Fwd/Meme I received in re: Gun Control and Abortion Made a lot of sense to me.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Abortions don't kill people the same way guns don't kill people...your argument is getting to be as bad as the OP at this point.

Guns to kill people, real breathing, thinking, autonomous people with hopes and dreams. People die of gun shot wounds every day. Every day, people kill people with guns on purpose!

And here is where your argument breaks down. Let me know when a gun kills anything. Every day PEOPLE do kill people WITH guns. There has never been a single day or incident where a GUN killed a person.

Abortions are made to be lethal.

The very definition of abortion is:

the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

So lets compare that to the very definition of gun:

a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

Now....I see nothing mentioned in the definition of gun about termination or death, but I could be reading it incorrectly.

While I know that a weapon is used to inflict harm, the definition of gun has nothing about killing or death in it. A more valid argument, though still very misaligned would be for the OP to use the word weapon instead of gun.

a reply to: ketsuko

A person is born into the world.

Hmmm, so that's pretty arbitrary.

If I have a baby prematurely, then it's human, but if it's not born prematurely, it's not human until it is?

What's wrong with you? There's nothing arbitrary about birth. Every person is born, even premature people!

a reply to: Vasa Croe

And here is where your argument breaks down. Let me know when a gun kills anything.

Oh give me a break! I suppose bombs don't kill people! Drugs don't kill people! Cigarettes don't kill people!

Massive hyperbole!

a reply to: neo96

Check your inbox, clearly you didn't get the latest safety alert from the office of political correction and the subject was titled "Things to protest against when you are butt-hurt and losing".

Like I said, many times, "Death by a thousand cuts".

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: windword

If she didn't want to have that fetus, she shouldn't have behaved in such a way as to have it.

What people should have done or not done, is none of your business.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

That's right. It's up to the woman what her considerations are, not you, not me. If a woman wants to continue on with a Down Syndrome pregnancy, then she should have that choice. She should also have the choice to terminate her pregnancy. She doesn't have any moral duty to that fetus. She may, however have a moral duty to her exiting children and family.

Yet another breakdown in your argument. Here...let me replace your above statement with GUN and MAN:

That's right. It's up to the GUN what IT'S considerations are, not you, not me. If a GUN wants to continue on with a SITTING IN A SAFE, then IT should have that choice. IT should also have the choice to terminate IT'S PURCHASER/PEOPLE. IT doesn't have any moral duty to that PURCHASER/MAN. IT may, however have a moral duty to IT exiting children and family.

Now, I know that is not perfect, but you are comparing a womans decision to a guns decision.....interesting.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

No. We're comparing what a woman has to go through to get an abortion, compared to what a young man has to go through to get a gun.

Remember?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

And here is where your argument breaks down. Let me know when a gun kills anything.

Oh give me a break! I suppose bombs don't kill people! Drugs don't kill people! Cigarettes don't kill people!

Massive hyperbole!

They don't, unless used by, YOU GUESSED IT.....PEOPLE! Maybe we should have more abortions.....might make for less killings later in life!

Imagine how many mass killings we would have had all those abortions not happened....

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

No. We're comparing what a woman has to go through to get an abortion, compared to what a young man has to go through to get a gun.

Remember?

Yep I do remember.....again....a stupid comparison because it is drawing the conclusion that a young man buying a gun is doing it with the intent to kill.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: neo96

Check your inbox, clearly you didn't get the latest safety alert from the office of political correction and the subject was titled "Things to protest against when you are butt-hurt and losing".

Like I said, many times, "Death by a thousand cuts".

Uh since the site transfer my inbox stopped working.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

That's right, genius! We're talking about people's choices and their ability to access those choices! Not a gun's choice and not an embryo's choice!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

That's right, genius! We're talking about people's choices and their ability to access those choices! Not a gun's choice and not an embryo's choice!

Exactly. Now tell me again how buying a gun is the same as getting an abortion. Or maybe logically explain to me how a comparison can even be drawn?

Did you forget the comparison the OP source made to murder and the "killing a room full of people in seconds" quote?

This is a tiresome subject to discuss.

I'll add one last thing, and this is the last thing I will add to any gun-rights related thread today or in the future.

I believe every American has the right to defend their life, family and property, and every American has the right to own a firearm for personal defense.

Guns are tools only. But in the wrong hands they can result in carnage, as we have seen in the Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech massacres.

Before the inevitable comparisons of guns to cars, pencils, forks and spoons begin...let me just say one thing, when was the last time a pen misspelled 23 kids to death? Or when was the last time a fork killed 33 university students?

The fact that we didn't achieve any sort of change after the sandy hook massacre is enough for me to conclude that we will never fix this problem. We made our bed and now we must lay in it. Mass shootings have become as American as apple pie and baseball, some may take pride in that, but I won't.

If your rights end, when other's right's begin, then what do we tell the families of all those innocent kids massacred at Sandy Hook elementary that lost their right to watch their kids grow up as a result of our inadequate gun laws and mental health screenings?

Do your rights to own an AR-15 trump a parent's right to watch their kid grow up?

Sadly, I know what the answer to that question is among many, and it sickens me.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Sublimecraft

how can I fly like an eagle when I'm surrounded by turkeys"

Very carefully.

Want to hear something funny ?

Some eagles are an endangered species, and killing their eggs has up to a $250,000 fine, is a felony.

Shame human life doesn't rate the same.

Well said.

2nd.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Now tell me again how buying a gun is the same as getting an abortion.

Oh for heavens sake! Nobody has made such a claim! Go back and read the OP! It's about obstructing a woman's right to abortion, compared to (the potential fallout) of obstructing one's right to fire arms in the same ways!

How would you feel if you had to be subjected to the kinds of unrelated things that a woman has to go through to get a constitutionally protected abortion, to get a constitutionally protected gun?

a reply to: muse7

Do your rights to own an AR-15 trump a parent's right to watch their kid grow up?

That's what they called a FALSE Dilemma.

www.nizkor.org...

originally posted by: muse7
This is a tiresome subject to discuss.

I'll add one last thing, and this is the last thing I will add to any gun-rights related thread today or in the future.

I believe every American has the right to defend their life, family and property, and every American has the right to own a firearm for personal defense.

Guns are tools only. But in the wrong hands they can result in carnage, as we have seen in the Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech massacres.

Before the inevitable comparisons of guns to cars, pencils, forks and spoons begin...let me just say one thing, when was the last time a pen misspelled 23 kids to death? Or when was the last time a fork killed 33 university students?

The fact that we didn't achieve any sort of change after the sandy hook massacre is enough for me to conclude that we will never fix this problem. We made our bed and now we must lay in it. Mass shootings have become as American as apple pie and baseball, some may take pride in that, but I won't.

If your rights end, when other's right's begin, then what do we tell the families of all those innocent kids massacred at Sandy Hook elementary that lost their right to watch their kids grow up as a result of our inadequate gun laws and mental health screenings?

Do your rights to own an AR-15 trump a parent's right to watch their kid grow up?

Sadly, I know what the answer to that question is among many and it sickens me.

I actually agree with you on multiple points, the only one I don't is that guns are the issue. Sure, forks and pencils have not mass killed anyone, but neither has a gun. It is an inanimate object. Unless something is done about the people using these against others, violence will continue. Is one or two lives acceptable, but not 10 or 15? So what about the 1 or 2 or 5 that are killed with a knife or a bomb or a bat? Is that acceptable? Is it only when it is 10 or more that it becomes unacceptable?

Does owning a knife trump a parent's right to watch their kid grow up? Plenty of people have been killed by knives.

What is it about a mass killing that makes it unacceptable, but just a couple people killed makes it ok?

Just want to know where the line is drawn here so I can understand when, should it happen near me, I should consider it ok versus not ok.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Now tell me again how buying a gun is the same as getting an abortion.

Oh for heavens sake! Nobody has made such a claim! Go back and read the OP! It's about obstructing a woman's right to abortion, compared to (the potential fallout) of obstructing one's right to fire arms in the same ways!

How would you feel if you had to be subjected to the kinds of unrelated things that a woman has to go through to get a constitutionally protected abortion, to get a constitutionally protected gun?

I have read the OP many times now trying to figure out the valid comparison. It concludes with:

"I mean no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds right?"

So the OP article is saying that abortion is killing a person based on that claim. It is drawing a direct comparison of an abortion killing someone to a gun killing multiple people.

If you don't believe abortion is killing a person then you can't argue that guns are either. Unless guns are used in abortion I guess....

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm sorry that the point is so illusive for you. But, I'm not going to wast any more of my energy trying to help you understand it. It's either over your head, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm sorry that the point is so illusive for you. But, I'm not going to wast any more of my energy trying to help you understand it. It's either over your head, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

It's not illusive at all. The point is non-existent. The comparisons drawn are apples to oranges and the author really should not have tried to make it. Buying a gun versus getting an abortion are two completely different topics. One terminates a Potential Person, the other sits in a lonely safe most of the time.

Now, if EVERY gun purchased was used in the killing of a human I could understand the comparison, but abortions are not used to terminate anything but Potential People.

No need to waste any more of your time. I am likely very obtuse and plenty of things are over my head....