Could abortion be considered a double standard?

a reply to: muse7

I see the unborn baby as a human that should be afforded every and all rights as any other human.

No religion in my argument or stance on the subject.

But to each his own. I've no need to expand on my stance any further.

a reply to: hutch622

For the lulz!

The law doesn't work that way. You can't mutually agree to not be responsible.

For clarity: you might create such an agreement. You might even get it notarized. But the minute the custodial parent runs into trouble, goes on food stamps, unemployment, etc, that agreement is as worthless as this argument.

i think its odd when people refer to the fetus as a "clump of cells", that suddenly become intact lungs and intact hearts when PP is selling those parts for profit.

but thats none of my business *sips tea*

a reply to: kaylaluv

I understand your point, though the example you give is a little off. The main concern here is also the outcome of the potential life.

If the boot was on the other foot and it was the male who carried the child, what would you want? If you unintentally got a man prenant and didn't want to keep the child and they did, how would that make you feel?

originally posted by: WanderingSage
More like obsessed with true equality regardless of gender, religion, or race.

"True equality" (being the SAME) does not exist between genders. Equal treatment under the law is what women want.

Women incubate and birth the baby. Men cannot do that. There's only so much "true equality" that can exist there.

Also, you speak as if it's no big deal to demand that a woman go through the nine months of gestation (which can cause many physical issues) and childbirth. Childbirth is life threatening. My niece died as a result of her childbirth, leaving her young husband to raise their infant alone. Undertaking that should be the woman's choice. Not yours. You have no right to put her into a position to risk her life.

Only if men could have babies too, would there be the possibility of true equality in pregnancy and childbirth. It is "fair"? No. Life isn't fair sometimes. And you can bet, if men could have babies, abortion would be easily accessible, and covered by all insurance policies, government-funded or not.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

That being said, if he is against having the child and she decides to anyway, there should be no strings for him, and she bears that responsibility.

Precisely, however this is not the case. And it also fails to account for the emotional factors. How would you like to be forced to live in a world where you know you have a child, if you didn't want it.

To expand on this example; I love the idea of having a family, however now is not the right time for me. I would not want to bring a child into my world right now, due to financial circumstances, etc. (all part of the example, of course). Thus, the thought of brining a child into a world where I did not initially want said child would emotionally burdon me. I would not want to just simply "forget about the child", as this is not an option.

Where does this leave a male.. there are no alternative options. Especially if the mother wanted nothing to do with the father.. I wouldn't want a child to be brought into a broken world.

What are your suggestions in this situation?

originally posted by: WanderingSage
Okay until you can do everything a man does that a woman can't (several things). Accept your secondary position in the biological world. But you wont because you guys fight until physical tests are made easier so you can pass. Like army PT tests, ranger school, firefighter obstacle courses, and many more.

I totally agree with you here. If it's not about having babies, and women want equality, they should pass the EXACT same tests.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: muse7

I see the unborn baby as a human that should be afforded every and all rights as any other human.

No religion in my argument or stance on the subject.

But to each his own. I've no need to expand on my stance any further.

So you're for forcing women to give birth to a child she doses not want to give birth to? Even in cases of rape and incest?

originally posted by: L.A.B
a reply to: ~Lucidity

That being said, if he is against having the child and she decides to anyway, there should be no strings for him, and she bears that responsibility.

Precisely, however this is not the case. And it also fails to account for the emotional factors. How would you like to be forced to live in a world where you know you have a child, if you didn't want it.

To expand on this example; I love the idea of having a family, however now is not the right time for me. I would not want to bring a child into my world right now, due to financial circumstances, etc (all part of the example, of course). Thus, the thought of brining a child into the world I did not initially want would emotionally burdon me.

What are your suggestions in this situation?

Again, it goes back to how well you know who you sleep with, and that is my suggestion on both counts. And if by chance you do that and it happens anyway, then you just accept and cope, just as you have to cope with a lot of other things in life that have left or were never in your control.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Heretic, if men could become pregnant too, there'd be an abortion clinic on every street corner.

In fact, there'd likely be a Cabinet level Secretary of Birth Control, and free contraceptives sent in the mail, available at Post Offices, etc.

There would certainly be zero questions about when "life begins" ... it would begin when the baby can get a job and carry it's own weight, pull itself up by it's own bootstraps, and the rest of the nonsensical BS mantras they spout.

In my opinion.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: muse7

I see the unborn baby as a human that should be afforded every and all rights as any other human.

No religion in my argument or stance on the subject.

But to each his own. I've no need to expand on my stance any further.

So you're for forcing women to give birth to a child she doses not want to give birth to? Even in cases of rape and incest?

I did not force any woman to have sex. And procreation is the only way a woman can become pregnant.

Rape and incest?

Interesting topics on their own. Did the unborn child choose the manner in which he/she was created?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Agreed

That is the simple solution I suppose and the one we shall all have to settle with.

Then in regards to the whole males having to contribute scenario, if there was a disagreement between two partners it should go to court, or at least notify the courts before birth if one of the couple had a disagreement on the outcome. That way they cannot be held accountable for support in cases of entrapment.

Also my apologies, I had to edit the post you replied to after you had replied.

Crux of the irrational argument: fertilized egg (blastocyst), embryo, fetus equals "unborn human."

This is "political correctness" taken to a ridiculous extreme.

By the same logic, preventing a pregnancy (via contraception) is also "murder" because those little ova and sperm all "deserve a chance" to come together.

Monty Python considered the subject once upon a time: "Every Sperm is Sacred" ... check out the video if you want to see the ultimate result of the majority of "pro-life" sentiment.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Crux of the irrational argument: fertilized egg (blastocyst), embryo, fetus equals "unborn human."

This is "political correctness" taken to a ridiculous extreme.

By the same logic, preventing a pregnancy (via contraception) is also "murder" because those little ova and sperm all "deserve a chance" to come together.

Monty Python considered the subject once upon a time: "Every Sperm is Sacred" ... check out the video if you want to see the ultimate result of the majority of "pro-life" sentiment.

They're not really "pro-life" though.

We should begin to call them what they really are, which is anti-choice

example - woman becomes pregnant by a one night stand, she decides to keep the child, she gives birth and hunts the father down to get child support, because it took 2 to make that baby and he is just as responsible for its creation as she is.

example 2 -same scenario except the woman decides shes going to have an abortion, man doesnt want her to do that, suddenly "my body my decision, you have no rights"

There certainly is a level of double standards, in one instance the man is half responsible for the child, the second example he has no rights or say even though he is still half responsible for that child.

a reply to: muse7

Yeah, I know. I should really say pro "Life" at best.

Or is it "pro" Life?

or maybe "pro" cellular existence "anti" actual human life?

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: muse7

I see the unborn baby as a human that should be afforded every and all rights as any other human.

No religion in my argument or stance on the subject.

But to each his own. I've no need to expand on my stance any further.

So you're for forcing women to give birth to a child she doses not want to give birth to? Even in cases of rape and incest?

I did not force any woman to have sex. And procreation is the only way a woman can become pregnant.

Rape and incest?

Interesting topics on their own. Did the unborn child choose the manner in which he/she was created?

Simple answer would have been a simple "yes"

Personally I find your stance on forcing women to bear the child of a rapist or a molester, disgusting.

But to each their own.

I'm sure you'll continue beating the drum of morality.

The legal concept of paternity regards the support of an actual human being.

Abortion does not regard the life of a human being.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: muse7

I see the unborn baby as a human that should be afforded every and all rights as any other human.

No religion in my argument or stance on the subject.

But to each his own. I've no need to expand on my stance any further.

So you're for forcing women to give birth to a child she doses not want to give birth to? Even in cases of rape and incest?

I did not force any woman to have sex. And procreation is the only way a woman can become pregnant.

Rape and incest?

Interesting topics on their own. Did the unborn child choose the manner in which he/she was created?

Simple answer would have been a simple "yes"

Personally I find your stance on forcing women to bear the child of a rapist or a molester, disgusting.

But to each their own.

I'm sure you'll continue beating the drum of morality.

And I find the callous murder of an unborn child equally disgusting.

Quid pro quo.

a reply to: L.A.B

Life can be messy, can't it?

My step-daughter accidentally got pregnant in college. The father didn't want a child. She decided to have the baby. Rather than force him to contribute to a child he didn't want, she agreed to absolve him of any financial responsibility, HOWEVER, she made him sign an agreement that he had no rights to the child, nor could he EVER initiate contact with the child, even after she turned 18. He signed it. I don't know if she has any case in court if he decides to go ahead and contact the child as an adult, and she can't stop her daughter from initiating contact with the father, but I know she plans on showing the agreement to her daughter, so she knows that he agreed to have no part in her life, ever.

The happy news is that she married a terrific guy who has been a wonderful father to the child. The adoption process has just become final, so he is now legally her father, as well as emotionally.