9/11 Bombshell: Methodical Deception -- Rebekah Roth

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

NOT like some blokes passport in his pocket in an intense fireball that managed to vaporise everyone EXCEPT his passport

You refuse to accept that people take things out of their pockets when they get on planes.
Here are the most common things left on planes.
Passports are #7 on the list.

Book: 18 percent
Mobile phone: 9 percent
Magazine or newspaper: 8 percent
Clothes: 8 percent
Glasses or sunglasses: 8 percent
Headphones: 6 percent
Passport or identity documents: 5 percent
Camera: 3 percent
iPad: 3 percent
Food: 3 percent

Plus if I were expecting to be involved in a physical activity like over powering male passengers, I'de empty my pockets.

a reply to: samkent

Yup first thing a hijacker is gonna do is "oops hang on folks with you in a minute just gonna empty my pockets of this uncomfortable restrictive little passport onto the seat back table here then I'll get on with the hijack"

yes you're right I do refuse to believe such rubbish. I refuse to believe that in a situation where it has been accepted that the plane its contents and victims were vaporised and only tiny bone fragments ever found at best, that a damn passport relatively untouched conveniently showing name and photograph, was found on top of the entire pile of debris and not just any old passport but a passport belonging to an alleged hijacker and you don't believe that's all to convenient? too pat? Fine fair enough
its ok you win I lose, you're right I'm wrong, I can live with that its not the end of my world

a reply to: hellobruce

I never said steel girders were melted that is not my belief whatsoever...I was referring to and reiterating the persistent statement of the melted and weakened steel girders from the OS story

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Why was this passport not vaporized during a fiery airline accident in Nepal?

PHoto: Dollar Bill and Passport Survive Fiery Airline Crash in Nepal

We also have these items that survived the crash of United 93.

PHoto: Recovered ID from United 93

Photo: Crew Logbook from United 93

We also have passenger manifest to go by as well. For an example, here is the passenger manifest for American 11.

American 11 Passenger Manifest Page 1

American 11 Passenger Manifest Page 2

The passport issue is moot by the fact we know who were onboard the 9/11 aircraft and by the fact we got the voices of the 9/11 hijackers on ATC communication tapes.

In this video, begin at time line 3:35.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport. Uh, no, you dont tuck notebooks away inside pressure suits.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Photo: Recoved Driver License

Flight 93 victims' effects to go back to families

Those items, such as a wedding ring and other jewelry, photos, credit cards, purses and their contents, shoes, a wallet and currency, are among seven boxes of identified personal effects salvaged from the site.

old.post-gazette.com...

The issue of why the passport was undamaged is a diversion. It's NOT the problem. Of course there is a chance it could have escaped being burnt. The real issue you are all missing is the unlikelihood of a passport coming to land on top of a pile of rubble conveniently so that it would be easy to find after half a million tons of steel and concrete had crashed all around! For many, it is as suspicious as Mohammed Atta's will being found in his luggage. Because the flight from Portland to Boston had been delayed, his bags did not make it onto Flight 11 and were later recovered in Logan International Airport. Now, why on earth would he intend to take his will with him knowing that it would be destroyed on the plane along with him when he flew it into the North Tower? He would have left it behind in the safe custody of friends. No, it was far more likely that the real or fake passport was planted in his luggage at the airport when his bags got left behind so as to provide bogus evidence that he really got on the plane (there is of course no evidence that he ever did, e.g., no Arab names on the passenger manifest). It would have easy to forge his handwriting and a passport in his name. Even if it really was his genuine will, now known to have been written on April 11, 1996, when he was feeling angry about Israel's attack on Lebanon in Operation Grapes of Wrath, it does not prove he was on Flight 11.

So you are all arguing about the wrong aspect of the passport. It's the fact that it was found so easily, not that it was unburnt, that is suspicious, together with the puzzle why someone intent on suicide would take his will with him rather than leave it behind for friends to find after his death! Remember: Atta took his will with him and it would have gone on board Flight 11 had his earlier flight not been delayed, so that his bags never made it to the fatal flight (something he could have never anticipated).

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
I was referring to and reiterating the persistent statement of the melted and weakened steel girders from the OS story

You really are very confused, it is only silly truthers that claim steel melted, not what actually happened.

a reply to: micpsi

I see Arab names on the manifests.

911research.wtc7.net...
911research.wtc7.net...
911research.wtc7.net...
911research.wtc7.net...

There were no Arab names on the victims list that was released but they were on the actual manifest.

a reply to: micpsi

the unlikelihood of a passport coming to land on top of a pile of rubble conveniently so that it would be easy to find after half a million tons of steel and concrete had crashed all around!

If I recall correctly the passport was found and recovered before the buildings came down.

Suqami's passport was found by a passerby (identity unknown), reportedly in the vicinity of Vesey Street,[8] before the towers collapsed.[9] (This was mistakenly reported by many news outlets to be Mohamed Atta's passport.)

Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

“On Albany Street, two blocks south of WTC 2, Two men examine a seat cushion from AA Flight 11. 8:52 a.m”.

There is ample proof that flammable items do survive fiery crashes.
Lets no forget the picture from the Germanwings crash either.

a reply to: hellobruce

And there we go again with the veiled truther insult. I have never said steel girders melted because I don't believe for one moment they did and neither do the majority of A & E for 9/11 Truth who I will believe over you or anyone else on an internet forum because like it or not those people are the experts not you not me. We can only regurgitate what we read and see. We don't have the knowledge or expertise to do otherwise and certainly don't have the access required to ascertain absolute truth.

I'm not returning to this thread now, its run its course and is now going round in circles but I thank the mods for letting it run and grateful for the debate itself

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

We see plane parts fly out the far side of the building.
They found body parts on the ground before the collapse.
You can see pictures and video of both.
Why not a passport?

A better question might be "why not other passports and identification papers from others onboard?"

a reply to: micpsi

Another related question would be: "If I were planning to hijack a plane out of Boston early on a Tuesday morning, why on earth would I drive past Boston up to Portland? Why would I take the chance of early morning fog in Maine, or a mechanical issue with the commuter plane, or any other issues, drive past Boston up to Portland?"

It's a pretty stupid move.

The rental car in Portland was just a plant of evidence to support the silly story.

a reply to: Salander

A better question might be "why not other passports and identification papers from others onboard?"

There were other items but the conspiracy crowd focuses on the passport.

a reply to: micpsi

The issue of why the passport was undamaged is a diversion. It's NOT the problem. Of course there is a chance it could have escaped being burnt.

The passport issue is moot. Passports and paper items are known to survive airplane crashes.

The real issue you are all missing is the unlikelihood of a passport coming to land on top of a pile of rubble conveniently so that it would be easy to find after half a million tons of steel and concrete had crashed all around!

Are you implying that someone had placed that passport in order to make everyone believe that the hijacker was aboard American 11? If anyone wanted to determine if the hijacker was aboard American 11, all they had to do was to check the passenger manifest of American 11.

American 11 Passenger Manifest Page 1

American 11 Passenger Manifest Page 2

In addition, we have the ATC communication tape that determined that Atta, whose name appears on the American 11 passenger manifest, was in the cockpit of American 11.



In case you missed it, al-Qaeda named the 9/11 hijackers as well.

a reply to: Salander

Another related question would be: "If I were planning to hijack a plane out of Boston early on a Tuesday morning, why on earth would I drive past Boston up to Portland? Why would I take the chance of early morning fog in Maine, or a mechanical issue with the commuter plane, or any other issues, drive past Boston up to Portland?"

Conjecture was that was an attempt to throw off any suspicion - having 5 Arabs show up at same time
for same flight might trigger response by security

True was a risk that might be delayed in Portland, but apparently thought was worth it

Weather that day was "severe clear" with unlimited visibility

a reply to: firerescue

These guys were so skilled and planned so thoroughly that they defeated NORAD and the USAF. They were smart fellers, we were told, highly trained.

When planning a military mission such as that, one must minimize the chances for things to go wrong. Driving past your intended target (BOS) is just asking for something to go wrong. Any mechanical failure, any auto accident, and a host of other possibilities are invited by such a dumb move.

Why must all 5 arabs walk in together?

The stupid drive to Maine was put in the story for only one reason--to tell the story, complete with flight manuals and other documentation that could be "found" in the rental car.

a reply to: Salander

Defeating NORAD and the AF from inside the US was easy at the time. There were almost no armed fighters to cover the entire continental US, and NORAD radar relied almost entirely on FAA radars. They were still geared towards looking out, not defeating a threat internally.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes, of course it was. Vigilant Guardian was in full swing that morning, as intended.

a reply to: Salander

Irrelevant to the response. The Alert Force wasn't part of it. They don't keep armed fighters sitting around on every base waiting. It takes at least 90 minutes from a cold start to get a minimum weapons load mounted.

Alert aircraft are never part of an exercise. Their entire purpose is to respond to suspicious aircraft or possible threats. On 9/11 there were four armed aircraft in the northeast. There were only a maximum of 21 available for all of the continental US. And that was if all seven bases had their maximum of four aircraft prepped.

As soon as the FAA requested assistance NORAD dropped out of the exercise, but they were still relying on FAA radar for their information.