AmeriKKKa

originally posted by: MoreBeer
With white people constantly being called racist by simply having a different skin color

I have never been called racist because of my skin color only. I think you are vastly exaggerating things here.

originally posted by: MoreBeer
a reply to: n00bUK

Until black racism stops being condoned and perpetrated in the media, by the countries leaders, president and everyday citizens this will become more common place. All they are doing creating more racists. With white people constantly being called racist by simply having a different skin color, some feel they my as well be racist and play up to these stereo types.

Just as young black youths are constantly poisoned by parts of their culture (ie. Rap music) and choose to be thugs.

Maybe the black community needs to look inward and effect changes in their own community and display some accountability.

Not saying that there are not problems with in the white community. There definitely are.

I'm sure because I dared say anything negative about the black community I'll be labeled a racist and bigot by some. Truth is I'm neither of those things and simply a realist.

Until EVERYONE has a voice and listens to each other nothing will change. Hate begets hate and that is we are seeing now.

So what your saying is the president is a racist and is leading the way for African American racism I say thats a heaping load of BS.

Looks like your saying African American culture is a kind of posion too, I must say this is a BS statement too.

originally posted by: MoreBeer
a reply to: n00bUK

Until black racism stops being condoned and perpetrated in the media, by the countries leaders, president and everyday citizens this will become more common place. All they are doing creating more racists. With white people constantly being called racist by simply having a different skin color, some feel they my as well be racist and play up to these stereo types.

This is one of those divisive points the OP was talking about in the opening post being pushed by the right wing media. No one is blanket calling whites racist. There IS a problem of white privilege in the country, but admitting that is the case isn't admitting that you are racist. It is possible to take advantage of a racist system without knowing. You don't have to feel guilty about it, but you should certainly speak up to help get it fixed so it is more equal for everyone.

Just as young black youths are constantly poisoned by parts of their culture (ie. Rap music) and choose to be thugs.

There is plenty of white culture that chooses to be thugs as well. There is plenty of Mexican culture that chooses to be thugs. This is all irrelevant. Poverty breeds crime, these people all have the similarity of growing up in poverty. Not to mention, not everyone who listens to rap becomes a gangster.

Maybe the black community needs to look inward and effect changes in their own community and display some accountability.

The black community IS working on fixing these problems. They know it is an issue, but when the system works against you, it makes it AWFUL hard to affect any change.

Not saying that there are not problems with in the white community. There definitely are.

I'm sure because I dared say anything negative about the black community I'll be labeled a racist and bigot by some. Truth is I'm neither of those things and simply a realist.

I'm not calling you a racist or a bigot. Just misinformed.

Until EVERYONE has a voice and listens to each other nothing will change. Hate begets hate and that is we are seeing now.

Yes it does, so why aren't you listening to your black brothers saying over and over that there is a problem? Sounds to me like you just got done justifying why you want to drag your feet on this issue and started passing blame around instead of working together with your black brothers to address the issue.

No one is going to come together and work with you if you are pushing the very divisive rhetoric that you keeps us divided and at each other's throats. I find your last paragraph overly ironic.

I completely agree it was race related. I was shocked when I saw the first headline and the police quote said it was a hate crime. But then when I clicked the story I realized why. Because the shooter was white. If it was a black shooter in a white church, it would not be labeled a hate crime and it would already off the major networks front pages.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
If it was a black shooter in a white church, it would not be labeled a hate crime and it would already off the major networks front pages.

Unless the black shooter was wearing a Nation of Islam shirt, and claimed that he had no choice but to kill white people because they rape black people's wives, that it was time to start a race war.


You got to compare what's comparable.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: MoreBeer
a reply to: n00bUK

Until black racism stops being condoned and perpetrated in the media, by the countries leaders, president and everyday citizens this will become more common place. All they are doing creating more racists. With white people constantly being called racist by simply having a different skin color, some feel they my as well be racist and play up to these stereo types.

This is one of those divisive points the OP was talking about in the opening post being pushed by the right wing media. No one is blanket calling whites racist. There IS a problem of white privilege in the country, but admitting that is the case isn't admitting that you are racist. It is possible to take advantage of a racist system without knowing. You don't have to feel guilty about it, but you should certainly speak up to help get it fixed so it is more equal for everyone.

Just as young black youths are constantly poisoned by parts of their culture (ie. Rap music) and choose to be thugs.

There is plenty of white culture that chooses to be thugs as well. There is plenty of Mexican culture that chooses to be thugs. This is all irrelevant. Poverty breeds crime, these people all have the similarity of growing up in poverty. Not to mention, not everyone who listens to rap becomes a gangster.

Maybe the black community needs to look inward and effect changes in their own community and display some accountability.

The black community IS working on fixing these problems. They know it is an issue, but when the system works against you, it makes it AWFUL hard to affect any change.

Not saying that there are not problems with in the white community. There definitely are.

I'm sure because I dared say anything negative about the black community I'll be labeled a racist and bigot by some. Truth is I'm neither of those things and simply a realist.

I'm not calling you a racist or a bigot. Just misinformed.

Until EVERYONE has a voice and listens to each other nothing will change. Hate begets hate and that is we are seeing now.

Yes it does, so why aren't you listening to your black brothers saying over and over that there is a problem? Sounds to me like you just got done justifying why you want to drag your feet on this issue and started passing blame around instead of working together with your black brothers to address the issue.

No one is going to come together and work with you if you are pushing the very divisive rhetoric that you keeps us divided and at each other's throats. I find your last paragraph overly ironic.

A million times this...

This sort of rhetoric, the kind that separates people into blacks, whites, or whatever other fleeting distinctions you can think of, is the reason this kid went out and shot these people in the first place.

You all should be ashamed.

a reply to: JUhrman

Maybe I did miss the point...I did kind of speed-read through it, so I'll admit to a possible loss of reading comprehension on this one (I'm tired...long night with an 18-month-old).

Anyhoo, I will say that using the Southern Poverty Law Center as a basis for assessing the racism or racist elements of the United States is a bad choice. But keep in mind, they list hate groups, not racist groups (although some are both). Also, some of the groups that they have listed as hate groups in the past have been extremely questionable by anyone wearing their thinking cap. That goes for some groups that they do NOT include on their list, too, like Al Sharpton's National Action Network.

I've never heard of Stormfront, really, so I can't comment on that nor can I access the site from where I am right now. I'll try to check it out later, but if it is what it appears to be (some sort of online forum for whacky racists), 300,000 members on a forum accessible by the entire world is a pretty small drop in the bucket of our population. That's not huge.

300,000 out of an estimated 7,000,000,000 people is 0.004% of the world. That's acceptable, understanding human nature as I do.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
This sort of rhetoric, the kind that separates people into blacks, whites, or whatever other fleeting distinctions you can think of, is the reason this kid went out and shot these people in the first place.

You all should be ashamed.

Ashamed of what...talking about it?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Anyhoo, I will say that using the Southern Poverty Law Center as a basis for assessing the racism or racist elements of the United States is a bad choice. But keep in mind, they list hate groups, not racist groups (although some are both).

I think you read too quickly again

I specifically said this:

there was and is still a whole menagerie of hate groups plaguing the US with racism and discrimination

I never said the site was a good basis to list racists elements. Actually tons of people are racists without belonging to any organisation.

Also Stormfront was founded by an American and is mainly frequented by Americans so it's unfair to compare its figures to the whole world. From the 300.000 members a big number are Americans.

e: better a quick picture than a long discourse, we can safely say the site is mainly frequented by Americans and anglo-saxons


I think you would really gain from reading more slowly and taking the time to integrate a post if you want your response to have weight in this discussion. No hard feelings but I did not really understand your answer to the OP or to me as they weren't really addressing things we claimed.

Actually it gave me the feeling that it was a quick defensive attempt at saying that "not all Americans are racists, not all whites are racists" while it has never been the point of the thread, so there is no need to say so. Your responses here sound like you defend yourself while you haven't been personally accused of anything.


The thread is about a recent shooting motivated by racism, and the dangerous situation the US are in now with many groups/organizations/individuals (whatever their color) advocating for violence and segregation against minorities based on lies, caricatures and generalizations.


I think we can all agree on this without feeling hurt and needing to deflect the blame from our own community and point at the flaws of others. It's not a problem related to colors. It's a problem related to these groups which are allowed to continue existing and to spread their lies, because some of their ideas are actually quite ingrained in the american subconscious despite being false or deformed. It's a problem related to the continuation of various forms of racism and bigotry since the early days of the US. It's a problem related to unfair generalizations, some you even posted yourself as pointed in Krazyshot's post.

originally posted by: n00bUK
Been an outsider who doesn't live in America, and how much the majority pride their country on been the beacon of freedom, fairness and prosperity - I and many other see the opposite. We see your country crumbling from the inside due to your media and education.

Hiya,

Thank you for the clarification, it makes more sense to me now.

I'm not actually American though! It's why I have little to say about racism in America in particular. I'll talk about generalizations or the like, but I feel far too disconnected from the topic to discuss it and it appears like American media is incredibly efficient at turning the opening of a barn door into a liberal vs conservative battle royal.

Thanks again!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
This sort of rhetoric, the kind that separates people into blacks, whites, or whatever other fleeting distinctions you can think of, is the reason this kid went out and shot these people in the first place.

You all should be ashamed.

what are you talking about? Who is that even aimed at?

a reply to: Ameilia

its a sad day in america when you have to go to church armed. i understand it would be a utopian ideal to live in a world living without fear of someone coming in to your church and shooting the place up, sounds like something that would happen in some 3rd world country. smh.

as an american i can honestly say racism exists but nowhere near as bad as it used to, even though it appears to be rearing its ugly head again. that is no excuse though as racism should not exist at all anymore. we do have a terrible history of institutionalized racism and a bad habit of denying our racist past and beginnings call it denial, call it what you want but i do believe the more that we talk about it and accept how wrong it was and is the better off we will be. i believe there should be a national day of talking about it and denouncing our past. we should not simply sweep it under the rug and forget about it, the jews did not forget about the holocaust nor should we forget about our racist past and injustices towards african americans, natives, hispanic, chinese, irish as well as vice versa.

as for people from other countries go they should not act like racism doesn't exist in their countries because racism pretty much exists everywhere.

a reply to: n00bUK

Everyone's peception of things is influenced by their own personal experiences and by what they see, hear and read in the media. The motto here is Deny Ignorance, that is the only way to see through all the crap that is shoveled to us by groups with their own agendas. If all to you do is narrow your viewing to the same media day after day, you will become those viewpoints in real life more often than not.

This was a racist hate crime by a very mentally unstable white punk/thug who was on potent meds and in illegal possession of a gun against a group of people he solely selected based on the color of their skin.

This kind of hate just doesn't spring up overnight, we
need to find out where/whom/how he developed it. Was it his parents? Other kids? Somewhere/something else?

Mental health issues and psychotic drugs seems to be the common denominator in almost all mass shootings. We see people who look like they could snap and just avert our eyes as a society. Is that what is different from the US and other countries, how we deal with mental illnesses?

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: n00bUK

I agree with much of what you said. But it seems like you're assuming some people don't want it to stay like this. Just remember, the US only ended racial segregation in 1964. And it took some states much longer to implement this racial integration. And interracial marriage bans were overturned in the 1967 Supreme Court case Loving v Virginia. during Segregation, we were literally 2nd class citizens & only had some of the rights & benefits that "white" people had.

As you can probably guess, many of the people who supported racial segregation & its many consequences are still alive today. You can't assume they all changed their beliefs just because the US government changed its laws. I believe it'll take another 40-50 years before a super-majority of Americans will be beyond the issue of "race".

And when some of these places were forced to integrate the schools, they weren't happy. They cut school funding and stuck their kids in private schools. Wonderful, so now the minority families that don't have enough money for private school have to send their children to underfunded schools with out dated textbooks and poorly paid teachers.

A lot of people forget about that...

Its our generations way of dealing with sad events, we blame someone else to make us feel better about living in this day an age.

The Op sounds basically identical to what some CNN commentators were serving out. What the news says isn't the stance of every American citizen.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is one of those divisive points the OP was talking about in the opening post being pushed by the right wing media. No one is blanket calling whites racist.

No, but it seems to be implying that people that lean right are racists though, don't it? Sounds pretty divisive to me. Left wingers ignore their flaws while bagging on the right's flaws, right wingers ignore their flaws while bagging on the left's flaws. I think both are knuckledragging morons personally.

a reply to: TKDRL

No it isn't. Just because the right wing media pushes a racist message doesn't make the right wing racist. I happen to know quite a few right wing people who aren't racist, but that doesn't change the fact that right wing media is racist.

I'm not trying to deny that racists don't exist on all sides, but if you were to honestly compare the right wing media to the left wing media, it is VERY clear which one is more lop-sided in the "is it racist?" category.