: ie: the Pharisee/Sadducces in HIS more appropriate time period (Roman Rule)?

I think the point the OP was trying to make was that many Christians are conservative, and the biblical Jesus does not appear to have been conservative. In fact, in at least some ways, he might have been described as progressive. At least, that's the impression I got from the OP.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

it was Gandhi at the moment of his own murder thought two things, I am now dead, I am now alive.

naw, Gandhi said.

Holy Cow

originally posted by: Klassified
originally posted by: [post=19914361]vethumanbeing:

vhb: OP says Jesus is a conservative (when 33 AD?) what say you as it's interpretation of this NOW 20th century identity having an influence 2000 years later; do you think this Jesus person (an Essene) was a conservative or more a *reformer* of an even MORE conservative tradition: ie: the Pharisee/Sadducces in HIS more appropriate time period (Roman Rule)?

Klassified: think the point the OP was trying to make was that many Christians are conservative, and the biblical Jesus does not appear to have been conservative. In fact, in at least some ways, he might have been described as progressive. At least, that's the impression I got from the OP.

That was MY point, in Jesus's timeframe; absolutely was perceived as a progressive instigator. Not the OP's; not conservative at all; his dangerous? ideology within a conservative *politically charged* environment resulted in his crucifixion.

Holy crap...

What a mess of a thread...

Entertaining though to say the least

originally posted by: Akragon
Holy crap...

What a mess of a thread...

Entertaining though to say the least

Your luck is going to run out eventually Akragon; will have accidently contributed and by doing so take all blame for the bad edits.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Akragon
Holy crap...

What a mess of a thread...

Entertaining though to say the least

Your luck is going to run out eventually Akragon; will have accidently contributed and by doing so take all blame.

Lol... Im holding my tongue thus far...

And luck doesn't exist... Especially if one knows his material

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Akragon
Holy crap...

What a mess of a thread...

Entertaining though to say the least

Your luck is going to run out eventually Akragon; will have accidently contributed and by doing so take all blame.

Lol... Im holding my tongue thus far...

And luck doesn't exist... Especially if one knows his material

I do not have your restraint, I try but if *the humor factor* raises its head in a thread will/is/always my Achilles heel; I have to respond. I become a living cartoon perspective in answer to those preposterous suppositions.

Bill Maher just did a good bit on this a couple weeks ago. I've been saying it for a while. You can have Jesus or Ayn Rand, but you can't have both.

m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: Reflection
Bill Maher just did a good bit on this a couple weeks ago. I've been saying it for a while. You can have Jesus or Ayn Rand, but you can't have both.

m.youtube.com...

I don't see Jesus as an "Objectivist'. He was more of a cunning 'naïve sort' that outsmarted his demi-god talkers. I would like to know more as why you think Ayn Rand's philosophy is/would be a better or lessor option? You realize both are belief systems, (totally different) one is of a faith based belief in a creator; the other is just a free market (supposed free will) conduction of business? I realize this is a Bill Maher abstract, how does it make sense? (don't tell me to watch the vid) as you should be able to deconstruct it using your own words. Why can't you have both; they are two separate ideas to begin with; are they supposed to compete and if so how and why?

a reply to: Klassified

I consider conservative to be small government, lower taxes, practicality over feelings, keeping with the values upon which our country was founded--and no, as I said previously I do not think that Jesus has anything to do with politics. I think that Jesus would disagree with all politics. Which is also why I dislike politics. I understand that they are a necessary evil--but I do not like their divisive nature and I view politics as a farce. Both the left and right wing are still part of the same bird.

So no, there is nothing biblical about a conservative Christian. Just as there's nothing biblical about politics at all.

I think you are correct in saying that sin is a Christian thing--but then do you believe in good? What about evil? Hasn't someone ever hurt you? Was that a good thing or a bad thing? A bad thing, right? Anyway, I was talking to the person who was a Christian, apparently, who was slamming gays--and so I spoke of sin because I knew they'd understand.

So please don't take that out of context--I have family members and friends who are gay. And I love and support them fully. I could have probably said it better but, oh well

But yeah, no problem--I definitely don't think that conservatives are in line with biblical teachings whatsoever. Neither are liberals. I hope that answers your question

And as for the Bible, the new testament is anything but bigoted and misogynistic and judgmental. Jesus was a cool dude--the coolest. And I think that everything Jesus said was spot-on.