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Can Muslims Answer These Conundrums?

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posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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I understand that in your shahada, you must say this "I testify (witness) that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger"

Just to show you that I present no bias, the shahada is here. So everyone that is Muslim or desiring to convert to Islam must say this, because it is one of the five pillars of faith.

Here is the conundrum, YOU believer or supposed believer must actually witness that first of all you must say there is no god but Allah. OK, that sounds simple enough, just say Allah is the only god. Fair enough, that's a god you have chosen out of all the gods that have ever been in the world. But you don't stop at that, you then must witness that Mohammed is his messenger. RED FLAG moment right here.

HOW do you witness that a man who lived and died 1,400 years ago IS?

To witness means that you actually have seen or heard Mohammed when he was here. That means that to logically make sense, then YOU have to WITNESS Mohammed IS a messenger.

HOW is this even logically possible?

Have you seen Mohammed at any time? What color is his eyes? What color is his hair? Does he have wrinkles now? Is he 1,400 years old and still walking around? The problem here is that you have to take a vow that you actually have witnessed Mohammed.

We could say ok, you believe in Allah, you can give us all the 99 attributes of Allah, you can say that Allah is a god that has never been seen, however, you also must witness that there are no other gods. Can you do that? Have you actually witnessed that there are no other gods?

This is a condundrum and cognitive dissonance.


Condundrum
noun 1. a riddle, the answer to which involves a pun or play on words, as What is black and white and read all over? A newspaper.
2. anything that puzzles.



cognitive dissonance noun 1. (psychol) an uncomfortable mental state resulting from conflicting cognitions; usually resolved by changing some of the cognitions


I would like from you truthfully, have you ever actually witnessed that there are no other gods? And have you ever witnessed Mohammed actually being a messenger?

And this is why there are condundrums in the Quran regarding this...


Surat An-Naĥl (The Bee) 16:51 And Allah has said, "Do not take for yourselves two deities. He is but one God, so fear only Me."


Do you see how that logically makes no sense? The speaker here is saying Allah said this, but it is supposed to be a direct quote from Allah, so then WHY would Allah then say in direct quote, HE is but one God so fear ME? Condundrum. IF Allah was speaking, why would Allah not say I am one god so fear only me?

Ah, but the speaker himself is interjecting himself into Allah, but telling you to fear the speaker because it is a direct quote.

Please logically reconcile that, because it sounds like Allah has a dual personality, and the speaker wants you to perceive the speaker as Allah, so fear the speaker, who is Allah, and yet Allah doesn't address himself, only the speaker does as a different person.There are indeed two gods here, if this was supposed to be Allah and a speaker that isn't Allah, and so you aren't supposed to fear Allah, only the speaker. How then do you testify here if this is supposed to be a clear book?

A clear book should not have conundrums.

And then HOW do you witness to this?


Surat Ţāhā (Ta-Ha) 20:98 Your god is only Allah , except for whom there is no deity. He has encompassed all things in knowledge."
Can you absolutely witness that there are no other deities? No, you can't, because of this...


Surat Al-Baqarah 2:62 Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


Therefore, the Sabians who worshiped a completely different god, and there's no obligation here that anyone else should witness Mohammed, they ARE STILL going to heaven. Condundrum with the shahada.

Then please explain this condundrum within the same chapter


Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2: 143 And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.


YOU are suppose to witness that Mohammed is the messenger, one whom you have never seen nor heard, and yet this so-called messenger is now a witness over you? How is that possible if Allah is the one who knows your heart? Does Mohammed now witness your heart?

And then, answer this condundrum, if the word HARAM means

ha·ram ˈherəm/ adjective adjective: haram forbidden or proscribed by Islamic law.
then WHY are you looking at a mosque called al-Masjid al-Haram? The name itself means "The Mosque forbidden by Islam law".

It is cognitive dissonance to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time, and in order to alleviate the stress, you have to put aside one cognizance. HOW can you witness to that there are no other deities even though the Quran mentions it, that Mohammed can continue to be a messenger even though he is dead and that you are commanded by Islamic law to perform qibla to a mosque that its very name means it is forbidden by Islamic law?

Hey, if it makes sense to you, then by all means. But if you really looked at what the Quran says, then how can you witness to any of it? Does it ever cross your mind during qibla that you are actually bowing to a mosque that the Quran itself tells you the name means forbidden?

Does it ever cross your mind that the speaker in the Quran interchanges he and him with the human speaker when referring to Allah? Does that ever make you question just exactly what you had to give up logically in order to pursue such illogical statements?


Please explain to us how you overcame your cognitive dissonance in order to fit this into your witness.







edit on 6/6/2015 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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Have you seen Mohammed at any time? What color is his eyes? What color is his hair? Does he have wrinkles now? Is he 1,400 years old and still walking around? The problem here is that you have to take a vow that you actually have witnessed Mohammed.


Have you seen "Jesus"? I assume you are Christian.

Have you seen "GOD"?

What do you worship?


+4 more 
posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy



Just to show you that I present no bias,


Lol.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: steamiron
a reply to: WarminIndy



Just to show you that I present no bias,


Lol.


I was saying that I would not get that from an anti-Islamic site, only that I used an Islamic source. That is what I meant.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

So this is all based on turning testify to witness?

Why does it have to mean witness, that is not the concrete definition of the word.
www.merriam-webster.com...

Where on the website you sourced does it say what you are saying?


edit on thSat, 06 Jun 2015 16:20:46 -0500America/Chicago620154680 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: WarminIndy

So this is all based on turning testify to witness?

Why does it have to mean witness, that is not the concrete definition of the word.
www.merriam-webster.com...

Where on the website you sourced does it say what you are saying?



Do YOU testify OR witness that Mohammed IS the messenger?

IS and WAS are two different words with two different meanings, the point is...you testify that Mohammed IS, meaning currently, right now, at this moment, presently....

IS Mohammed a messenger RIGHT NOW, AT THIS MOMENT or PRESENTLY?



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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Testify has many synonyms...

Some of which are "state on oath", "assert", "allege" etc




Haram - ح-ر-م (Sacred)


Haram - حَرَام (Forbidden)



Different meanings.

Took me two minutes to find this out.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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Yah, lol, religion is a conundrum, most asserting their god is the one true god.

No wonder the worlds a mess.

If religions would just stop proclaiming stupid stuff like that we'd all live longer.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Testify has many synonyms...

Some of which are "state on oath", "assert", "allege" etc




Haram - ح-ر-م (Sacred)


Haram - حَرَام (Forbidden)



Different meanings.

Took me two minutes to find this out.


Problem, you have the same word for both opposite.

Sacred and forbidden can actually mean the same thing, like the Holy of Holies, it was kadosh meaning holy and set apart.

But you can't say pork is haram, if pork is both forbidden and sacred, so find a new word because this word does not work.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I got a serious question Charlie . It is forbidden to draw pictures of Mohammed but is it forbidden to draw pictures of Allah ?



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: intrptr




If religions would just stop proclaiming stupid stuff like that we'd all live longer.



Lol!!!

Great statement, I love it!




posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

IS Jesus the Son of God?

Or WAS Jesus the Son of God?



Michael Jackson IS a legend.

Albert Einstein IS a pioneer of Physics.



Semantics anyways.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I got a serious question Charlie . It is forbidden to draw pictures of Mohammed but is it forbidden to draw pictures of Allah ?





Using their word haram...drawing pictures could actually be sacred.

Then what's the problem with drawing sacred pictures of Mohammed? It is haram.....



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy


so find a new word because this word does not work.


I guess you didn't notice they're spelled completely differently.


"Find a new word"???


You mean tell 1.6billion Muslims to stop using Arabic because an ATS member doesn't understand what lost in translation is?


No.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Yes this entire thread is based on splitting hairs of word definitions and usage by making them black and white.

And using the standards to something the has been ultimately translated from a different language and we all know things do translate perfect.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

For Muslims yes, because idols are forbidden.


For you, no.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy

IS Jesus the Son of God?

Or WAS Jesus the Son of God?



Michael Jackson IS a legend.

Albert Einstein IS a pioneer of Physics.



Semantics anyways.


Hmm, a legend...Michael Jackson WAS a legend, while he was alive. As Michael Jackson is now dead, his fame WAS legendary, so now legend becomes the subject.

Einstein WAS a pioneer of Phsysics, because the very word pioneer in that sense means someone who previously trail blazed a new idea.

As long as the person is alive can you say one is a legend now or one is a pioneer now. Semantics..yes, you applied the wrong grammar. Michael Jackson's FAME is a legend. The man is dead.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

For Muslims yes, because idols are forbidden.


For you, no.


Hmm, are you assuming all deities are idols?

Are you assuming that all deities were idols?



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

Is Jesus the son of god or was he?

Couldn't help but notice that one was not addressed



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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Take these two books and call me in the morning. No refills needed.

Imaginal Worlds: Ibn al-'Arabi and the Problem of Religious Diversity by William Chittick (or any book by Chittick)

Alone with the Alone by Henri Corbin

If you still experience symptoms read any book by Hazrat Inayat Khan (but after you've already tried the initial treatment).

Warning. Possible side effects include realizing that the terms "deity" "god" "religion" and "spirituality" have an infinite amount of meanings that take a lifetime to understand and are sometimes simplified into in common use by those that don't study many religions and systems of thought. Some patients experience a lessening of anthropomorphism and an increase in philosophical thinking. Some may find that all gods are human interpretations of the same one ultimate universal God consciousness, or at least understand that such a concept exists. Muslim Sufis have been prone to exhibit this side effect historically. If you find yourself resolving contradictions and paradoxes for more than four hours call a doctor immediately and tell them you are no longer stuck on simple binary thinking. Many patients are more prone to coming down with a case of mysticism after the treatment.

Discuss with your doctor if this medication is right for you. While showing the best results of any treatment available, the time required in reading these books and thinking through these concepts are part of a long process of realizing that you don't even realize what the word "god" means in these different contexts. While patients show significant improvement over those who only look for quick answers from websites and threads, the time required to seriously look into these questions by reading books is not for everyone.

Other possible benefits may include no longer having a two dimensional picture of Islam, realizing that it is not subjugation to other people. Surprise may even ensue when you realize that within its history were societies of such open religious freedom that Caliphs would host debates between religious scholars of different religions, that some Muslims consider Plato and Buddha as prophets, and that there were even medieval schools of rationalism. Some feel silly for whitewashing an entire 1400 year old culture(s) by one Islamaphobic brushstroke.
edit on 6-6-2015 by AudioOne because: (no reason given)



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