UK net migration hits record high of 330,000 this year

a reply to: Rocker2013

/headdesk

Anyone who contributes should be more entitled to those who don't.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

You are correct , I apologise.

a reply to: Rocker2013

One immigrant let it slip that if he went to Germany he could not get his wife, kids and family in there, however the UK would take the lot, once he had his feet under the table here with some pittance of a job he was OK - so the UK is his destination. What can one say, I didn't know that some countries will only accept workers not families but it answers a lot of questions we don't get the facts about and so don't think to ask about.

My son works for the NHS and says its crumbling under the numbers of foreigners wanting health care - my other son can't get his little girl into their local school because its full up and yes, a lot of foreign little kiddies have got in there. But never mind, her Mum can do 2 bus rides to another totally inconvenient school whilst we let in foreigners and treat ourselves as second class citizens.

I did see one thing though that makes this whole situation positively evil. A young 18 year old man had heroically pushed his elderly grandmother from Afganistan in a wheelchair to Hungary and was crossing into Europe there. He had carried her part of the way when he couldn't wheel the chair. His English was very good also. I just wish we could accept those who genuinely need to leave their country's.

But the answer is to stop the politics that have made up ISIS, get rid of them fast and invest and rebuild the countries these immigrants are coming from. But somehow we are all expected to believe that the Americans, Israelis and Europeans and other interested parties etc can't actually deal with ISIS even with our amazing technology and bombing capacity - if you believe that, then you are buying to a few greedy warmongers bulls--t. Its the latter we need rid of.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Im sorry Rocker, I commend you for your humanitarian point a view and desire to free the oppressed, but your views are those of a PC mad, nanny, namby pamby, Modern view, weakling........no offence btw.

You state that any native British person, ok whitey, who objects to, what is turning out to be an invasion, is a tribal bigot, racist etc etc.
You do realise, that it is this Very Tribal attitude that has gotten the Middle East in the problem that it is currently in and has had for the past few thousand years. The Whole of the Middle East region is Tribal,....they ALL hate each other.
There is some view by whiteys that the black man of Africa is one big happy family, that hold hands and kiss in the morning.
The Fact is the WHOLE of Africa is tribal, and EACH Black fella and his tribe, HATES the next....the Tutu Hate the Bantu, The Swahili hate the bushman, the Ning Nongs Hate the Bing Bongs etc etc.

Why would Any British native of European extraction, Not be concerned about a flood of people, from the Wrong tribes?

Its all very fine to sit in your Whitey World and say "welcome all".........If these Nth Africans wanted a better life, why didnt they go south, to the land of plenty...South Africa.... where many white fellas live in big fine houses with big fine cars. Why dont the Middle Eastern people...the "Refugees", travel only a few miles to other rich ME countries, like Saudi Arabia, and Dubai, the UAE, where other Arab people live in Fine houses with clean water and big cars......

Why did these people avoid the obvious choices and decide to travel 1000 miles to to cold, damp, wet, whitey place like Europe, especially England, instead of the most obvious....their next door neighbour???

Please Id really like to know.

It would'nt be because whitey is a soft touch, and gives them everything for free, would it?.....No surely not, they are noble people.

FYI, I live in Australia, a continent "Colonised" by the British after they were told to exit the American colonies.
You know its only been since 1788 when the new tribe arrived, and in that 200 or so years that the "Invasion" took place, the local Koorie/Nunga people, have HATED white man ever since.....they tolerate us, but absolutely Hate that their country and culture was taken away from them......even right up to this day.

(Note the American and Canadian native feel the same)

Yet, you expect the British Native, to take it and live with it, lay down and bear it, only after a few years.

I can understand the anger of the Native, because I live in a Country with it all the time.......thanks to my British ancestors......so please contemplate that cousin (if you are a British Native that is)

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: 3danimator2014

You are correct , I apologise.

No problemo!

Just to add, You do know that the Romans colonised.....sorry Invaded Britain in 55 BC and then again in 43 AD and stayed till 410AD.......
IN that time, there was almost a constant battle with the "Native British Tribes" against the Romans, tho note some tribes gave in, thru force and bribery.......but by and large they Romans were hated by the "Natives".
For 400 years!!!!!.....Longer than Whiteys have been in Nth America.
There are many famous battles, I understand Boudicca lost 80,000 natives in one battle...the last one.

Of course many Britons were assimilated ......I got this uddy Roman (just like Julius) nose from somewhere, I dids, to prove it , China.

originally posted by: MrCrow
a reply to: Rocker2013

/headdesk

Anyone who contributes should be more entitled to those who don't.

Again that logic only follows if, as somebody suggested earlier, you view social security contributions as an extension of your own personal savings account.

In actuality the Welfare State was set up exactly CONTRARY to your statement.

Those who are unable to contribute are EXACTLY the most entitled.

Under your method you would give free prescriptions to the waged and the unwaged would have to pay for them. Does that sound like a sustainable system to you?

a reply to: ComplexCassandra

This ... This exactly...

Have a pint on me!

a reply to: ComplexCassandra

I would argue the difference being, these immigrants, this massive influx of 300k+ people who were not already domiciled in the UK and part of the economic system, will create a substantial burdon on us; "us" being those in the system, being it working or not.

Again, where does that ££ come from to pay for their housing and food? Govt funding. Where does that come from? Us, the tax paying UK people. My argument ISNT against paying for taxes or paying for benefits for people in the UK.

It's against paying for those who are *not* residents of the UK. Why should we have to cover that bill?

People are misconstruing those of us who are against the influx of migrants and paying for them, by implying we're against our system of social welfare and comparing it to "hand outs". We're not and it's not the same thing.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: gortex

Most days.... this feels like Eastern Europe, other days it feels like the mid-east!

Oh Yea London, What hast thou become?

I have lived in London for 25 years and i can tell you i have never felt this way...but then, im not scared of foreigners. Maybe you shoudl relax.

Feels like the mid east? What a stupid thing to say. Stop reading the Daily Mail mate.

Go to central London, see for yourself...

as for eastern europeans, well.... if after 25 years of living here you havent realized what is happening, im afraid you never will!

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: ComplexCassandra

I would argue the difference being, these immigrants, this massive influx of 300k+ people who were not already domiciled in the UK and part of the economic system, will create a substantial burdon on us; "us" being those in the system, being it working or not.

Again, where does that ££ come from to pay for their housing and food? Govt funding. Where does that come from? Us, the tax paying UK people. My argument ISNT against paying for taxes or paying for benefits for people in the UK.

It's against paying for those who are *not* residents of the UK. Why should we have to cover that bill?

People are misconstruing those of us who are against the influx of migrants and paying for them, by implying we're against our system of social welfare and comparing it to "hand outs". We're not and it's not the same thing.

This assumes that the 300K immigrants to this country all go straight on benefits. Outside the most lurid fantasies of such gutter rags as the Daily Mail etc. that really isn't the case, though, is it?

I currently work in Leeds and I get an immigrant taxi driver taking me to the train station. There are heaps of immigrants commuting to work on the train alongside me and, from the sounds of the announcers on the train, there are some very recently arrived immigrants working on Virgin Trains East Coast. I grab my lunch from a shop run by immigrants. I pass more immigrants in suits and hi-vis clothing in the streets on my way to the office. There are immigrants working in the same building as my company.

Now I am sure you could argue that were I to go to a local benefits office I would see immigrants there too. And just as in the workplace I will also see non-immigrants. I don't deny there are immigrants on benefits but I also don't need to pretend that immigrants don't contribute to our economy either. I try to address reality and not allow myself to get blinded by hysteria.

It's an inconvenient fact of life for many but it is true to say that just as there are non-immigrants contributing to the welfare payments, the housing and food, of immigrants there are also immigrants contributing to the welfare payments, housing and food, of non-immigrants. The idea that we are being flooded with nothing but benefits-scroungers is just the stuff of tabloid sensationalism. Who the hell would risk life and limb to spend their lives on the dole? Have you BEEN to a jobcentre lately? Those people are vile in the extreme.

I understand that with the current recession things are tight. In such circumstances we are oh so prone to look to blame others for our hardships. A quick look at history shows this to frequently be the case. Traditionally I believe it was customary to single out the Jews as being the demographic scapegoat for all society's evils. Today, however, I think they have wised up to that and now exert a greater influence over modern media sources so this time it's somebody else's head in the firing line.

It isn't the immigrant's fault we are all skint. If you want to know where all your money went look around. It isn't the immigrants sitting on piles of wealth, now, is it? How convenient, then, that when we are feeling our most frustrated, our most belligerent, we don't aim that ire at the causes of our misery but instead try to scapegoat others of our ilk.

Yes we are facing austerity measures in the UK but NO the immigrants aren't the reason. The cause is a little further up the social ladder than that.

originally posted by: ComplexCassandra

I currently work in Leeds and I get an immigrant taxi driver taking me to the train station. There are heaps of immigrants commuting to work on the train alongside me and, from the sounds of the announcers on the train, there are some very recently arrived immigrants working on Virgin Trains East Coast. I grab my lunch from a shop run by immigrants. I pass more immigrants in suits and hi-vis clothing in the streets on my way to the office. There are immigrants working in the same building as my company.

For heavens sake just spit it out........................ We are being over run

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: ComplexCassandra

I currently work in Leeds and I get an immigrant taxi driver taking me to the train station. There are heaps of immigrants commuting to work on the train alongside me and, from the sounds of the announcers on the train, there are some very recently arrived immigrants working on Virgin Trains East Coast. I grab my lunch from a shop run by immigrants. I pass more immigrants in suits and hi-vis clothing in the streets on my way to the office. There are immigrants working in the same building as my company.

For heavens sake just spit it out........................ We are being over run

Well I guess I asked for that.

Gotta say you made me laugh aloud with that one.

Thanks, man, I needed that!

a reply to: ComplexCassandra

Yeah, I was reading down your post and it made me smile, everyone's an immigrant.......... was waiting for "Santa came down the chimney and he was an immigrant" or something similar.

Thats the consequence of trying to force your dollars to be valued over seas.

The instability in the target nations beckons outward migration.

Break down a nation, rebuild it and force them to owe back loans of your currency. Thats what feeds the current machine. Both domestic and abroad. Beat their people and subject them to slave labor when they arrive at your doorstep.

Their country is a plantation for labor guaranteed by impossible to repay loans.

The average person doesnt understand this is going on though.

When a currency devalues due to monetary policy, you build it back up by means of war. This system is totally not sustainable with any amount of decency as a goal and only runs on human flesh.

The disparity is real, and the tragedy even more so.
And whether or not we can begin to ween ourselves onto changes to the system that starts to see the benefits to be had from the products of this thousand year "game", hinges on the action and legislation the fiat homes have power to make and should be made to design systems to hinge the world onto a new machine where human cost and cost to freedom aren't the first prices to pay- Or even on the list of likely offerings to the great machine that holds up the nails of many of us and our qualities of life.

I feel like our system is facing a real test right now.

a reply to: ComplexCassandra

Ok, I agree and should have been more clear. You are correct, 300k+ immigrants will NOT all suddenly appear and demand handouts. Yes, that was a bit of an over generalisation on my part.

However, there is still an assumption that whatever that figure is, the UK will foot the bill. And my point being, that money isn't just lying around spare and I would hazard a guess that significantly less than a majority of the UK tax paying community support them.

I 100% support my country's social and emergency services and have no issue with my taxes for schooling, roads, national insurance, NHS, etc. I just feel really p**sed off that I bust myself working very hard for what wages i get, to pay all that, my mortgage and bills and somehow support my family... only to have its valued lessened because money that should be spent on the UK *for* the UK, is potentially going to pay for refugees and migrants entering our country.

What's the solution? I don't have one. All i know is, I can see how their large influx *will* impact my daily life and I don't like.

a reply to: noonebutme

I wholly understand your frustration and, I guess, I should feel most lucky that I don't share it.

Or maybe I do. I know I do feel a constant sense of annoyance, an anger that is always so close beneath the surface that I have to spend a great deal of effort keeping it under control. The difference is, I believe, that I don't attribute the source of that to the same thing.

I attribute it to the impotence I have when it comes to stopping my nation from creating refugees in the first place. I attribute it to the fact that I can see blatant attempts by certain parties to manipulate our thought-trains so as to be supportive of ever increasing draconian measures. I get increasingly desperate when I see people committing unthinkable acts and claiming to do it IN MY NAME. For my benefit. I see the victims of those atrocities being demonised for attempting to defend themselves and I see my fellow countrymen being branded with horrific terminology if they so much as speak out in protest. I see the reasons we have a refugee and migrant crisis and I know that a large part of that reason is my nation's doing. All propaganda aside, we Brits don't have a glowing history, really, now do we?

So maybe it is a bit of shame on my part that drives my attitude of tolerance towards their plight, I don't know. All I do know is that I don't aim MY frustration at the victims, I reserve that for the perpetrators.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: ComplexCassandra

Ok, I agree and should have been more clear. You are correct, 300k+ immigrants will NOT all suddenly appear and demand handouts. Yes, that was a bit of an over generalisation on my part.

However, there is still an assumption that whatever that figure is, the UK will foot the bill. And my point being, that money isn't just lying around spare and I would hazard a guess that significantly less than a majority of the UK tax paying community support them.

I 100% support my country's social and emergency services and have no issue with my taxes for schooling, roads, national insurance, NHS, etc. I just feel really p**sed off that I bust myself working very hard for what wages i get, to pay all that, my mortgage and bills and somehow support my family... only to have its valued lessened because money that should be spent on the UK *for* the UK, is potentially going to pay for refugees and migrants entering our country.

What's the solution? I don't have one. All i know is, I can see how their large influx *will* impact my daily life and I don't like.

[I hope you don't mind me jumping in here guys!]

That's assuming there is a 'bill' of course. The fiscal impact of migrants has been argued time and time again but there are so many factors to take into account that the stats vary wildly.

Personally I feel migrants contribute more than they take in the grand scheme of things. Most want to come here to work and make a better life for themselves, many are educated to a high standard (at the cost of their birth country) when they arrive. We may foot the bill for their kids while they are young but they are more likely to do well at school and in turn become net contributors to our economy. And of course it goes beyond just economics.

Having said that, with regards to refugees/asylum seekers, I don't really care if my tax does have to go towards supporting them, they are human beings who are desperate for help. Not to mention in many cases the West have been complicit in the cause.

a reply to: Scouse100

I could not possibly agree more with what you have just said.

You have a firm grasp of the responsibility we have as a powerful and monied nation, toward those who have suffered as a result of our success, and toward human beings in need as a general case as well. It is good to see opinions such as this voiced here, for I think that humanitarian issues get placed behind the economic issues in terms of importance all too often, which is a grand error in my view.

Jolly good show!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Absolutely and