HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

a reply to: NavyDoc

Hush. You're supposed to be off somewhere thinking.

LOL I already understood you way before. No need to "think".

You are the one who needs to think.

a reply to: undo

i agree that gays should not be discriminated against. i don't agree that we should force people not to discriminate because it doesn't stop people from being racist.

What solution would you offer? Better solution than anti-discrimination law?

This is the best we got.

Some people have suggested just let them discriminate because people will stop going there and they will go out of business. Few of us have stated and explained that that will never work.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

well that's the problem. currently it has all the earmarks of being used as a tool to drive some christian business owners into poverty and worse, if it gets out of hand entirely. and if that is the actual plan, it won't matter if the christian business owner makes the cake / flower / pizza or not, the next will be some other complaint, and then another and another. and each will get more nit picky than the last.

a reply to: undo

currently it has all the earmarks of being used as a tool to drive some christian business owners into poverty and worse, if it gets out of hand entirely.

No it doesn't. Christian business owners will do fine.

the next will be some other complaint, and then another and another. and each will get more nit picky than the last.

Nah. This still is about race, sexual orientation, beliefs, etc.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

it doesn't matter. once you give a group in a society that kind of control over another person's livelihood based on difference of world views / biology, like the slave masters before the civil war, it's really hard to rein them back in. if any one group gets that kind of control over laws directly effecting a particular religious belief/racial group (and let's face it, christians are the only targets for this), it's hard for it not be abused. government is supposed to keep that in check but it won't if the government is complicit.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Deaf Alien

well, i made this point earlier:

i agree that gays should not be discriminated against. i don't agree that we should force people not to discriminate because it doesn't stop people from being racist.

Let's use the disabled instead of race.

Let's not force businesses to allow a disabled person in their store. Other customers might feel uncomfortable.

There's too much danger of them falling - - the insurance company wouldn't like it.

They can find another store - - but Hey! They might have to walk a mile because parking is not easily accessible.

Who cares. Can't force equal treatment.

a reply to: undo

and let's face it, christians are the only targets for this

No they are not. Everyone is targeted.

a reply to: Annee

excellent point.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: undo

and let's face it, christians are the only targets for this

No they are not. Everyone is targeted.

no they aren't, and we know that. so i'm not going to pretend they are.

a reply to: undo

It may "seem" that the Christians are the only ones being targeted. Christian bakers refusing to bake cake for gay wedding was all over the news. Etc. Etc.

But you need to remember that different kinds of people have been targeted in our history.

Businesses refusing service to black people back then. Was that Christians doing?

Women being considered lower class than men. Was that Christians doing?

And so on and on. You get the gist.

But in a way you may be right. It does seem that they target the Christians specifically.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

and christians voted for, argued in defense of, civil rights and marched with martin luther, and died in the civil war on the premise they were freeing the slaves (whether that was the ultimate motive behind the scenes by the upper echelons of power, is irrelevant, since the people thought that's what they were fighting for). christians also bought the music and movies, and made famous, many black actors and musicians. i am getting f'in tired of hearing how some christians, behaved badly at any point in history. this does not justify treating christians as a whole badly, centuries or even decades later.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Annee

excellent point.

Thanks.

You'd be surprised, well maybe not, at how many posters tell me not to use disability in these discussions. That it doesn't apply.

I think it makes them feel uncomfortable. They can't really make excuses.

a reply to: Annee

yeah there's really no valid argument against that. it is what it is.

a reply to: undo

Maybe some do treat Christians badly today. And yes that is never justified.

But you need to remember that some Christians (read Fundies) treat gay people badly. So that's where the hatred comes from.

A gay person shouldn't be refused to have cake made for wedding for example. This is mistreatment.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Annee

yeah there's really no valid argument against that. it is what it is.

Nope. And I lived it first hand from age 5 on up.

Not your brothers next door neighbors cousin once removed telling a story they once saw on the Internet

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: undo

Maybe some do treat Christians badly today. And yes that is never justified.

But you need to remember that some Christians (read Fundies) treat gay people badly. So that's where the hatred comes from.

A gay person shouldn't be refused to have cake made for wedding for example. This is mistreatment.

i am reluctant to call it mistreatment. i think it would be better stated as misinterpretation of the words of jesus but since that can't be used in a court of law, ya have to call it mistreatment. and not all fundies are anti-gay to the point of refusing to sell them products. just some. this is why this entire thing is so insidious. in a population of 318 million, a sizeable chunk of which is christian, you are sure to find enough cases of people who misinterpret those words of jesus, to make it seem like all christians are a problem. it's how hitler pulled off his schtick in germany and stalin managed to convince the russian soldiers that starving the ukrainians to death slowly, in their own homes, was a good idea.

p.s. you will also find in a population of people who identify as christian but who don't necessarily practice it, homophobia just cause people are naturally leery about anything out of the norm. doesn't make it right, but homophobia is not a christian problem, specifically. it's a human problem. i don't think christians who don't want to provide catering services to gay weddings are homophobics, strictly speaking, but rather are adhering to what they believe to be sound christian doctrine but which in my view, is misinterpretation.

a reply to: undo

but homophobia is not a christian problem. it's a human problem.

Come to think of it, you could be right. Some use religion as a disguise for their homophobia. However some people do believe that being gay is wrong and they are not homophobes. I know a few.

But you could be on to something.

This will probably go over like a lead balloon, but I thought it might be fun to share what Rush Limbaugh had to say today about this. (It's been edited down a bit for length)

Enjoy:

Did you hear about the guy that walked into a Muslim bakery in Dearborn, Michigan, and he told them that he wanted them to bake a cake for his gay wedding, and he was turned down.

And everybody's asking, where's the outrage?
It's not about that. You would expect that if there's anti-gay bigotry, there's anti-gay bigotry, wherever it is, it's unacceptable. And so [this guy] just found some anti-gay bigotry in a Dearborn, Michigan, Muslim bakery.

You see, folks, this isn't about anti-gay bigotry. If it were, there would be just as much outrage at this Muslim bakery, but they don't care. The Drive-Bys, the militant gays, they don't care.
They went shopping for this in Indiana.
They went shopping for it New Mexico.
They went shopping for it in Oregon.
They went shopping for it in Colorado.

This is not about expanding gay rights.
The first thing you've got to know, all of this, in Indiana, this is not about discrimination against gays.
They want you to think it is, and the action being taken, the outrage, the media, this is not about expanding gay rights, it's not about eliminating discrimination, that's not at all what's going on here.

This is an all-out assault on Christianity, traditional value Americans and so forth and so on. It's all about attacking and delegitimizing a so-called dangerous, mean-spirited, extremist, majority made up primarily of Christians.

They don't care what the Muslims are doing. They don't care that there's anti-gay bigotry in Dearborn, Michigan. Doesn't matter. It's not about that. This is not about gay rights. It's not about civil rights.

That's the cover story.

This is not about helping people being discriminated against. This is about shifting power.
This is about taking power away from an existing majority -- in this case the white, Christian majority -- taking it away by virtue of intimidation and transferring that power to left-wing fringe lunatics.

That's what this is about.

The reason why when a Muslim bakery in Dearborn denies a gay guy a cake for his wedding, the militant leftists are not gonna touch that, is because they don't want to do battle with militant Muslims.
They know the militant Muslims are not gonna lay down. All you've gotta do is draw a cartoon of their prophet and they'll come after you.

But Christians? There aren't any militant Christians. Christians bow down. They're nice to you. They try to respect you. They try to appease you. They want to assure you they don't hate you.

As such, they are the perfect foils. That's why it's not gonna matter. The media isn't gonna care. The very fact that this Muslim bakery in Dearborn refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding is not news, should tell you that this is not about gay anything.

This is not about discrimination. It's not about bigotry. It's not about civil rights or any of that.
It's about usurping power. It's about a minority intimidating a majority into giving up its power.

And most Christians don't even run around cognizant of power, because most Christians are not trying to impose anything on anybody. But militant leftists walking around in constant anger, misery, and fear are convinced that Christians are trying to force 'em how to live, make 'em do things they don't want to do, and then sitting in judgment about.

When most people don't care, until you involve them. When you try to corrupt them, and when you go to them and you make them tacitly endorse or support things you do that they disagree with, then they will tell you they want no part of it. But they don't exercise their power trying to get you to agree with them.

They stand up for traditional marriage, but even that is not an "assault." That's not an "attack" on anybody. It's a defense posture! So what we have here has nothing to do with civil rights, nothing to do with the Religious Freedom Restoration Acts.

All of that's irrelevant, because that's not what the aim is here.

This is pure, raw, undiluted intimidation for the purpose of seizing power.

www.rushlimbaugh.com...

a reply to: IAMTAT

LOL thanks for the laugh. His rant is so off it isn't funny but yet it's funny. So much of his rant is so untrue.

Typical Fundie homophobic rant.