Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Feel free to construct sentences that make sense.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
mutations are unnatural yet still accommodated by design and still confined to its limitations...

Huh? Are we making this up as we go along? Most mutations are natural. They are changes in DNA code that don't require outside interference. They happen every single time an organism is conceived. You really outta read up on how evolution works before trying to explain it like that.

Just can't be possible for somebody who blinds themselves what's beyond me is the absolute inability to perceive truth because you hate the idea of a creator or God...

Again, with the accusations of hate. Why can't you stick to the evidence? You believe in god out of FAITH. You BELIEVE it's truth. It is not FACT, and it speaks volumes that you can't even consider an alternative view to your religion or that other people don't place their faith in the same place. Sorry if this bugs you, but just because you believe it to be truth, doesn't mean it is. Why can't you admit it's your opinion?

It's a blue print are you really so blind even defects hold true to the constructs because the finger is shorter than normal big deal the phalanges still follow the rule so you are just plain wrong and yes inept...

What rule? Why the insults? Why can't you explain it in terms that make sense? "defects hold true to the constructs"??? Please stop speaking in metaphors. Lay it all out for us with precise examples.

Try again, but make sense this time, and nix the insults. Thanks.

a reply to: Barcs

How is a mutation which is bound by the same design proof against its existence???

its only further proof of the same...

wtf are you rambling on about evolution for? don't you know that that it is further proof...

are you arguing for me or against me you may have convinced some knucklehead of your position but you are really giving examples to prove my argument...

Done with talking to the short bus guys...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
How is a mutation which is bound by the same design proof against its existence???

What does that even mean? I'm not trying to prove your god wrong. I just don't agree with your standards of proof.

"Mutation which is bound by the same design" - Nonsensical statement.

"its only further proof of the same... " - nonsensical statement.

You haven't proven anything.

are you arguing for me or against me you may have convinced some knucklehead of your position but you are really giving examples to prove my argument...

Done with talking to the short bus guys...

Your arguments make zero sense and all you do is insult people that disagree. I guess this conversation is over. Keep preaching, buddy. Maybe some sucker will buy it.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Barcs

How is a mutation which is bound by the same design proof against its existence???

its only further proof of the same...

wtf are you rambling on about evolution for? don't you know that that it is further proof...

are you arguing for me or against me you may have convinced some knucklehead of your position but you are really giving examples to prove my argument...

Done with talking to the short bus guys...

Post like this should be able to be reported and removed, surely. There is so much abuse on this forum, disguised as literal oneupmanship.

You are accusing someone of a mental disability because they don't agree with you. Are you absolutely sure you don't want to take that back?

Edited to add that this is written by someone who is evidently religious! Someone who believes in God and possibly follows the laws and advice of Jesus. That is one wonderful example.

a reply to: Barcs

You are wrong the code is everywhere...

but you chose to insult me first with your ignorance, and ya you argued for me instead of against me that's how wrong you are...

And you and those who agree with your arguments know just as little as you...

Whatever your loss,too bad for you...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I knew this would come in handy again


PS, I don't believe in God. If God decides to show everyone that God is real, which God should be able to being omniscient and omnipotent, then I'll believe.

Till then, enjoy believing in your flying spaghetti monster.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Barcs

How is a mutation which is bound by the same design proof against its existence???

Proof against what's existence? god's??

it isn't - nor is it proof FOR god.

its only further proof of the same...

The same what?

wtf are you rambling on about evolution for? don't you know that that it is further proof...

the basis of evolution shows how evidence can be used to construct an argument to support a conclusion - you could try doing the same if you had any actual evidence.

are you arguing for me or against me you may have convinced some knucklehead of your position but you are really giving examples to prove my argument...

I don't see how - but if there are arguments that "prove" your position why is it that YOU haven't given them??

Done with talking to the short bus guys...

see ya - don't let he door hit your arse on the way out.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Barcs

Ok now you are being simple instead of doing some research and learning something you ask me for proof, instead I ask you to show me the faults in my examples...

You can't alter the examples I have given and that is the proof...

Why would anyone "alter" the examples you give??

You examples have certainly been shown to not be the "proof" you claim - there is no "alteration" required to do that.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

I saw him as stating a fact - hence I ask for evidence.

I do TRY to keep an open mind about the possibility of evidence........but it is sometimes difficult!

Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?

Your premise would have more merit if you had some scientific backing to what can't even really be considered a theory. Our best scientists are quite far from understanding even the basics of the universe. And yet.. you claim to know all the scientific facts regarding the same?

Unless you can provide some data that can be proved with scientific fact, you are guessing. And guessing as you probably well know, is not proof. I'm not saying there is not a grand creator / all powerful force that controls the universe as we know it. I am saying you have no proof of it based on your faulty premise that the universe would have had to exist forever. Do you have even a rudimentary understanding of quantum physics? No? Then you are guessing.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

That is a very good video, math isn't bias and it has no agenda, yet these things make for a compelling case against all these debunker's.

You watch a video like that and they still say we have no argument.

Here is the bottom line, one group has cognitive dissonance, the other is closer to the true reality of this world.
And one day we will find out for sure just who is right, 100%. But for now the debate rages on, and it is far from over, billions believe in a creator of some kind.
To say it's over is intellectual elitism pumped up by egotism, delusional and a lie. For example it's not over for an agnostic, they are still on the fence so to speak, and they could go either way, or just hold into their present belief

DP

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: 5StarOracle

That is a very good video, math isn't bias and it has no agenda, yet these things make for a compelling case against all these debunker's.

You watch a video like that and they still say we have no argument.

yep - there is, literally, no evidence for god anywhere in that video - there is just someone saying how wonderful the sequence is, how it occurs in all sorts of things, and how they believe it must have been made "by someone" - hence god.

Here is the bottom line, one group has cognitive dissonance, the other is closer to the true reality of this world.

Yep.

And one day we will find out for sure just who is right, 100%. But for now the debate rages on, and it is far from over, billions believe in a creator of some kind.

which is fine - but not the point the OP raised - he said he had PROOF - which means there is no need to believe, because you can KNOW.

and he has failed in that.

He could have said "I believe in god because........", and ther would be no argument about FACTS - but the OP made this about proof, and hence FACTS and hence KNOWING - not belief.

To say it's over is intellectual elitism pumped up by egotism, delusional and a lie. For example it's not over for an agnostic, they are still on the fence so to speak, and they could go either way, or just hold into their present belief

And that's fine - but irrelevant to the OP.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: 5StarOracle

That is a very good video, math isn't bias (sic) and it has no agenda

So, if I said science isn't biased and it has no agenda, how would you reply?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Blue, I'm not sure what kind of debate you think is raging on here. There isn't one. There are seemingly a bunch of people that desperately need to reconcile their faith and justify it to others. While doing this they either contradict scientific knowledge or cherry pick certain things in favor of it while ignoring others. There is one side that gets their information from scientific research papers and facts. The other side believes their faith IS fact and searches rigorously to find anything to possibly support it, nomatter how many assumptions are involved.

You tell me; which one is the more egotistical position, trusting scientific experts in their fields to eventually find the answers and admit we don't know everything, or believing that everything we haven't yet figured out is automatically god regardless of what the evidence says? That should be an easy one to answer.
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This is more directed to the thread in general:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In order to prove that something exists, you need objective verifiable evidence for whatever you are claiming exists. Not innuendos, metaphors, patterns and guesswork about complexity.

1. Appealing to complexity is not an argument for a creator. It is evidence for complexity. We don't know how complex DNA was originally. We don't know exactly how it arose. Until we do, it makes no sense to automatically assign that as evidence for god. This does not meet the criteria for god. You assume it does because we don't fully understand it yet. Can anybody prove that DNA was created?

2. Patterns and number sequences are not proof of anything outside of the calculations themselves. Humans invented our number system and mathematics. If you look for codes or patterns anywhere you will surely find them. Finding patterns in nature is not evidence for a creator. If anything, it is evidence for common DNA and evolution.

3. "The evidence is everywhere." A solar eclipse coincidence is not evidence for god, it can be explained perfectly by science. Order in the universe as you call it is not evidence for god. It is evidence for gravity. When you just arbitrarily say that a bird getting nectar from a flower, or saturn's rings are evidence of design, it makes me chuckle. Those things are actually evidence against creation. The bird eating nectar is direct evidence of evolution, NOT design. It's easy to look at a beautiful sunset in awe and it feels good to think god created everyone with a purpose, but it can all be explained by natural forces.

Everything from the sunset, to rainbows, to birds, to evolution, to weather, to moons and rings around planets can all be explained naturally. There isn't a single thing the universe that we have observed to require outside interference to function. Sure there is quite a bit we do not know, but not knowing doesn't = creator. Not knowing means more research needs to be done. Our knowledge is far from perfect.

Again, if you believe in god, there is nothing wrong with that at all. You just have to acknowledge that it is your faith and stop acting like it's fact. This is why threads like this go nowhere and only makes the believers look bad. The thing is most believers are not out doing things like this. They are actively participating in their faith by doing good deeds and following their teachings on morality. You shouldn't need to justify your faith to anybody. That's what makes it faith.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

For the sake of argument, let's say your little video does indeed prove there is a creator. It does little to prove which God did the creating.

How would you go about proving your specific god did it?

a reply to: Wookiep

The mind control begins at a very early age.

As in a child being born into a catholic family is conditioned from the start to be catholic.

It really shouldn't even be legal, but somehow it is.

Even those backward Amish leave their children a choice in staying in the fold or going out to live among the "Englishers" or "English"....

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I was raised a Catholic, went to a Catholic Primary School taught by nuns, and a Catholic boy's secondary school taught by Marist brothers. went to mass every Sunday, was an altar boy. Never got molested tho....should I sue for discrimination or was I just ugly?? (Bad joke!! :love

Some would say that explains a lot about me!!

I first rebelled when I was 12 and didn't get "confirmed", then at 16 did a few weeks as a "born again pentacostal", then figured it was all BS, became a "soft" atheist (ie I doubt god exists), now have no problems saying I see no evidence for god, a lot of evidence of absence, and I'm more than happy to "take het gamble" by believing there is no such thing.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

it is proof of one creator for all things great and small for the entire universe because the same code is used in all...

It's the same blue print it is very similar to binary code for a computer, the creator was is very much the ultimate scientist and computer programmer rolled into one yet even that does them no justice...

There can be only one God, that does not mean others can't be closer to his level then we are in intelligence and abilities or falsely perceived to be God call them angels and Demons if you like... I call them extraterrestrial beings or aliens, be they good or evil...

I can't believe the long winded stupidity that prevails on this site now... That's not directed at you but I have no interest in arguing with stupid it's pointless...

to the idiot that said no where in the video I previously linked whom said God was not mentioned anywhere in the video well the name of the video is God's fingerprint, and talks of the proof of a creator of the entire universe and shows you the sequence used in the smallest of things to the largest of things in the universe... THE SAME THING EVERYWHERE!