Is Islam the Solution to the West's Deep Internal Malaise?

a reply to: Drest

According to Islamic eschatology, the return of Prophet will be achieved when Issa (aka Jesus) comes back ... not Mahomed.
So the real question is more like :
Is Jesus the solution to the Islam deep internal malaise?

In a single word, NO

No religion, none whatsoever should ever be the ruling power over any people anywhere.

I am a believer myself, but I would not want my life dominated by rules and regulations invented thousands of years ago that struggle to be relevant in our modern world.

'Live and let live, and do so humbly and unselfishly' is the answer to our world woes.

Simple answer is no. Absolutely not. Religion has caused the deaths of more people in the history of mankind, than anything else. What the world truly needs is an end to all religion.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke
I think you hit the nail on the head. it is muslims in a malaise not the rest of the worlds religions. They are arrogant enough to believe everyone should follow them. We are happy and are still fighting battles for freedoms they will enjoy in the future, whilst trying to take them for themselves.
If they need god then so be it. I personally know the difference between right and wrong and don't need a higher force or any being real or not. I am intelligent enough to do the right thing.

I once observed a magpie feeding close to a tiny robin. When the robin came to close it pecked it on the top of the head and killed it. The magpie instantly flew into a nearby tree to observe the situation. It was behaving in a guilty manner. Looking round and very nervous. After about 5 mins the magpie flew down, picked up the dead bird and flew away. To eat it because that's what they do.
This raised 2 questions. Why did the bird wait and in a tree close by. Was it expecting retribution and who from. The second question was does it know what it has commited was wrong and how did it know its wrong. A true animal would have realised almost instantly that the robin was food and eaten it.
The point of the story is our instincts tell us the difference between right and wrong. Denial gives us a choice.
I do not need a religious point of view or doctrine to run my life the way I am doing. If I am wrong and there is a heaven then I am sure I will be allowed in because the only SIN I commit is not WORSHIPPING.

Western complacency is rampant, at the very least. Any westerner can feel proud of western society at the same time he has done literally nothing to further it. Meanwhile, he can continue to destroy the earth at an alarming rate, while still feeling good about himself and his situation, euphemistically labelling "progress".

However the desire to submit to one master is still a submission to one's own desires.

Provocative OP. Well done. I hope to read more.

So live in the western decadence or live as the beacon of light that Pakistan et al. is



Going backwards is never a solution, Islam is what Christianity was a few centuries ago, and neither has been an answer to anything never.

originally posted by: chewi
They are arrogant enough to believe everyone should follow them.

Careful now.
You know there are plenty of Christians who believe the same.
They demand the right to inflict their laws, they demand preferential treatment under the law, they demand society conform to their moralistic notions, they attack the personal choices of others based on their own sense of inflated superiority and self-righteousness...

And yes, there are plenty of them who would love nothing more than to see a Christian fanatic leading their own country according to their religious laws too.

Religious ignorance and fascist mentality is not limited to one faith.

a reply to: Drest

In answer to the titled question;

No...probably not.

In fact, Islam, along with Christianity, along with Judaism, along with Hinduism, along with Sikhism, along with...(you get the idea) is probably much more to do with cause of the malaise you speak of, rather than a possible solution to it.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Not unmoving, I actually enjoyed reading it and in ideology it sounds great. In reality however, I could never convert to Islam as long as their is Jihad. I just don't feel it bro.

As long as there are extremely large numbers of people in the name of Allah and Islam and being Muslim who:
behead people, even children
engage in slavery
destroy museums and churches
line up Christians and shot them
marry children
capture girls to use as sex slaves
"give" captured slave wives to men for memorizing Koran verses
force women into isolation
make women hide themselves because they have no control over their own desires
force women to marry men they don't want
not allow women to drive
not allow women to walk outside without a male relative
engage in female genital mutilation so women feel only pain upon intercourse

As long as there are a number of very large communities of Muslims engaging in these activities
in the name of Islam and in the name of Allah

The religion of Islam overall has not evolved enough into the modern world
for me to take it seriously
and produces far more evil people committing HORRIFIC ACTS than any other religion does or has
in the last 50 years,
for me,
I can not even fathom wanting it as a dominant religion anywhere.

Attack Christians now if you want; but in the last 500 years
there have been no crusades;
in the last 100 years Christians have not held slaves;
in the last 50 years only small pockets of Christians have
done evil things (as happens with any and all extremely large
groups of people);

There is currently no religion in the world that does as much corporate evil ACTS (not speech but actual horrific ACTS) in the name of their religion and God than the Muslim religion. That says to me there is a problem with either the religion itself; or the leadership at all levels and in every Muslim nation.

Sorry, bring about world peace, stop all the atrocities listed above, then maybe the world will take the OP seriously, until then, just NO.

Remember, this thread is about Islam, not Christianity,
but I know that many will turn it about Christianity,
which I why I inserted what I did.

Every thread I have seen about Islam on ATS
has turned into a Christian bashing thread,

because no one can defend Islam

so they deflect and side step the real problems
with the practice of Islam in the Muslim countries.

Why?
Because no one can defend these HORRIFIC ACTIONS
done in the name of Allah,

so they attack others as more evil
when the others have only about 10% of the evil acts
in their communities as the Muslim religion does.


Attacking Christians to defend Islam, is one of the weakest
and most cowardly ways of defending Islam.
It is like saying: Yes I beat him up and robbed him,
and so what if he is now on life support?
His cousin twice removed pushed me last year.

There are good Muslims in the US, and other places.
But the religion itself, because of the fruit of the religion.
One knows the heart of belief by the actions of the people believing.
Right now the fruit is rotten and killing people.

a reply to: Rocker2013
Christians have been in in charge and they also are fanatical. I wasn't trying to just label Islam but the title actually mentions Islam. I am against the constraints and conditions of all religions due to its denial of responsibility in the name of the god that suits their way of life. It is a human thing called ego that makes us think our religion (tribe), is the best. I think the Christians have behaved a lot worse than muslims ever will. I hate what they have created because they had the power to change the worlds future. That brings me to my point.
All religions are no longer needed they served their purpose and have brought us to this point in time. Albeit the long way round. It is now time to unite as 1 race without the constraints of different religions causing divides. There is no need for the old god so please somebody invent a new one that will have a positive effect on humanity.

Not a racist. Have many Muslim friends who are some of the nicest people I've ever met.

However, here's a little story.... I went out with a few friends the other night, in to my city for a few drinks. We stepped out of the taxi and within 30 seconds had 3 cars, full of young Muslim men, drive passed us and proceed to throw 3 bottles of water at us (one per car, very well planned!). They were full (but thankfully plastic) and hit 2 of the girls that were with us. And it hurt them. Of course, anyone could do this... But we're talking about muslims here. And your post was in regards to being the "solution" well, I can't see it being.

I live in a city (in the UK) where I have seen our culture get ripped from us. Parts of my city are like driving through Pakistan (no joke)... You know, I want nothing more than multiculturalism to work and for Islam not to be feared or mocked. Because, like I said, some of the nicest people i've ever met were Muslim. I've studied Islam for a couple of years and I'm well aware of what true Islam is. But it's current representation is NOT our own doing. What I see on a day to day basis, I'm not surprised (in the UK anyway) why there is such a bitter taste in peoples mouths towards muslims (young muslims usually) Not to mention the drug dealing and expensive cars (from said dealings) I see from young Muslims too. You see, Religion can't be the solution. People have to be. And although they are "Muslim" they are doing it a disservice.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. Islam is a wonderful faith if you look deep enough.

Nicely written post though, well played.

OK......Drest hasn't been here since page 2.

So start a bombshell-thread & run to drum up business?

The very simple answer to the Op is this.
North America was given it's own way, It was given to the Native peoples and works for this land. Islam was given to it's own patch of ground, so NO....
Islam much like christianity isn't going to do squat here.

In fact both have done irreparable harm.
Since we are in the Metaphysical & Philosophy Thread....Riddle me this, If Above, So Below.....how jacked up are the spiritual realms that we're seeing it in the physical plane?
And no I don't think that question should be reversed....we actually aren't to blame for everything seen & unseen.
Frankly we aren't all that & a bag of chips in the grand scheme of things.

a reply to: chewi

I knew that not one person could defend Islam or the Muslim religion without slamming Christians.

Until someone can successfully defend the ACTS of Islamic supporters without using the word Christian even one time. Then they have not defended Islam, simply deflected and side stepped because they can not defend the ACTIONS at all.

Can someone defend
without mentioning the word Christian
laws in Muslims countries:

don't allow women to drive

force women to cover their bodies: without the implication that it is because the men in Muslim countries have absolutely no self control and are compelled to rape at the sight of a female arm

do not allow women on the street without a male relative: without the implication it is because Muslim men have no self control and must rape at the sight of a woman alone

allow for "unpaid" domestic servants (Saudia Arabia)

allow female genital mutilation so that intercourse is painful always for women: without the implication that the men are such selfish husbands that women will cheat on them if they don't make intercourse excruciating


Not to mention these items that are widespread in the Middle East:
behead people, even children
engage in slavery
destroy museums and churches
line up Christians and shot them
marry children
capture girls to use as sex slaves
"give" captured slave wives to men for memorizing Koran verses
force women into isolation

Successfully defend the ACTIONS of Muslims without mentioning the word Christian,
and you will have credibility.

a reply to: Drest

Religion is from the Dark Ages. Let's leave it there.

a reply to: Drest

Yes....just look at all those shining examples of where Islam has lead the population to a higher level!
No theft, greed, corruption, immorality, drug abuse, mass murder and mayhem....yeah!


Erh.....you cant!

a reply to: Drest

No. Nope!

I understand it is very uplifting for many and makes sense to billions, but no.

a reply to: grandmakdw
I am offended you think I am defending muslims. I hate all religions. I mentioned Christians because of the thread directed at me. Who in th world can defend muslims. I think muslims are just young Christians with different beliefs and reasons for doing the same as the catholics used to do. please don't label me as a religious apologist . Anyone needing a religion is insecure about his life and future death.
Religion is childish and for the afraid.

a reply to: chewi

when someone slams Christians and compares them Muslims. That is being a Muslim apologist

Even if one hates all religions and all religious people

My point is no one appears to be capable of defending or even discussing Muslim actions without slamming Christians which is defacto apologist for the acts of middle school east muslins

a reply to: grandmakdw

My point is capable of defending or even discussing Muslim actions without slamming Christians

They are sibling religions. One can't really separate the two if one is going to discuss "religions".
You seem to have mastered the plate juggling that is condemning ALL Muslims (many of whom live peacefully and moderately, and many of those are here on ATS) though, while ignoring not only the good things some of them do (like Malala, for one, and like the American Muslims who stepped up to help rebuild a Christian church recently for another [oh wait, I used Muslims interacting with Christians, so that's probably out of bounds, too])

Fix your own team before blanketly condemning another, please. What a hateful post - and yet you felt compelled to twist the OP into a Christian slamming thread? Not just once, but TWICE!

The OP was very well written, but utterly unconvincing. Your posts in it are off topic and malicious in every way.

a reply to: grandmakdw

We can hate religion but it doesn't mean we hate religious people.
But do continue bleating persecution why change a habit of a lifetime?.