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My answer is that according to the Word there is no such thing as a gnostic Christian. You may claim that title but have only deceived yourself. You are not a Christ follower (Christian) unless you follow the Christ and there is but one Christ and that is the Word of God (Jesus). Any other way or means is futile and cannot be watered down or mixed with other seeds. That is Christianity and you cannot change it with your own set of rules. You threw the rule book away and now try to write your own with nothing but confusion.
(1) - I understand that in your shahada, you must say this "I testify (witness) that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger" Just to show you that I present no bias, the shahada is here. So everyone that is Muslim or desiring to convert to Islam must say this, because it is one of the five pillars of faith.
(2) - Here is the conundrum, YOU believer or supposed believer must actually witness that first of all you must say there is no god but Allah. OK, that sounds simple enough, just say Allah is the only god. Fair enough, that's a god you have chosen out of all the gods that have ever been in the world. But you don't stop at that, you then must witness that Mohammed is his messenger. RED FLAG moment right here. HOW do you witness that a man who lived and died 1,400 years ago IS? To witness means that you actually have seen or heard Mohammed when he was here. That means that to logically make sense, then YOU have to WITNESS Mohammed IS a messenger. HOW is this even logically possible? Have you seen Mohammed at any time? What color is his eyes? What color is his hair? Does he have wrinkles now? Is he 1,400 years old and still walking around? The problem here is that you have to take a vow that you actually have witnessed Mohammed.
(3) - We could say ok, you believe in Allah, you can give us all the 99 attributes of Allah, you can say that Allah is a god that has never been seen, however, you also must witness that there are no other gods. Can you do that? Have you actually witnessed that there are no other gods? This is a condundrum and cognitive dissonance. Condundrum noun 1. a riddle, the answer to which involves a pun or play on words, as What is black and white and read all over? A newspaper. 2. anything that puzzles. Cognitive dissonance noun 1. (psychol) an uncomfortable mental state resulting from conflicting cognitions; usually resolved by changing some of the cognitions
(4) - I would like from you truthfully, have you ever actually witnessed that there are no other gods? And have you ever witnessed Mohammed actually being a messenger? And this is why there are condundrums in the Quran regarding this... Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee) 16:51 And Allah has said, "Do not take for yourselves two deities. He is but one God, so fear only Me." Do you see how that logically makes no sense? The speaker here is saying Allah said this, but it is supposed to be a direct quote from Allah, so then WHY would Allah then say in direct quote, HE is but one God so fear ME? Condundrum. IF Allah was speaking, why would Allah not say I am one god so fear only me? Ah, but the speaker himself is interjecting himself into Allah, but telling you to fear the speaker because it is a direct quote. Please logically reconcile that, because it sounds like Allah has a dual personality, and the speaker wants you to perceive the speaker as Allah, so fear the speaker, who is Allah, and yet Allah doesn't address himself, only the speaker does as a different person.There are indeed two gods here, if this was supposed to be Allah and a speaker that isn't Allah, and so you aren't supposed to fear Allah, only the speaker. How then do you testify here if this is supposed to be a clear book? A clear book should not have conundrums. And then HOW do you witness to this?
(5) - Surat Ţāhā (Ta-Ha) 20:98 Your god is only Allah , except for whom there is no deity. He has encompassed all things in knowledge." Can you absolutely witness that there are no other deities? No, you can't, because of this... Surat Al-Baqarah 2:62 Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Therefore, the Sabians who worshiped a completely different god, and there's no obligation here that anyone else should witness Mohammed, they ARE STILL going to heaven. Condundrum with the shahada. Then please explain this condundrum within the same chapter
(6) - Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2: 143 And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful. YOU are suppose to witness that Mohammed is the messenger, one whom you have never seen nor heard, and yet this so-called messenger is now a witness over you? How is that possible if Allah is the one who knows your heart? Does Mohammed now witness your heart?
(7) - And then, answer this condundrum, if the word HARAM means ha·ram ˈherəm/ adjective adjective: haram forbidden or proscribed by Islamic law. then WHY are you looking at a mosque called al-Masjid al-Haram? The name itself means "The Mosque forbidden by Islam law". It is cognitive dissonance to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time, and in order to alleviate the stress, you have to put aside one cognizance. HOW can you witness to that there are no other deities even though the Quran mentions it, that Mohammed can continue to be a messenger even though he is dead and that you are commanded by Islamic law to perform qibla to a mosque that its very name means it is forbidden by Islamic law?
(8) - Hey, if it makes sense to you, then by all means. But if you really looked at what the Quran says, then how can you witness to any of it? Does it ever cross your mind during qibla that you are actually bowing to a mosque that the Quran itself tells you the name means forbidden? Does it ever cross your mind that the speaker in the Quran interchanges he and him with the human speaker when referring to Allah? Does that ever make you question just exactly what you had to give up logically in order to pursue such illogical statements? Please explain to us how you overcame your cognitive dissonance in order to fit this into your witness.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: peter vlar
THIS thread is introduced by the title...
IF this thread were about anything else, we can discuss anything else, but the problem is the condundrums. I called no one a religious fanatic, neither did I decry moderates or fundamentals. All I asked was to answer the condundrums.
I only spoke out against those things within the Quran, because that is what the title is about. IF you would like to discuss Christian condundrums then by all means go and create a thread.
I am not afraid of Muslims, I am afraid that we must come to the defense of women who are being treated unequally, by the very same people who claim there is equality for women. If you prefer that little girls not being allowed to learn to read and write, if you prefer the endless cycle of forced marriages and rape of little girls by the very same people who try to deny that fact, then by all means, do so.
Silence can be deadly and denying the reality of a political movement that offers Westerners a whitewashed version of Islam while forcefully enacting the same tribalism. Ask every Muslim who responded on this thread, are they permitted to leave Islam?
If any of them live in any country in the western world, and then choose to move to another country where Islam is the predominant political source of all Islamic jurisprudence, can any of them take with them to Mecca a spouse that is not Muslim? Can ANY of them go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan or any other country, are they permitted to say the Quran is wrong in any point?
Silence is not golden. IF the Westerners really listened, if they really looked into it beyond some moderate Muslims who are also under threat of their lives, they are calling it a religion of peace but they never mention the political foundation of Islam.
Ask them if this is all true, they are NOT permitted to take a non-Muslim spouse to Mecca, they are NOT permitted to step into any Islamic country and say the Quran has any error, and they are NOT permitted to tell you about it.
They can worship whatever they want, but they cannot implement the same things you find odious about religion while you don't listen to the politics.
So the condundrums, can you dispute them?
Oh, and Mohammed's idea of complicity was silence. If you are silent of Mohammed's actions, in his world that means you are complicit and agree with him.
Oh, this guy is head of the EUROPEAN Council....Let's see what the guy in Europe says..
Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research (ECFR) and president of the International Union for Muslim Scholars
Apostasy from Islam after willingly accepting it and subsequently declaring an open revolt against it in such a manner which threatens the solidarity of the Muslim community is a crime punishable by death. No one is compelled to accept Islam, but at the same time no one is permitted to play tricks with it, as some Jews did during the Prophet’s time:
Abul Ala Mawdudi, founder of Jamaat-e-Islami party
n my opinion its solution – and God conforms us to rectitude – is to notify the Muslim population in the area where an Islamic revolution occurs that people who in belief and practice have defected from Islam and wish to remain as defectors should formally disclose their non-Muslim identity and leave our social order within a year from the date of the notification. After this period all those who are born of Muslim lineage will be considered to be Muslim, they will be subject to all Islamic laws, they will be compelled to perform the religious duties and obligations, and then whoever steps outside the fold of Islam will be executed. Following this announcement utmost effort should be made to save as many sons and daughters born of Muslims as possible from the lap of kufr. Then whoever cannot be saved by any means should be cut off and cast away, sadly but firmly, from his society forever. After this act of purification a new life for Islamic society may begin with only those Muslims who are dedicated to Islam…
By Nonie Darwish If you convert you die. Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening.
The one I like for religion is if you go to a doctor unwell and he says if I put this chemical with this chemical in your veins you will be cured. Your reply is how do you jnow that? The doctors well I had a revelation, I believe it will work I know it is true. You would not accept this drug, because there is no proof, you are going according to 1 man's "vocation". Yet this does not apply with religion. Why?
So again, what did I say that was actually incorrect? Because when you say you've read no answers to the half dozen questions, I have to believe that you haven't actually read much of the thread because many people discussed several of her points as they relate to a difference in rules of grammar. So either you didn't read it all or you just refuse to accept or acknowledge the replies.