911myths.com : WHY FAKING >73° BANK-ANGLES for a NoC FLYING PLANE.?

originally posted by: LaBTop
YOUR FBI STILL has the 85+ Pentagon area videos

Wrong again, the video's were all released.

A reply to: hellobruce

We already know for a LONG time that literally, there were no funds missing, since when the Congress and the House authorize funds for shady operations, then of course they were there in the first place, and have been spend.
How much of that ended up in pockets where it did not belong is forever obstructed by the Pentagon attack.

Nobody seems/ed to understand and wants/ed to expressly say, or write, that all these shady funds were essentially used in HUGE amounts for operational endeavors, where the simple everyday US citizen needed to have no knowledge of.

There is still hundreds of billions (nearly 1 trillion) unaccounted for, of the total sums allocated for the military and combined operations with the CIA and many other less known agencies over at least the two decades before 9/11.
Essentially after the huge punch on the nose the US military received in Vietnam, hawk eyed senators plus the full military brass were determined to never let such a shameful defeat, based on heaps of missing or bad Intel, happen again.

There was no paperwork for these HUGE black operation funds the auditors were essentially after, there were mostly completely non exchangeable computer files on totally different operating systems, and non comparable software programs to read them (Rumsfeld and aids said the day/s/months) before 9/11.
Ask yourself if you think this was intently done so...Would you do so, while risking your career and income, pension and family respect? The deeper buried, the better...

The digital backups for these files were stocked in WTC 7. And we all know what happened there.
Seriously, does any of you readers, expect these black-op planners to have kept and keep PAPER files about their dirty works.?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: LaBTop
YOUR FBI STILL has the 85+ Pentagon area videos

Wrong again, the video's were all released.

Well, show them to us, links to them and all.
Where's the website with all the 85 videos miss MacAllister wrote about in her letter accompanying the CITGO video.?
They FOIA-released the 2 Pentagon security boot, 1 CITGO and if I'm not wrong, 1 Sheraton video, afaik.
Because that were the only ones we could see the impact in, they said. We never got a chance to see if we could find something like the ceiling flash in the other 81 videos. Of which a lot were not at all from the Pentagon area, said miss MacAllister from the FBI, we have to believe her on her word....and excuse me, but I have damn little faith anymore in your government's persons in charge.

If you have newer, better info, I'm all ears.

a reply to: LaBTop

Well, show them to us, links to them and all.

If I recall correctly the videos were not owned by the FBI so public release was at the discretion of the owners.
Even if all were released most showed nothing so I can see them disappearing from the web after 15 years.

Besides video of planes hitting buildings hasn't stopped conspiracy theories in NYC.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Salander
records being audited for the missing funds about which Rumsfeld was deposed the day before.

Except for the fact that no funds were missing, and the paperwork was not in that area....

Right, no funds missing and Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman, LOL.

a reply to: LaBTop

Regarding the fly-by and the eye witness accounts brought by CIT, I generally agree with you, but consider that the FDR for 77 was fabricated and bogus, as reported by Dennis Cimino. To me, that supports the idea that the plane seen by the gas station witnesses was NOT flight 77. It had to have been some other airplane.

A reply to: Salander

Two such huge planes in the same compact airspace would have been noticed by EVERYONE on that scene.

I think it probably -was- Flight 77, remotely taken over in the very last seconds, and then flown into that west wall, instead of over it...

I spend LOTS of posts on the falsified-FDR remarks of Dennis Cimino, and combined with all the evidence I myself dug up, as offered above and coming below, that FDR must at least have been tampered with for the last 20 seconds of flight time, which isn't that difficult at all, lots of people can write a compact software package that can do that job in milliseconds.
Most of the time, spend on molding such an algorithm filled piece of work together, will go in defining all the flight parameters, connected to the Pentagon area-wide flight envelope during those last 20 seconds.

A logical diabolical 9/11 planner will have opted for such a very short risks-lasting scenario, for sure.
The Flight 77 pilots (or hijackers) could have been told and still thought they were part of one of the, at least six military war games effective that day, up till those last sad 6 seconds. I still consider that as the most logical explanation.

What a coincidence, all those military war games on that peculiar day?
Are you daft (smile), such coincidences do not exist, on a logical basis. Believing in the tooth fairy has a better chance of being true.

Btw, Dennis also found out the hard way what kind of a egocentric character the owner of Pilots for 911 Truth website possesses.
That owner has done more damage to the 9/11 historical truth finding, than anybody else.
Thus I expect him to be a plant, or bought.

Such a shame for all those good meaning (former or present) pilots and other aeronautical trained members there from the time of the start up of that site. Not many posting there anymore, I once read here.

www.scientificmethod911.org...

Main Response
David Cole writes: “… I also must point out that you choose to leave out certain inconvenient testimony. I'm talking about Brooks, LaGasse and Boger. Why can't you mention that all three were certain the plane they saw was North of the CITGO?”
The short answer to this question is: Legge and Chandler, in their paper, did mention that these three witnesses were North of Citgo (NOC) witnesses. All three witnesses saw a large plane impact the Pentagon. Hard evidence fully supports the South of Citgo path, and there is no corroborating physical evidence for a NOC path. Thus these three witnesses are mistaken about a NOC path.

I disagree :
The ceiling flash from a sun reflection on a low, passing plane North of the CITGO northern canopy , which corroborates definitely with the 1 sec later impact moment, and the reactions of all the people in the pay counter space, they all start running to the eastern open door directly after the ceiling flash. Lagasse also reacts at the pump directly after the ceiling flash.

Apart from a few other witnesses cited by CIT (Citizen Investigation Team), who viewed the plane from the Arlington cemetery and were in a poor position to judge where the plane flew with respect to the Citgo station, 1. there is not a shred of hard, physical or other supporting evidence for the NOC path. In addition, these three witnesses are a very small minority of the total number of eyewitnesses to the plane’s path and impact, 2. many of whom saw the plane clip the light poles that, with the entry hole, define the plane’s path.

1. I disagree :
I found 12 more eyewitnesses, from which an important few explicitly declared already on 9/11 that they witnessed the plane flying extremely low OVER their heads, while they stood in a traffic jam in front of the square, concrete Heli landing pad, which is situated a few meters only to the left (north) of the plane's nose cone's impact point on the Pentagon's west wall, at column nr. 14.

2. I disagree :
I like to see the real, reliable witnesses who said on the day of 9/11 that they saw those lamp poles clipped by a passing plane.
Because there aren't many who said so, THAT day. Not even a handful.
I even dare to say not one, except Lagasse, who meant a transformer wires pole-top on the Pike, where it turns in front of the north side of the CITGO gas station.

And those who will have said so that day, off the record, you have to remember their name, for the upcoming new 9/11 investigation, ask them then why they said that.
-If- they said that at all, and not the news reporter who wanted to tune up his story, or got told to do so by the embedded army editors in the main news-editing rooms.
Lots of them in the days and months after 9/11 suddenly "remembered" they saw them poles clipped, since they got told relentlessly by the Networks, what exactly to remember...

--more--

The physical evidence, as seen in the damage trail (downed light posts, damaged low concrete wall and generator, interior damage by way of bent and missing columns, the location of the C ring exit hole, and the debris in the AE driveway), points unequivocally to a South path that makes a 52 degree angle with the impacted wall of the Pentagon. In addition, three sets of radar data and the FDR (Flight Data Recorder) data confirm the South path.
3. No deviation around the North side of the Citgo station is possible, since this would require a very obvious steeply-banked aircraft and all witnesses described the flight as level or made no comment about the angle of bank [2]. An approach over the Navy Annex and North of the Citgo station, followed by impact, 4. is completely ruled out by the exterior and interior damage trails. No reliable witness reported seeing the plane fly over the Pentagon, and 5. the notion that the observed damage might have been staged, unnoticed by scores of witnesses, is beyond credulity [3] [4].

3. I disagree :
ONLY required when the EXCESSIVE SPEEDS are used by the authors in their bank angle calculations.
However, when they start to understand that a whole row of witnesses ALL explained in video taped remarks, that they ALL saw a 30 degrees bank angled plane flying North of the CITGO gas station, they will perhaps also start to adhere to the sheer impossibility for a B-757 in a 30 degree bank angle at that turn radius, to fly any faster than closely around 320 M/hr, just a few tenth of M/hr faster than its official stall speed. (Still faster than a Formula I racing car's top speed)

4. I disagree :
The same is true if I turn their argument around on them, that the exterior and interior damage trails "evidence" is completely ruled out :

By the presence of too many 9/11 eyewitnesses who all pertinently reported a 30 degree bank angle that forces and indicates for a B-757 an airspeed of about 320 M/hr in that specific turn radius (see for that, my thread's opening posts).
Combined with the hard evidence of the CITGO-ceiling flash, and combined with the 1 second later impact, clearly registered by all customers in the CITGO cashier area, on video.
Additionally combined with the 6 witnesses on Washington Boulevard who declared on 9/11 already that they saw the plane passing right on top of them while they were stuck in a traffic jam, standing right in front of the Heli landing pad.
Which remarks directly rule out the official South of CITGO straight flight path, and enforces a bend NoC path.
Which remarks of course makes an evenly hard case to mistrust and strongly doubt the official South of CITGO flight path explanation, as so eloquently "evidenced" by their officially touted and endlessly shown damage trail.

-more-

The damage trail :
1. downed light posts,
2. damaged low concrete wall and generator,
3. interior damage by way of bent and missing columns,
4. the location of the C ring exit hole, and
5. the debris in the AE driveway)

1. Downed between 02:00 and 3:30 a.m. on 9/11/2001 and replaced by pre-cut examples.
See my photos of yellow flatbed trailers used by VDOT (Virginia Department Of Traffic) to transport these poles, parked near the overpass bridge, and behind the dirt mount on the west side of Route 24, a.k.a. Washington Boulevard, opposite of the Heli landing pad area.
2. Can easily be pre-cut at the same time, or somewhat earlier.
3. Bent and missing columns can be caused by pre-planted, 180 degrees spherical high explosives.
4. That C-Ring hole was an entry hole, no doubt at all.
To get as fast as could be done, to the ONI mainframes to wreck all evidence of non-granted black ops? After that, rescue victims?
5. The few plane remains (a wheel rim) thrown in there after being transported from the spot where that plane really came to a standstill (the E-Ring inner wall space, that whole E-Ring area collapsed 20 minutes later, they used the same 20 min. clearance time to fix that too).
Plane remains planted during the 20 minutes clearance time from the impact scene by all first responders, because of an expected third plane, nearing Washington.
Everybody was forced to leave the scene a few minutes before 10:00 a.m., they all hid under the overpass-bridge, and all of them returned between 20 and 30 minutes later. Time enough to place thermite cutter charges to topple the E-Ring area where the plane impacted at an angle of about 75 to 85 degrees and stopped penetrating the building at the back of that E-Ring area.
No worry about thermite traces, it happened on --first choice for probable perpetrators-- their own secure soil.
After the collapse of that area, the whole plane remnants and silent thermite/thermate charge remnants were safely buried under that rubble pile for prying eyes.

See also the victim placements in the ONI offices, all of them heaped up in front of obviously closed doors....which should be fail safe, electrically and mechanically safeguarded, if all was well that day...which it clearly wasn't.

5. I disagree :
To the contrary : The observed damage might have been EASILY staged.

Staging of the poles : during early, still dark, morning : EASY.
Staging of damage in sidewall of low concrete wall, and generator trailer roof dent : EASY.
Planting of spherical explosives during the renovation, the impression is thus planted on 9/11 for a straight plane debris trail : EASY.
C-Ring hole : EASY staging. Use a well known Wall Breaching Unit to form a circular impression and hole, in and on the outer C-Ring bricks.
Plane-debris remains in AE Driveway behind the C-Ring brick walls : EASY.

Do realize that two airplanes of the same size, penetrated steel armored building sides of two other buildings in New York, hit on the same day, to about the same depth as Flight 77 ended at, in the E-Ring of the Pentagon. The much longer fake damage path must have been staged.
It must be, when you believe all those remarks from so many eyewitnesses, given to reporters on the day of 9/11, which I hinted at above.
And those planes also hit head on on huge concrete floor plates, just as Flight 77 did hit head on on the concrete floor between the first and second floor space.

Then do realize too, that the Pentagon's west wall part that Flight 77 hit, was also lately reinforced with thick steel beams the size of the Twin Tower sides, intertwined around the windows and forming a formidable obstruction for terrorist attacks, while extra KEVLAR netting were also embedded between the new, triple strong re-barred concrete columns and brickwork, of exactly that E-Ring wall.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: MrBig2430
If your intention is to crash a plane into the Pentagon, then why fake evidence?

Because planes have serial numbers, tracking abilities, pilots blah blah blah.
you think its easy to just paint a plane in the right colors and fly it in there? what about military and civilian tracking ? what if it missed and smashed somewhere else then all the evidence was there for people to see

just because you pretend not to be able to be creative.. doesn't mean others wont.

I dont know what happened at the Pentagon, Shanskville or WTC. but I know what we've been told is a total load of crap!

None of that lays out the advantage of faking physical evidence vs just flying a plane into the Pentagon.

Remember, I'm asking the OP here. For some reason, he doesn't have an answer, so if you choose to answer for him, it would be great if you took his stance. Cuz he believes it was 77, but that "they" faked physical evidence - fdr, radar, etc.

To everyone rational, it makes no sense.

originally posted by: LaBTop

Then do realize too, that the Pentagon's west wall part that Flight 77 hit, was also lately reinforced with thick steel beams the size of the Twin Tower sides, intertwined around the windows

LMAO.

Ummmmm. No.

Prove your no.
I can prove my remarks.

originally posted by: LaBTop
I can prove my remarks.

So prove these....

Downed between 02:00 and 3:30 a.m. on 9/11/2001 and replaced by pre-cut examples..... There is still hundreds of billions (nearly 1 trillion) unaccounted for,.... but consider that the FDR for 77 was fabricated and bogus.... Flight 77, remotely taken over in the very last seconds, .... that FDR must at least have been tampered with for the last 20 seconds of flight time.... Bent and missing columns can be caused by pre-planted, 180 degrees spherical high explosives..... That C-Ring hole was an entry hole.... The few plane remains (a wheel rim) thrown in there ..... Plane remains planted during the 20 minutes ...... Everybody was forced to leave the scene a few minutes before 10:00 a.m., they all hid under the overpass-bridge, and all of them returned between 20 and 30 minutes later. Time enough to place thermite cutter charges ......

originally posted by: LaBTop
Where's the website with all the 85 videos miss MacAllister wrote about in her letter accompanying the CITGO video.?

www.911myths.com...

A list of all the videotapes is available, which shows many of these videotapes do not have footage of the Pentagon at all. Instead, many have footage of the WTC, some are security video tapes taken from a Kinko's in Florida, etc. Some that show the Pentagon were taken days after the attacks, and some in the evening of 9/11/2001. The security camera footage taken from around the Pentagon included the Citgo, the Doubletree, and the Pentagon parking lot. There was also video from cameras at Reagan National Airport parking garage. Both video files show smoke in the distance coming from direction of Pentagon. Another video came from a DEA HQ security camera atop 700 Army Navy Drive, Arlington, VA. The camera was repositioned after attack to show post-crash footage of Pentagon. Footage taken after the attack included home video filmed by a tourist traveling past Pentagon and then by AP photographer who borrowed the camera, and video taken by a NBC4 Washington reporter...

List of video's at
web.archive.org...://www.flight77.info/85videos.html

A reply to: hellobruce

As usual you are too eager to post, next time you could do some reading of the actual Web-archived link first.

I'll try and make it easier to be able to click those damn WebArchive links, their links with two http:// included, show not up in ATS formatting rules ( url= /url , both in brackets and text in between):

httpweb.archive.org/web/20080208102217/httpwww.flight77.info/85videos.html
Copy the above line in your browsers address bar, change the two http both to : http://, so add the :// part, at both positions.

ATS formatting does make a mess from WebArchive links, see :
www.flight77.info..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Flight 77 TEXT.


It's only Info TYPED OUT by FBI Special Agent, Jacqueline Maguire for 85 videos. No actual videos can be viewed than the 4 ones FOIA freed already and for years online already.

That is a written LIST, there are NO links to the actual remaining 81 videos, you can't view them, only read descriptions typed out by her.!

It is important to let others than the FBI et al. look at those videos.

I and others with me discovered for example the ceiling flash, and much more in the CITGO security video than they expected, it was very important as corroboration with the Sergeants Lagasse and Brooks Library of Congress and their CIT reports. Jeff Hill from the PumpitOut forum telephoned them too? I don't recall that.
That video also showed the crystal clear reactions of all the people in and around the gas station, reacting on the flash, fly-by and on the subsequent impact. Which could thus be timed to the later witness reports, f.ex. we clearly see Lagasse's position while filling up his gas tank, also very important to note.

The videos taken from the Pentagon area after the 9/11 attacks were mentioned in the Maguire declaration, where FBI Special Agent, Jacqueline Maguire responded (see below) to a request from Scott Bingham.

In Summary:
She determined that the FBI had 85 videotapes that might be relevant. Of those, 56 ""of these videotapes did not show either the Pentagon building, the Pentagon crash site, or the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon on September 11.""
Of the 29 remaining videotapes, 16 ""did not show the Pentagon crash site and did not show the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon.""
Of the 13 remaining tapes which showed the Pentagon crash site, 12 ""only showed after the impact of Flight 77."
The videotape taken from the Citgo gas station did not show the impact.
No videotapes were located from the Sheraton Hotel, though she located a videotape from the Doubletree Hotel.

I wrote before that it was the the Sheraton Hotel security camera footage.
It was however the Doubletree Hotel security video that was FOIA freed.
She wrote that she could not find footage of the Sheraton Hotel, which is strange, since I have a picture of one of their cameras there, be it in a somewhat downward aimed position, but in sight of the flight path line. We may assume there were more cameras on that facade or along the roof rim :




I am further more, especially interested in the Pentagon parking lot videos she wrote about.
There was also video, she wrote, from cameras at Reagan National Airport parking garage.
Both video files show smoke in the distance coming from direction of Pentagon, she WRITES without giving us the possibility to VIEW it,in all detail.
Another video we can't VIEW came from a DEA HQ security camera atop 700 Army Navy Drive, Arlington, VA. The camera was repositioned after attack to show post-crash footage of Pentagon.
It's all just written up DESCRIPTIONS by her, no links to any more videos than the 4 known FOIA freed ones :
The CITGO video, the 2 Pentagon gate security-boot videos and the Doubletree Hotel video.
Those are the only 4 we ever could VIEW ourselves, time to release those 81 others.!

As said already, we do NOT trust official sources regarding the 9/11 attacks. PERIOD.
And if I remember right, the FBI has now "lost track" of those 81 videos.

I admit I remembered her full name not correct, it was not MacAllister, but Maguire. The Ma-part was a good start, however. While the C sounds like a bit like the G in guire, somewhat like a K. So I was already on the right track, but failed to get the rest of her name right, hellobruce. (grin)

EDIT : Bruce, that www.911myths.com... website is not the "all knowing everything" one, you seem to have too much trust in.

A thorough reply to: hellobruce

Bruce, when you consider the following SHARP BANK remarks, I don't need to explain one word anymore of what you quoted there.

Now pay special attention again to some serious remarks in this eyewitness report, that has the potential to uncover the false flag Pentagon attack :

The Pentagon's Sept. 11 First Responder stories (page 1) :
www.defensemedianetwork.com...

Arlington County Police Department (ACPD) Cpl. Barry Foust, stopped at a traffic light less than two miles west of the Pentagon, saw the aircraft through his windshield. Three blocks away, at the intersection of Columbia Pike and South Wayne Street, ACPD Motorcycle Officer Richard Cox looked up to see, in the polished underside of the plane’s fuselage, the reflection of the buildings over which it was passing. Both officers then heard an explosion and saw a towering plume of smoke. Foust radioed: “We just had an airplane crash.” Cox was able to specify the Pentagon as the site of impact.

In Arlington County Fire Department’s Engine 101, Fire Capt. Steve McCoy and his crew, traveling north on Interstate 395 for a training exercise in Crystal City,
saw the plane bank sharply before disappearing over the horizon.
As soon as they heard the explosion and saw the massive plume of smoke and fire, McCoy radioed the Arlington County Emergency Communications Center (ECC) and – already thinking of the World Trade Center attacks – advised that the FBI be notified of a possible terrorist attack.

Here's the onset of that sharp bank as pictured by me in earlier years threads :



Those of you who are still active 9/11 US researchers with the means to conduct video interviews SHOULD IMMEDIATELY interview Richard Cox and especially Fire Capt. Steve McCoy AND his full 9/11 crew of FD Engine 101.
PLEASE also inform ALL genuine 9/11 researchers about this, I myself have never ever heard about these men their sharp bank remarks, regarding the last moments of Flight 77, as seen on 9/11.

OF COURSE the ""bank sharply"" remark, especially when corroborated by that whole fire-truck crew, should be cause for a new Pentagon investigation by US Congress, or, if no reaction by them is seen, an independent international forum of honest academics mixed with concerned global citizens (their investigation progress online filmed) .
It's really time to take matters back in our own hands, the decadence of war mongering Liars and Lies have lasted long enough.

These firemen were clearly traveling towards Crystal City over I-395, coming from the I-395 bridge over the Potomac, driving northwards, thus driving on I-395 along or already past the south wall side of the Pentagon, and on a route to the Crystal City turn off, which is spread out to the south of I-395, and adjacent to the Reagan International Airport grounds. Look it up on my below map :

www.twf.org...


(The only slight anomaly I see here would be the northwards travel remark, I-395 runs westwards there on its way to the exit to Crystal City. The other interstate route which is sometimes wrongly called 395 too, is Route 110, which runs northwards between the Pentagon and the Potomac River. So not to Crystal City.)

They can only loose sight "over the horizon" of the low diving huge plane when it disappeared behind the ridge that lays under the, then standing there, 5 floors high Wing 8 of the Navy Annex.
Thus they were driving on I-395 beside and alongside the Navy Annex, looking at the tail section of the disappearing plane behind the row of northeastern trees along that S-turn in the there descending part of Columbia Pike, when they lost sight at the plane "over the horizon".
While they were on their way to their exit ride off to Crystal City, which is situated spread-out along the southern side of I-395, and next to Reagan Int. Airport.

THEY SAW Flight 77 BANK SHARPLY..damn it.!!! Before disappearing over the horizon.
And then it impacted the Pentagon, they even heard it in their fire engine truck, and saw the smoke rising.

Then that crew HEARD and saw the explosion and smoke column, so they did for sure not report on eventually seeing the SMOOTH start of the downward spiral HIGH in the sky, at least 3 minutes earlier set in motion, which they could have followed during its full 3 minutes long nearly full circle descend. In that case they would have commented on that long, fast descending, flight path of a near full downward circle. And they would not have lost sight of it MANY minutes later "over the horizon".

This hugely important remark on an officially endorsed website immediately nullifies the falsified FDR and all the physical "evidence" like the 5 cut light poles and the C-Ring entry hole, and all of the South of CITGO flight path false internal damage path.

SINCE that FDR has not a shimmer of a SHARP BANK ANGLED event in it, damn it.!
That FDR depicts a STRAIGHT flight path passing beside the Navy Annex and right to the impact point, in a completely STRAIGHT line.

- - heard his colleague, Trooper Myrlin Wimbish, shouting excitedly over the radio that a plane had just crashed into the Pentagon. Wimbish had been refueling his patrol car within view of the Pentagon when Flight 77 hurtled overhead, so close that his car rocked in the turbulence of the plane’s wake. Wimbish, like many other witnesses, later observed that the plane was accelerating as it struck the building.

Sergeant Lagasse at the CITGO gas station.

Was he at the same CITGO gas station as Sergeant Lagasse? He says it was IN VIEW of the Pentagon, so it MUST be the CITGO.
Thus, we have now found a third witness aside from Sergeant Brooks, who can corroborate Lagasse's statements that he saw the plane fly NORTH of the CITGO.

INTERVIEW Trooper Myrlin Wimbish, Cpl. Barry Foust, ACPD Motorcycle Officer Richard Cox too.! Get their and most important, Fire Capt. Steve McCoy AND his full 9/11 crew of FD Engine 101 their tel.nrs, must be not too difficult.
Then conduct a telephone interview first, before the PumpItOut guy can spoil the whole thing again, by not asking the real KEY questions, as there are :

Where exactly were you when you saw Flight 77.? Can you mail us a map with a positional dot on it.?
Where was the plane, seen from your point of view, and indicated also on your mailed overhead map.?
How fast did it fly, and how high when YOU saw it, can you approximate those two values in M/hr and feet/yards.?
Did it fly at a 30 degree bank angle to earth, in a slight turn left and then back right again.?
Or did it fly straight all the way.?
Did it fly north or south of the gas station there.?
Did it impact or not, and if so, under what angle to the western wall of the Pentagon.?
Did you see it clip light pole tops.?
Did you see it hit a generator trailer just 30 yards away from impact.?
Etcetera.

Crystal City map :
www.google.com...@38.864066,-77.0548097,17z

originally posted by: MrBig2430

originally posted by: LaBTop

Then do realize too, that the Pentagon's west wall part that Flight 77 hit, was also lately reinforced with thick steel beams the size of the Twin Tower sides, intertwined around the windows

LMAO.

Ummmmm. No.

Well, yes.

The Pentagon's Sept. 11 First Responder stories :
www.defensemedianetwork.com...

i2.wp.com...
Photo 1 :




Thick embedded steel beams held up against the jet fuel-loaded left wing's fuel tank from Flight 77. Note also the thick brickwork behind the limestone deck plates and surrounding the still intact vertical columns.

911research.wtc7.net...

Pentagon Renovation
Renovation Program Had Hardened the Facade Attacked on 9/11/01

The renovation program included the following improvements to the building:

Exterior walls reinforced with steel
Exterior walls backed with Kevlar
Blast-resistant windows installed
Fire sprinklers installed
Automatic fire doors installed
Building operations and control center created

Steel Reinforcements

The steel reinforcements to the walls consisted of tubular frames surrounding the window openings and attaching to the reinforced concrete floor slabs. Each windowed wall panel (between vertical concrete columns) was retrofitted with a piece consisting of two horizontal tubes welded to two vertical tubes running from the floor to the ceiling. [3]

911research.wtc7.net...
Photo 2 :

This illustration shows reinforcements added to the Pentagon's walls as seen from the inside. Reinforced concrete columns are shown in gray, and tubular steel reinforcements are pictured in red.

The reinforcements were to be sequentially applied to the five wedges of the Pentagon over time. Wedge One -- one of five sections of the Pentagon -- was the first to be retrofitted, and the upgrades to the exterior wall were complete by 9/11/01. Wedge Two was apparently yet to be retrofitted. The plane crashed into the building's exterior entirely within Wedge One.

Kevlar cloth was stretched between the steel columns to provide blast resistance to the short spans of brick wall. [4]

Facade columns Twin Tower. Note that what you see is the aluminum cladding, the steel column inside those clad columns is somewhat smaller in size :
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...
Photo 3 :




The whole reinforced construction of the renovated outer wall of Wedge One was at least in its totality as strong as the outer facade columns of the Twin Towers, if not massively stronger.


Flight 77, which impacted at :
Triple-rebar steel reinforced columns, thick tubular steel columns, KEVLAR netting and thick brickwork in between, huge reinforced thick concrete floor decks at the Pentagon.

Compared against :

Flight 11 and Flight 175, which impacted at :
Steel H-shaped facade WTC columns and huge but somewhat thinner reinforced concrete floor decks.

It should be noted that most of the WTC towers facade steel columns were not cut, but bended inwards after their vertical connections to upper and lower columns from the Vierendeel facade-triplets were broken off by the force of the plane and its wings impacts.

So, why would Flight 77 not have been halted already very early on in the impact by these newly reinforced walls...? And the official angle of impact doesn't help at all when you consider the deflection forces involved at such a small angle of impact.
My proposal of a big 80 to 90 degrees angle of impact by a North of CITGO flying plane would deliver all involved vector forces nearly head-on on that reinforced wall.

And still the plane's nose cone at the front of the strongest, center longitudinal plane body beam that impacted right on the outer side of the reinforced concrete floor-slab between the first and second floor, near column14, would after impact and compacting end up near the back of the first, E-Ring area, which so conveniently collapsed on top of the then totally compacted plane debris there.

NOTE : the above DefenseMediaNetwork 4 part article was originally published here :
www.defensemedianetwork.com...
USS Arlington LPD 24 Commissioning
By Site Administrator - April 15, 2013
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NOTE 2 : I just see that I-395 DOES INDEED run for half a mile or so NORTH, along the Army Navy Country Club grounds on that Interstate eastern side; and that northerly direction ends when I-395 starts turning East, beside Prospect Hill Park.

Thus, my remarks about the slight anomaly I thought was in the words by Arlington County Fire Department’s Engine 101, Fire Capt. Steve McCoy and his crew, traveling north on Interstate 395 for a training exercise in Crystal City, I hereby retract.
Most certainly they were on that stretch of Interstate 395, preparing to take the only exit lane there to Crystal City with their ACFD fire truck Engine 101.

Now I understand even better what they meant with their words "lost over the horizon", since that stretch of I-395 is in fact as good as perpendicular oriented to the whole south side facade of the Navy Annex. Flight 77 did fly just 30 feet over the rim of that facade, then made that SUDDEN LEFT BANK maneuver, to avoid the high steel beam VDOT radio tower standing just a few meters south of Columbia Pike there. And then dove down towards the North side of the CITGO gas station. Now out of their sight, when diving under the horizon line above the 8th Navy Annex Wing and the eastern tree line below the ridge just east of there, as seen as the horizon line for those NORTH BOUND fire fighters.

This EARTH SHATTERING account of these firemen fits EXACTLY now, in all the other 25 eyewitness accounts about their reports of a North of CITGO gas station flying, banking slightly first left, then right, Flight 77.