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Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker. : WHY FAKING >73° BANK-ANGLES for a NoC FLYING PLANE.?

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posted on Jun, 2 2016 @ 08:49 AM
You already in another much older thread, where I FIRST came up with THIS new EVIDENCE of which I now gave again the links to, tried to keep up with the flow, but showed there, you couldn't understand the science laid out for you, and silently left the premises. Like all your other companions on the crusade against genuinely worried Doubters.
So much about who's the one with the education to understand complicated thesis.
It's you who has shown repeatedly that you do not actually know much about physics, or aircraft or how things actually work.

You lean for example on the expertise of a grumpy old pilot, who's wrong conclusions I addressed in my opening posts on page 1 of this same thread.

And I am sure I gave enough evidence that his signature link in this ATS website, to his explanation at, is a case of made-up 73 degrees-and-even-more-degrees bank angle-examples, which examples case made-up by him, does not fit reality at all.
edit on 2/6/16 by LaBTop because: Needed quite some more text to get the message through.

Forgot to add, why his calculations (based on ridiculous airspeeds) did not fit reality at all :
All ANC workers showed the CIT Team that video filmed their reports on the same ANC grounds where these men saw Flight 77 come diving down onto them in a smooth downwards NoC curve, flying in a smooth bank angle of about 30 to 35 degrees, flown by the plane they in REALITY saw pass their eyes.
You can't beat reality.
edit on 2/6/16 by LaBTop because: Added the REALITY check of the observed 35 degrees max bank angle flown by Flight 77 as seen by the ANC workers.

posted on Jun, 2 2016 @ 09:09 AM
The authors attack the Honegger Hypothesis. An extensive observation of the Pentagon attack, with a wealth of information concentrated in one article.
Which also has too many assumptions in it, based on clearly falsified official data.
What has happened to healthy distrust in that kind of official data pushing.?

It struck me deep, after further reading of their articles, that Barry Jennings was called by them an "obvious liar", which I do not believe at all, to me he was an honest integer man, who got put under immense pressure, near the publication of the Final WTC-7 NIST Report, to withdraw or alter his former reports in which he always talked about an explosion that forced him and Michael Hess from the 6th to the 8th floor.

The authors base their character assassination of a dead witness on their trust in other peoples words.
Well, in defense of a man I had high respect for and who can't defend himself anymore, here are some better based words from a guy who was really there too, nearly in the same moments Barry got there too, to the OEM floors on the 23rd floor of the WTC-7 building, around 09:00 a.m. on 9/11/2001 :

An excerpt from my post, click this link to see my full post :

Special Customs agent Joe Webber was at a staff meeting in WTC6, at 8:45 a.m., when the first plane hit the North Tower. Webber then ordered everybody to re-assemble in 7 World Tower, in the Office of Emergency Management at the specially reinforced 23rd floor. By the time they reached WTC7, there was panic and debris raining down on them all over the block.
The doors to the command post on the 23rd floor WERE LOCKED.

Just as Barry Jennings said. Who arrived around 9 o'clock in WTC7, as he said in his last Loose Change interviews.
WTC6 was a low building just over on the other side of Vesey Street, do you think it cost a few men together with Special Customs agent Joe Webber, all in a damn hurry, 45 long minutes to reach the WTC7's 23rd floor by elevator, in that building on the other side of the street?
I don't.
They surely walked down a few WTC6 stairs in a hurry, ran over the Plaza bridge to the WTC7 lobby and took an express elevator up to the 23rd floor. Let's say it took 15 minutes at the utmost.
Thus, the OEM office was abandoned totally, around 9 o'clock already (9:05 at most).

A public apology to his family, for calling him twice a liar, would be graceful.

I respect the two men, especially David Chandler for his head-on collision with NIST during their Final WTC-7 Report presentation, where he threw in his bomb-shell about the proven 2.25 seconds of free fall acceleration at the onset of that buildings global collapse.
I hope I don't have to loose that respect over their mistaken interpretations based on others their faulty reasoning, and clearly false information placed online by persons unknown.

posted on Jun, 2 2016 @ 09:52 AM
Read this too, and watch the video at the bottom of my post, where NYPD Sam Esposito tells you :

At 09:00, the NYPD offices in WTC-7 were also closed already.

posted on Jun, 3 2016 @ 08:54 AM
a reply to: samkent

Actually I am a pilot. Yes, I also fly in the flight levels.

That 2 hijackers, soaked in blood from just having slit a number of throats, and having never in their lives or training flown a Boeing in the flight levels, flying on a CAVU day and performing extremely demanding maneuvers, working to gain entrance to heaven and 72 virgins, would reset their altimeters in accordance with the rules is an absurd proposition. That they would reset the altimeters at the exact same second is ludicrous.

Thank you Sam, for believing the absurd official story. Your obedience makes the government quite happy. Maybe you will receive a commendation for it one day?

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:44 AM
We now proceed to find more on the Arlington County Fire Department’s Engine 101, Fire Capt. Steve McCoy and his crew, let's see what we can dig up about these brave men and women.

Steve McCoy, › Entities :
Profile: Steve McCoy
Steve McCoy was a participant or observer in the following events:

Fire Captain Steve McCoy and his crew are traveling north on Interstate 395 in ACFD Engine 101, for a training session in Crystal City. McCoy reportedly sees “a commercial airliner in steep descent, banking sharply to its right before disappearing beyond the horizon,” followed by “a tremendous explosion” and “a massive plume of smoke and fire.” He immediately radioes ECC and reports, “We got a plane down, it looks like in the Crystal City area by the 14th Street Bridge.” Being aware of the attacks on the World Trade Center, he advises that the FBI should be notified, as this is a possible terrorist attack. [US Department of Health and Human Services, 7/2002, pp. A4 pdf file; Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 66]

That alone already indicates that the Flight 77 FDR is falsified for at least the last 5 to 10 seconds, since it doesn't show ANY sharp banking maneuver in its last seconds FDR-decoded data streams.
That banking sharply to its right, before disappearing beyond the horizon, must be the sharp right bank at 35 degrees after it past north of the CITGO gas station, to return to its intended impact point on the 14th column at the Pentagon West wall.

Arlington County Emergency Communications Center (ECC) was a participant or observer in the following events :

Steve McCoy and crew are again mentioned, also these events :

Emergency responders and others at the Pentagon experience serious problems with communications following the attack there. These difficulties last for several hours. [US Department of Health and Human Services, 7/2002, pp. 12-13 pdf file; Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 114] - - snip - -
Officer Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon police heads to the crash site with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld immediately after the Pentagon is hit. He receives frantic pleas over his radio, regarding Rumsfeld’s whereabouts. But, as Davis later recalls, “the system was overloaded, everyone on the frequency was talking, everything jumbled, so I couldn’t get through and they went on asking” (see (9:38 a.m.-10:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Cockburn, 2007, pp. 1-2] Cellular and landline telephone communications remain “virtually unreliable or inaccessible during the first few hours of the response.” But later on, in the afternoon, Verizon technicians and Secret Service technical staff install portable cellular towers at the Pentagon, and this significantly increases cell phone access. [US Department of Health and Human Services, 7/2002, pp. C36 pdf file] Communications problems are experienced not just around the Pentagon but also in the broader Washington area, with some senior government officials being affected (see (After 8:55 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Verton, 2003, pp. 149]

Why did the ones who were asking all the time for Rumsfeld, got through on her radio, but she could not get out to answer, on the same radio.?

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:46 AM

The Pentagon was evacuated two times on September 11, due to false alarms over reports of unidentified aircraft heading for Washington (see (10:15 a.m.-10:38 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and (2:00 p.m.) September 11, 2001). [Fire Engineering, 11/2002]
(2:00 p.m.) September 11, 2001: False Alarm over Approaching Aircraft Leads to Pentagon Evacuation, Disrupting Firefighting and Evidence-Gathering Operations.

(10:00 a.m.) September 12, 2001: False Alarm over Inbound Plane Leads to Pentagon Evacuation

Three full evacuation events at the Pentagon, 2 on 9/11 and one on 9/12.
For instance, time enough for 9/11 planners to let incriminating evidence disappear.

ACFD response on the 9/11 Pentagon attack.
First, this excerpt :

The federal fire department, located at Fort Myer, maintains a crash unit at the Pentagon heliport that is staffed by three firefighters during normal business hours.

I recall only reports from 2 firefighters who were outside, at their Engine truck, when they saw the plane coming at them. Where's the report of the third one.?

This is all by Fire, about Steve McCoy and his crew, a bit thin, ain't it. Purposeful thin? :

On the morning of September 11, the regional response was almost overwhelming. Alexandria Fire Department (AFD) units were already on pager alert because of the World Trade Center (WTC) attack, and Fairfax Fire & Rescue Department units were watching CNN coverage of the WTC. When Captain Steve McCoy of Engine 101 reported a plane going down in the vicinity of the 14th Street Bridge, all the response units in the county immediately began gearing up.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:48 AM
About the FOUR evacuations :

Four site evacuations were ordered in the first 24 hours:

The first (at 0955 hours) was because of structural concerns.
Chief Schwartz called the second evacuation at 1015 hours; the "All clear" was given at 1038 hours, after the plane crash was reported in Pennsylvania. SA Combs had first received notification of this threat by radio from the FBI Washington Field Office (WFO), which was in direct contact with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
The third one was around 1400 hours on September 11.
The last one was at 1000 hours on September 12.

These subsequent evacuations were necessary only because the FBI presence at the command post had been disrupted. Around noon, Assistant Special Agent in Charge (ASAC) Robert Blecksmith arrived on-scene and assumed the role of the FBI on-scene commander.

Recognizing SA Combs' exceptional working relationship with Chief Schwartz and other key leaders of the response group, Blecksmith retained Combs as an advisor. Blecksmith then relocated the FBI's Unified Law Enforcement Command Center to the Virginia State Police Barracks, adjacent to the Navy Annex and overlooking the Pentagon. This removed the FBI presence from the command post, delaying Command's being able to confirm any threats.

When the control tower at Reagan National Airport notified the ECC of "inbound unidentified aircraft," the ECC informed the IC. Later, both of these planes were determined to be "friendly," but there was no way to confirm this initially. The IC was forced to order evacuations both times.

Keep in mind that amid these reports of additional threats of aircraft, there were also rumors of car bombings at the Capitol, an attack on the White House, the collapse (later confirmed) of the WTC, terrorist acts in Chicago, and all sorts of disturbing and unsettling news.

Had the FBI maintained its presence at the command post, the lapse in nullifying the threat would have been avoided. This underscored the importance of the unified command. These delays were frustrating and concerned the crews whose efforts were disrupted. But, the stage had been set. Once the crews were able to proceed, they continued an aggressive, sustained attack of the heavy fire in and around the impact area.

They were "concerned". No, they were outraged.!

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:59 AM
One thing I find particularly intriguing :
If you search that Fire article for 101 (Steve McCoy's Engine 101), you do not find anything else than the one small mentioning of it.
So, where did this important Engine 101 firetruck, loaded with Flight 77 witnesses, ended up.?
They were about the nearest to the Pentagon West wall from all approaching Fire trucks, but no mentioning of them at all in the subsequent Rescue Operations.....and they were the first there....

Aha, found another name from the crew of Engine 101, in that huge by the DoD written book titled "Pentagon 9/11", at its page 66 :
Captain Steve McCoy and firefighter Andrea Kaiser, on ACFD Engine 101 ...

Now watch how the military editors cut out important snippets :

Captain Steve McCoy and firefighter Andrea Kaiser, on ACFD Engine 101 traveling north on Interstate 395 for a training session, (LT : left out : in Crystal City at Ronald Reagan Int. Airport) caught sight of an airliner descending steeply (LT : left out : and banking sharply to the right) and disappearing over the horizon, heard an explosion, and then saw a plume of smoke. McCoy radioed ECC and reported, "We got a plane down, it looks like in the Crystal City area by the 14th Street Bridge."

Also edited out in this news article, McCoy's remark about that sharp right bank before Flight 77 disappeared under his horizon :

Before Tuesday, planes flew out of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and past the Pentagon every day without much notice from Arlington County Fire Department Capt. Stephen McCoy. But that day, the 21-year fire service veteran knew something was wrong when he saw the American Airlines jetliner fly so low. (LT : ????? where's his bank remark????)
"After it hit, we saw the big mushroom cloud," Capt. McCoy said, describing what he and his crew of three saw as they were driving in their engine from Fire Company 101 in Shirlington to Crystal City. "We just thought it was going to be chaos and hell and it was."
Capt. McCoy, 41, and his crew were first on the scene after terrorists crashed Flight 77 into the west side of the Pentagon. Military officials say as many as 190 lives were lost, including the 64 persons on board the plane.
Capt. McCoy didn't have time to consider the devastation, nor did anyone else. All they could do was respond and treat the wounded. Still, some images will forever be in the minds of the firefighters on scene a little after 9:40 Tuesday morning.
"There were severe burns. Some with their clothes still smoldering," Arlington County Fire Capt. Ed Blunt said of the injuries he saw when he pulled up to the scene, the flames engulfing part of the Pentagon.
Selflessness was obvious, among firefighters and victims, Capt. Blunt said.
Capt. Blunt described one man, dressed in an Army uniform, who wanted to make sure others got help.
"He had both of his hands basically cut off" at the wrist, Capt. Blunt said, but "he was concerned about us treating others."
Battling the blaze was frustrating at first, Capt. McCoy said, because threats of more suicide attacks forced fire crews to evacuate.
The fire raged inside for more than 24 hours before being brought under control. Firefighters searched through darkness in heavy black smoke and suffocating heat.
"With the concrete flooring, it made it feel like an oven," Capt. McCoy said.

You see the fast unfolding of self-editing.?
But we now know a tad bit more : they were with three, and McCoy, 4 in total in that Engine 101, stationed in Shirlington, and .... they were first on the scene.!
But they are not mentioned in the above huge Fire Engineering article.....Why not ?

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:07 AM
Arlington County After Action Report :

Google excerpt : 17 Sep. 2001 - This document was prepared for Arlington County by Titan. Systems ... Annex A – Fire Department Operations. Section 1: Initial ..... His designated Deputy Coordinator of Emergency Services,. Captain Mark Penn ..... In Arlington County, Captain Steve McCoy and the crew of Engine 101 were en route to a ...

Page 26 of 215 (Annex A - Page A-4) :

At 9:37 a.m., in Arlington County, Captain Steve McCoy and the crew of ACFD Engine 101 were en route to a training session in Crystal City, traveling north on Interstate 395. Their conversation about the World Trade Center attack earlier that morning was interrupted by the sight and sound of a commercial airliner in steep descent, banking sharply to its right before disappearing beyond the horizon. At 9:38 a.m., shortly after American Airlines Flight #77 disappeared from sight, a tremendous explosion preceded a massive plume of smoke and fire. Unable to pinpoint the precise location, Captain McCoy immediately radioed the Arlington County Emergency Communications Center (ECC), reporting an airplane crash in the vicinity of the 14th Street Bridge or in Crystal City. Aware of the World Trade Center attack, Captain McCoy also advised that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) should be notified, since this was a possible terrorist attack. Hearing the radio message, fire and rescue units from Arlington County and elsewhere began to respond, self-dispatching from stations or diverting from other destinations.

After reading all the references, we can distinctly say at this moment in time, that McCoy and crew said exactly that :

""the sight and sound of a commercial airliner in steep descent,
before disappearing beyond the horizon. At 9:38 a.m., shortly after American Airlines Flight #77 disappeared from sight, a tremendous explosion preceded a massive plume of smoke and fire.""

Remember, the Annex stood on the rim of a steep ridge that descends to the flat plains alongside the Potomac river. And along the bottom of that ridge was a long row of high trees situated, which tops probably formed these firefighters horizon line. If not that one, then the somewhat elevated, eastwards to the river turning next stretch of I-395 formed part of their northeastern horizon line from their position on the northbound lanes stretch of I-395, driving along the Army Navy Country Club golf course grounds, which are situated along I-395 its southwards lanes, on McCoy's west side there, while he was driving on its northwards lanes. Which is a wide, flat, grassy golf course lined with trees, so not much in the way of their view on the from west to east flying plane, right in front of them.

And from their northward driving position on I-395, they could not clearly see the first VDOT radio-mast-evasive, slight left bank (+/- 10 degrees) forcing the plane over the Annex roofs and over the Y shaped antenna in the middle of the 8th Wing's eastern roof line, but saw the much sharper (35 degrees), returning to the west wall bank to the right, above the north side of the CITGO much better.
And you ALL should know now, from my opening post, that such banking INDICATES with 100% certainty that that plane was flying by far not so fast as that false FDR wants you to believe.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:14 AM
For sure some still disillusioned reader of the official stories will try to come up with the last part of the 340 degrees circling down maneuver by Flight 77 to explain McCoy's words.
And yes, Flight 77 was all the way banking with its right wing down, so to its right, before leveling off and starting to go straight along Columbia Pike towards that VDOT radio mast on the right side of the Pike, across that street in front of the south side of the 8 Navy Annex Wings.

Well, there at the end of its 330 degrees downwards descend, it was still flying far too high to even remotely fit the next follow-up description by Steve McCoy and crew of three, about it banking sharply to its right BEFORE disappearing beyond their horizon.

Just view the NTSB animation of the last part of Flight 77 again. It's based on the FDR data from the official flight path.
They could easily see it all the way to the eight Navy Annex roofs from their position on that northbound part of I-395. It flew still high enough to be seen by that crew all the way until it descended below the ridge behind the Navy Annex 8th Wing roof. Terry Morin told us that it flew about 50 yards or perhaps 100 feet above the Annex roofs when it passed above his head, when he was standing in awe looking up, just a few steps outside the southern walls of the Annex. (4:21 min. )

JohnDoeX : This is the final maneuver performed by the aircraft which hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 according to the govt story. This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft. It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB. Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB. Please pay attention to the end of the video, as the altitude is too high to have hit the light poles that were reported to have been struck by the same aircraft which hit the pentagon. The video comment inserts are provided by an experienced Airline pilot.

Well, there IS a video by Jeff "screen name : "shure" from the PumpitOut forums (he made a lot of other 9/11 related phonecalls, f.ex. to one of my unearthed Route 27 NoC-eyewitnesses, Penny Elgas) with audio of a telephone inquiry to the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board), regarding their animation, with their Chief of the Vehicle Performance Division, Jim Ritter (vehicle = airplane in this case) :

Phone call to NTSB regarding AA77 Flight Data Recorder. By John DoeX : (10:51 min. )

NTSB report of the last minute of Flight 77 : Over the next 30 seconds, power was increased to near maximum and the nose was pitched down in response to control column movements. The airplane accelerated to approximately 460 knots (530 miles per hour) at impact with the Pentagon. The time of impact was 9:37:45 AM.

Listen to Ritter's evasive comments.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:26 AM
The firefighters crew of four, under them Steve McCoy and Andrea Kaiser, driving on the last northbound part of I-395, were past the Army Navy Country Club grounds laying to the west of I-395, a huge grassy golf course lined with trees blocking their lower view to their left side, but at the top of the slope-up, their front view was free of obstacles when they saw Flight 77 passing the Sheraton Hotel in front of them, then over the Navy Annex roofs, and then diving downwards in a slight 10 degrees left turn first that was not too obvious for them, then turning around the north side of the CITGO gas station where it performed a more distinctive right bank of 35 degrees back to the impact point on the 14th column of the Pentagon's west wall.
This is the view they had, but now in 2015, without the Navy Annex buildings in the center of this 2015 Google Street View screenshot :

Another view, from Sep. 2014 :

This is a 2007 view, with the Annex buildings still there. Note the high and still present steel VDOT radio mast smack in the center of the blue sky in this Street View picture :

These three above pictures were all taken a short distance in front of 14th Street bridge in I-395.

Arlington County After-Action Report.
Introduction, Page 9.
""At 9:37 a.m., in Arlington County, Captain Steve McCoy and the crew of ACFD Engine 101 were en route to a training session in Crystal City, traveling north on Interstate 395. Their conversation about the World Trade Center attack earlier that morning was interrupted by the sight and sound of a commercial airliner in steep descent, banking sharply to its right before disappearing beyond the horizon. At the same time, ACPD Corporal Barry Foust and Officer Richard Cox, on patrol in south Arlington County, saw a large American Airlines aircraft in a steep dive and on a collision course with the Pentagon.""

My above italicized portion of text is clearly a different follow-up then from the same first two sentences as shown by me further above, from the same ACAA Report, but now from its page 26 of 215 (Annex A - Page A-4), there the reporter followed up with these different lines of text :
""- - snip - - the horizon. At 9:38 a.m., shortly after American Airlines Flight #77 disappeared from sight, a tremendous explosion preceded a massive plume of smoke and fire.""

As a reporter, you also would never use these words :
""banking sharply to its right before disappearing beyond the horizon. At the same time (etcetera)"",
in lock step with your next printed words :
""saw a large American Airlines aircraft in a steep dive and on a collision course with the Pentagon"",
when you as a reporter would have understood from the words of McCoy, that he was describing a last right banking part of the steep circling down maneuver of the same Flight 77, however ending in a straight path at a much higher altitude, AND certainly NOT ON A COLLISION COURSE, yet, with the Pentagon. And still many (30) seconds away from disappearing under the horizon, in its last 3 to perhaps 5 seconds trajectory around the CITGO north side, back in a right bank to the impact point.
Count out for yourself those 30 LONG seconds, after Flight 77 came out of its nearly full circle down to Columbia Pike, at the moment when it went on a straight flight path (says the FDR) towards the west wall of the Pentagon. NO BANKS in that FDR anymore, in those last 30 seconds.!

This is the slightly different wording of this DoD-article :

In Arlington County Fire Department’s Engine 101, Fire Capt. Steve McCoy and his crew, traveling north on Interstate 395 for a training exercise in Crystal City, saw the plane bank sharply before disappearing over the horizon. As soon as they heard the explosion and saw the massive plume of smoke and fire, McCoy radioed the Arlington County Emergency Communications Center (ECC) and – already thinking of the World Trade Center attacks – advised that the FBI be notified of a possible terrorist attack.

No addition such as : "to its right" , nor : "in a steep dive and on a collision course with the Pentagon".
And of course a DoD reporter would have printed it different, when McCoy talked about the moment that the plane came out of that right bank from its near full circle, on its 30 seconds last, straight flight path to the Pentagon.
He would have printed it as :
"" - -snip - - ,saw the plane bank sharply (to the right), then leveling out on a long straight descend to the Pentagon, before disappearing over the horizon. ""

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:32 AM
Do not forget these remarks :

Wimbish had been refueling his patrol car within view of the Pentagon when Flight 77 hurtled overhead, so close that his car rocked in the turbulence of the plane’s wake. Wimbish, like many other witnesses, later observed that the plane was accelerating as it struck the building.

Middleton set out immediately for the Pentagon. When he turned south onto Route 110, he heard another tremendous explosion, followed by a roiling column of smoke.

Of course the presence of Trooper Wimbish at the CITGO gas station, where his car rocked in the turbulence of the plane's wake nullifies the NoC flight path, since the plane in that path was not even near to the CITGO gas station.

Now, is there anybody getting curious to interview Middleton?
To ask him about that TREMENDOUS SECOND explosion he heard after the first one of the impact.?
Or did he hear first the Wedge 2 debris-path-constructing explosion, and then the impact...?

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:43 AM
A Sep. 2014 Google Street View screenshot from the last northbound stretch right lane of I-395, which shows at left the Sheraton Hotel, at center you had in 2001 the now gone (flattened) 8 Navy Annex Wings and the now still there VDOT Radio mast (there are two now), and to the right the Air Force Memorial in front of the former 2001 mid section of the 8th Navy Annex Wing, which spot, according to Morin, the plane flew right through.

It's shot from that part of still northbound I-395 that is called Henry G. Shirley Memorial Highway. As you can see, Steve McCoy and crew had an unhindered front seat view on the descending Flight 77, until it disappeared behind the now there standing AF-Memorial on that steep hillside rim at the far right in the above picture, their horizon line, after it had to veer to the left to avoid that single VDOT radio mast from Sep. 2001.

CLICK to SEE Street View picture.

This is an Aug. 2009 Google Street View with the Navy Annex 7 Wings still standing ( the 8th Wing was removed to make place for that AF Memorial) :

View from Sheraton National Hotel in Feb. 2010 over the Navy Annex and to the west wall of the Pentagon :

And that's why Flight 77 ended up in view of Sgt Lagasse at the north side gas pumps, and corrected its detour by banking sharply to the right to be able to hit on its designated spot, with the purpose to eradicate the ONI offices and all its early morning meeting participants. Those were all the professionals that were investigating the Bush and cronies families misdeeds. They all died, except one very young courier that was sent away, just one minute ago, to bring a paper or papers to another office.
As I have hinted on a long time ago already, when you find the person who ordered or organized that early morning ONI meeting, but was not there himself, you have your best waterboarding individual at hand to lay the whole conspiracy wide open.

For a beautiful aerial view of the whole region in which the last 5 seconds for Flight 77 enfolded, see this enormous wide, downwards view from 2007 :

The same one, with two distorted flight paths drawn in it by me :

Photographic distortion makes it difficult to draw a realistic flight path in the above photo, I tried with the yellow path as the NoC one, and the red path as the SoC official one. As you can see, both do not adhere to realistic dimensions, because of those distortion effects.
In the above photo you get however a good feel for what sort of tiny flight path deviation we talk about in this thread's discussions. But what a HUGE impact it has on the whole official story telling.

If we draw a path, as seen from a point right above that scene, like the following below one, it becomes more obvious that it is not really a far fetched endeavor for a much slower flying plane, to make those maximum 35 degrees banking maneuvers.
Which much slower air speed all the 35 degree bank eyewitnesses strongly indicated without realizing that such a bank belongs to that drawn, precise turn radius; and thus also to that precise slower speed, much slower than the FDR air speed :

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:46 AM
The trusters of course hang on their straight as a pencil line flight path through 5 light poles, followed by their entry and exit hole trajectory. The exit hole by the way, is an entry hole blown in that C-Ring wall to get in, OR for a special-ops party destroying all ONI evidence, to quickly get out.

We doubters point on the 25+ eyewitnesses for a north of CITGO gas station flight path at a much lower air speed and with a 10 degrees left bank and then a longer, 35 degrees right banking flight path in it. Passing to the north of the CITGO gas station.

This is a screenshot from 2008, from the northbound part of I-395, when all those Annex buildings still stood there, just as FD Captain Steve McCoy, firefighter Andrea Kaiser and two other firefighters in Engine 101 saw, when looking at the diving Flight 77, which then avoided that VDOT radio mast you see in the center, and veered off to the left, to regain course again by banking sharply (35 degrees) to the right, above the northerly grounds of the CITGO gas station, where it was seen and reported by Sgt. Lagasse, after which the crew of Engine 101 lost sight of the plane when it flew too low for them, it got under their horizon :

Press the CTRL key, together with the PLUS key (+) repeatedly, to enlarge your browsers pictures (and text), and study them more intensely. Then use the MINUS (-) key together with the CTRL key to restore your favorite text size again.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:49 AM
We can assume with a great amount of certainty a few things now :

1. WTC-7 was evacuated shortly before, at or after 9 o'clock a.m. on 9-11-2001, directly after the first plane hit the North Tower.
Totally in disagreement with ALL the official reports about its evacuation orders which they say have been given MUCH later.
Further personal interviews can bring it to a 100 % certainty.

Persons of interest to legally interview :

- - Joe Webber and all his companions in the meeting in WTC-6 at 08:45 on 9/11.
- - NYPD Sam Esposito and all his colleagues but especially his superiors that were involved with that very early closing down of the NYPD offices in WTC-7, already at a very NONLOGICAL time : BEFORE 9 o'clock.
- - Michael Hess, who did report on 9/11 essentially the same as Barry Jennings, but changed all that after he became involved with former NY mayor Giuliani.
- - Former Mayor Giuliani and ALL his Commissioners, especially the ones that were with him in the back of WTC-7 at Barclay Street at 9:20 a.m., when they decided to go set up a temporary command post at West Street.
GREAT question here : So WHO of these men already gave the order to evacuate WTC-7 just after the first plane hit.? Lots of people must know this, why is that name not mentioned in any OFFICIAL report.? They all act as if they didn't gave that order so early on 9/11.
There must be a lot of LIARS in New York's top political artists circles.
- - Bernhard Kirick, former Police Chief under Giuliani, later convicted for corruption and served time for it.
All these persons should testify under court order and sworn to tell the truth and nothing else than the truth. (Which will be a damn difficult task in particular for Giuliani and his Commissioners, Hess and Kirick)
- - The video taped legacy of Barry Jennings.!
- - The small black American Firefighter who saved Barry and Hess, with his crew from their trapped position on the 8th WTC-7 floor its eastern corner, and stood beside him, both covered in dust, in that first street interview with Barry on 9/11 while he was on his way to Town Hall, just as Hess, who got half an hour earlier already interviewed on Broadway near Town Hall. He told us that both stairwells in WTC-7 were collapsed....
That brave sturdy firefighter together with his whole crew should be legally interviewed also, as soon as possible. To hear from first persons, what exactly the internal damage in WTC-7 was.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:52 AM
2. Flight 77 veered off slightly north from its straight path as pictured in its now definitely questionable last 10 seconds of its recovered FDR, at a point between the Sheraton Hotel and the first Wing of the Navy Annex, probably to avoid collision with the high steel VDOT radio mast.
It corrected that veering north maneuver by banking at about 35 degrees back to the south before passing the northerly grounds of the CITGO gas station, and leveled itself off again just before passing South Washington Boulevard (a.k.a. State Route 27), slightly to the right/south of the two small trees that were growing along that road on that day (now long gone), and passed with its left wing tip slightly down, along the south side of the Helicopter pad and slammed then under an angle between 80 and 90 degrees with the west wall, into its column 14 with its nose cone at the height of the first floor's concrete slab and its right wing lifted up slightly under an angle of 4 to 6 degrees to the ground and its debris ended all up in Wedge-1 and came to a halt at the back of the later collapsed part of it. The dark gray part of this :

And certainly did not hit the west wall under the far smaller angle of 52 degrees as proposed by the official stories, coming from a flight path south of the CITGO gas station :

It means that all the 5 light poles that were cut, were not cut by that plane's wings, but by human hands.
It also means that the internal debris path inside Wedge-1 was real, however around 10 o'clock all the plane remains there were covered up by the collapsing Wedge-1 portion, and we never saw any pictures made during the clean up process afterwards, nor saw any report of what was found under that Wedge-1, E-Ring rubble heap.
It follows from all the eyewitness evidence, that all the debris in the Wedge-2 "path" must have been caused by other means.
The so called "exit" hole was clearly an entry hole blown out by detonation cord inside a "Wall Breaching Unit" (look up pictures of it, search ATS for LaBTop and those 3 words).
They used that unit to preserve the windows and wall of the B Ring wall on the other side of the AE-Drive. It would have been too obvious if they had used only detonation cord, and too difficult to keep that cord close on the C-Ring brick wall.

An immense task for any investigative independent journalist left in the US, to interview all our 25+ eyewitnesses again, and ask them specifically WHERE EXACTLY they stood when the plane came pass or to them, or over them.
Let's hope there are still REAL Americans left in that shrunken niche of honest reporting, left over particularly in the Internet dungeons in the US , still with the balls to counter the Flow.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:54 AM
A reply to: Informer1958 (WTC-7 Mysteries finally solved)
I seem to mix up my answers about the Pentagon attack f.ex. in the wrong subject threads by me, like the WTC-7 thread. Sorry for that, I will cross-link this post there.

It's not only "the pressure under the plane", it is mainly caused by the (still present) uplifting forces (also at high speeds), from both the wing tip vortexes (a sort of whirlpool/eddy/swirl/vortex of air particles) when they are disturbed when touching the ground if a plane is too near to that ground. It starts when the plane is within its own wingspan-distance from the ground, and increases mightily when closing in to that ground level.
It causes a disturbance of the airflow over the wings which let it loose part of their air pressure above that wing tip region, and then the still present air pressure under its total wing areas forces the plane upwards. In short, upper wing tips areas loose some air-pressure capacity and that results in a plane really wanting to go upwards. The (auto)pilot must push the stick a bit down then, but in fast repetition, to keep a plane flying straight, that close to the ground.
As you see pictured in the above diagram of the last 5 seconds of flight for Flight 77.
It did that every 1/8th of a second, try to duplicate that with your hands, good luck with it.

So against popular belief, a plane gets not sucked TO the ground by the ground effect, but pushed up away FROM the ground.
Ground effect diminishes at greater speeds, but is STILL noticeable present.

That above diagram shows the electronic measures from an autopilot system, trying to compensate for ground effect at very high speed and very near to the ground, measured every 1/8th of a second.
No human can do that so fluently.
Which is a HUGE contradiction in terminus, since the recovered FDR showed us that ALL autopilot systems were shut off 10 minutes EARLIER (3 A/P blocks are white = off)
See for that, the NTSB animation for AA77 on YouTube : (4:21 min. )

Note that no jet pilot in possession of all his/her full brain capacity will try to fly two meters off the ground at an airshow, without all his autopilot functions in working order. They will, to begin with, not ever try to fly only a few (3 to 5 meters) off the ground with their plane its BELLY. There is a video of a Jet Fighter pilot flying ridiculously low over the head of his mate who's standing on a runway. But, that's not a B757 flying about 1.5 meters above the Pentagon lawn its grass.

edit on 24/6/16 by LaBTop because: Forgot the 5 secs diagram.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:57 AM
As on 9/11 however, without AP functions on, a B-757 flew with its belly only about 2 to 3 meters off the Pentagon lawns its grass over an at least 300 meters long trajectory, since they showed us so triumphantly the heights at which those 5 light poles were cut (about 7 to 8 meter of their full 9 meter tall length) with its wing tips.
Someone should start to make a graphic in which all the cut-off heights of all 5 light poles are set out over the horizontal trajectory of the FDR flight path. Find the dips.
The first one cut stood just beside a heightened overpass bridge (Route 27 over the last part of the Pike). The second one stood beside the entrance ramp to the northbound lane of Route 27. Measure the difference in height for pole 1 and the rest of them, then observe the cut-off heights, see if they fit in a straight wing tips line flight path.

Here, a B757-200 measurements diagram, observe its belly distance to its wing fronts. Push CTRL and then repeatedly the + key, to enlarge the diagram in your browser, then measure with a pair of compasses and compare to the given values in meters or feet) :

Its officially decoded FDR says it flew in a clean configuration, wheels up and flaps in, so you must count from the bottom of the engines nacelles up to the front line of the wings its WING-TIPS.
If we assume the plane flew 2 to 3 meters above the grass, that means that an 8 meters light pole cut-height minus 5 meters is 3m above grass, or a 7 meters light pole cut-height minus 5 meters is 2m above grass. I.o.w., that's 3m or 2m above ground level.
There's however another value we have to take in consideration, the severely flexed up wing-tips which were the ones that cut those light poles at THOSE speeds of 500+ mph.

Fuselage diameter is 4.01m. Belly to ground 2.5m. Nacelle-bottom to belly 2m. Wheels on ground to belly bottom 2m.
Jet engine nacelle-bottom to wing TIP front line is about 4m when parked.

At 500+ mph another 1.5m on top of that is 5.5 meter. That's still 1.5m room under the nacelle-bottoms, to clear the 0.5 to 0.8 m high entrance-ramp guard rails under light pole 2, when that pole would have been cut at 7 m height.
The only trouble I see, is that the grassy area behind that guard rail, raised quite some meters up over that short distance of about 100 meters, towards the Pentagon's west wall.
And could a B757, even WITH autopilot functions on, be able to compensate those mere 1.5 meters left under its engine nacelles bottoms that fast, to clear that elevation difference.?

I really really doubt it.
Could the maximum flexing-up of those wing tips at that speed be the second mistake made by the Pentagon attack planners, who told the executioners where and how high to cut those 5 light poles and then bring them in the darkness of the early 9/11 morning to their designated positions, laying beside those roads.?
The first mistake was the switching off of all three A/P functions, ten minutes before impact, in that last part of AA77's recovered FDR.
The third mistake was the publication of those 5 last seconds of flight time diagram.
And the fourth mistake was to gag order Sgt William Lagasse and Sgt Chadwick Brooks, after they said to the CIT guys on video, that they bet their life on the fact they saw that plane fly NORTH of the CITGO gas station.
Now we have another policeman, a State Trooper, Myrlin Wimbish who also was at the CITGO station and saw the plane coming at him, and it rocked his police cruiser.
Only that statement is enough to nullify the official SoC flight path, since its version of AA77 did NOT fly over, or anywhere near the CITGO station, according to the officially decoded FDR.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:59 AM
May I point the readers to something everyone seems to avoid or forget.
A plane flying in such dense air, a few meters off the ground, at such ridiculous speeds (500+ mph), will have its wings and its wing-tips FLEXED UP to the MAX.
So you will have to count that in, when measuring the height of the light pole cuts towards the bottom of the B757-200 its jet engine nacelles.
Ask a B-757 engineer, how much that is.

I sat in one at cruising altitude and speed, so in much, much thinner air, and still the whole wing including wing tips flexed up at least 1m 50 cm.
Its cabin is 4.01 meters high, you sit a bit above center line, let's say at about 2.8 to 3 meters above the wing struts with your eyes.
The wing tips are about 0.5 meter above the cabin ceiling's outer plating at that speed.

At ground level with 500+ miles per hour, it's your guess, but the flexing will be even more because of the MUCH denser air, forcing the wings and its tips even higher up.

Look carefully to the front view of that B757-200 up there, in its parking position, those wing tips are already a bit higher than the middle line through the cabin, that's at its 2 m height.
That cabin is 4.01 m high from belly bottom to its ceiling plating. If you are 2 m long, you have to seriously bend your head when walking the isles, so its cabin floor is not at 2 m high in its total height of 4.01 m, it's higher than that, about 0.2 m higher.

So, you have to subtract at least 1.5 meters from the cuts in those first two light poles, to arrive at the parking conditions wing tip height above the jet engine nacelles bottoms their measurement values in that B757-200 diagram.
Then you have to take in consideration that the second cut light pole stood close behind or inside a guard rail, at least 60 to 80 cm, 0.6 to 0.8 m high. You have to take that height in consideration too, so subtract its height from the maneuvering space, when you try to imagine if those engine nacelles bottoms could have flown OVER those Route 27 entrance ramp its guard rails.

As a side note, yes, at those speeds, a hard aluminum wing front will cut through an aluminum light pole's thinner top like a knife through butter, so that's not the beef we have with those 5 cut poles. And it will not severely damage that wing tip's front surface, perhaps a dent, no more.
That wing tips small surface area and its length and thickness of material positioned behind it, that comes in contact with the small surface of that same small pole diameter surface area, has a far greater mass and speed and thus momentum than that tiny bit of impacted stationary pole aluminum.
And that's why it cuts through it like butter.
But that fact is what the 9/11 planners knew also, when they planned their coup the grace to all early doubters, introducing that "hard" physical evidence to their "convince the uneducated masses" strategy of hammering THEIR flight path into those gullible minds, still on full patriotic revenge setting.

The only thing these planners could not control, was the abundance of eyewitnesses to a, just slightly different, flight path. And who could get in touch with them, or find their subscriptions of details of such a condemning to their cause, different flight path in the last 10 to 5 seconds.

posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 03:27 PM
Well, since nobody else seems to have the STAMINA anymore, I'll do the footwork once more.
In earlier 9/11 ATS-Forum board days, cahoots of doubters would jump on Google Search, and start to look up everything they could find about new eyewitnesses brought to their attention.
Sigh.. 9/11 Research used to be a concerted effort...

I first started to Google anything related to Trooper Myrlin Wimbish Jr.
Note especially the dates the articles were published :

An interview with him and Mike Middleton 10 years later, on Sept. 11, 2011 by Jim Nolan from the Richmond Times :
First a dark photo with these lines under it :

Virginia State Police troopers Mike Middleton (45, left) and Myrlin Wimbish Jr. (61, right), seen in Arlington County under the flight path of the plane that struck the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

Then a piece of text in his own words :

"My car was facing toward the gas pumps and I'm looking at the plane coming toward me," says trooper Myrlin Wimbish Jr., who was near the Arlington County barracks within view of the Pentagon. His car started to rock as hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 veered and thrust toward its target.
"I'm looking at the silhouette and I said, 'Oh God,' " he recalled.

Wimbish, on 9/11 he was 51, and 10 years later at the time of the interview 61 , and Middleton, then 35, interviewed at the age of 45, arrived minutes after the crash, entered the Pentagon and began climbing and crawling through wreckage and collapsed building debris in a frantic search for survivors. (LT : I cleared up their ages in the by me italicized text line)

So to see, another NEW, NoC witness-discovery.

To veer = change course, in other words, Flight 77 BANKED in the 5th second before impact at column 14 !
In the official flightpath is no banking maneuver to find, according to the recovered FDR.
By the way, FDR's can be (partly) falsified/altered by inserting other known data values, known by flying such a trajectory at an earlier or later point in time, f.ex. with a drone with the same flight computer extensions on board, or by painstakingly altering the positional data by hand to a straight SoC flight path.
In the Flight 77 case, only the positional data for the last 5 seconds needed to be altered.

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