Israel must end its 50-year occupation of Palestine, the White House says

It is from a lame duck President that is powerless.
Furthermore Israel's PM just promised never to allow a Palestinian State in his term.

This is perfect Obama diplomacy, exclaim things that he knows he will not have to act on. Meanwhile his golf card is full.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Reading through the whole thread I find the debate very interesting. A lot of people talk about which side is right and which is wrong. That is an ideology Debate, and if you want to talk about right and wrong than people dying is wrong.
This goes for any conflict, the environment for conflict is created when two opposing ideologies cannot reach a compromise so conflict is a result. The only way you can truly understand a conflict is by knowing the opposition has the same level of conviction and resolve is you. We are all kidding ourselves if we think conflict is a good resolution, I'm no nieve sometimes it's the only resolution *rarely* but compromise is usually the only long term solution.

Take the conflict with Russia, I'd imagine their biggest complaint is us treating them like they are not a world power combined with a condescending tone towards any disagreement. Everyone in this world is prideful, and when you act like your agenda is more important or "just" than theirs you created an environment for conflict.

Killing is wrong. Let there be no mistake, progress is impossible if our behavior can be compared to that of decades ago which we've "moved past".

Very sincere post. I would only add that Israel is blatant in their subversion and aggression. And when 100 countries, that all of intelligence agencies, come to the conclusion that Israel is in the wrong and vote accordingly, USA always comes in to veto punishment. I think that is what gets the people going.

AAC

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
It is from a lame duck President that is powerless.
Furthermore Israel's PM just promised never to allow a Palestinian State in his term.

This is perfect Obama diplomacy, exclaim things that he knows he will not have to act on. Meanwhile his golf card is full.

Oh but you're wrong. Israel is super sensitive about their image. Obama is doing everything in his power yo reveal their true colors. That's worth it's weight in gold.

I can only hope that when another UN sanction or punishment is levied towards Israel, obama refuses to veto it.

AAC

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

As I said before and I'll shorten it in the spirit of keeping a thread trimmed in hopes of not losing the point. As much of an atrocity as the holocaust was, it saddens me that the world and more importantly the people affected, still allow treatment like this to another people purely for difference in beliefs.
I am not religious but was raised as such and I do remember a lot of the readings. I have read plenty of other religions writing and I find beauty in all and it saddens me to see them perverted for individual gain. But read the story of Ishmael in the old testament should you truly be curious on this topic and you will find an interesting relationship between Judaism Islam and subsequently Christianity. All coexist by the own writings of their religion.
Until people can accept others to be different, then expect it, then find how diversity makes us flourish; and after all that realize we are FUC#ING equals. There will be conflict where everyone is wrong, scour the forum and find this between all nations.

And ironically enough most religion preaches love. Yet idealism fuels all conflict.

MY VIEW-----ITS TIME INTERPOL CIA AND FBI ----TAKE CHARGE-----USA MEANS ALOT------we cant trust JUST ONE ORGANIZATION OR THEOTHER--------------BUT MOST LISTED ARE VERY CLOSE TO AMERICANS-----------TO ME THIS COUNTRY IS FREE-------BUT OVER THEIR THEIR DOING SOMETHING WRONG LIKE OPPRESSING----------BUT WE DONT WANT THEM TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STAY IN POWER IF THEY ARE THE PROBLEM-------THE USA MUST WORK WITH NATO-INTERPOL CIA AND FBI---------AND THE IDIOTS OVER THERE WILL OBEY------BECAUSE WE KNOW IF THEY DONT OBEY------WE ALL KNOW WHAT THEY CAN DO TOGETHER...........BUT WE KNOW ISRAEL HAS WORKED WITH RUSSIA-------ROSENBURGS COME TO MIND-------WE KNOW THEY STOLE US HARD WORKING PEOPLES IDEAS AND TECHNOLOGY AND SOCIAL RESPECT-----BE AMERICAN BEASTS FROM THEMIDEAST----BUT WHO WILL READ THIS SINCE RUSSIA WILL SHORT CIRCUIT OUR ABBILITY TO ACCOMPLISH CONTROL CAPABILITY.......BUT WE KNOW THEY SURE STIRRED THINGS UP DIDNT THEY ____OVER THERE.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Absolutely.

This world is a conundrum of epic proportions.

AAC

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

This is my last post to you. Obviously you ignore or deny proof given to you so its nto worth the effort.

The information I posted shows a pattern of arab countries and russian interference in the conflict.

Arafatt started the FATAH who took over the PLO and later the PA.They continue his work to this day.

Even IF they returned to pre 49 borders it would not be good enough.

My information for for everyone else anyway.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: daaskapital

Your title is misleading.

They talk about the occupation of the Palestinian territories, not 'Palestine'.

If anyone would READ the truth you would all learn there is no Palestinian territory. JORDAN is where the Arabs are supposed to be. The Arabs are occupying ISRAELI land!!!!!! Jordan was made a nation, specifically for them when the UN gave some of the land back that was Israel before the Arabs stole it from the Byzantine Christians and Jews.

The Arabs attacked Israel 3 times after 1947, so Israel has every right to keep the land they got back in 1967 from Jordan never mind it is ISRAELI LAND and has been since 3000 BC. Just because the Arabs invaded and STOLE the land from them, then forced them into exile in 638 does not make it Arab land. Especially WHEN THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT LAND, They only want the Jews dead. It was a barren wasteland under Arab control as NOTHING would grow in the soil as GOD has made the land fertile for the Jews and Christians ONLY. The Arabs do not even care about the so called Mosque, the dome of the rock. They play soccer there for pete sakes, let alone trash the place every time they act like they are protecting it by rioting.

Jordan is the nation who will not take its people back just so the Arabs can constantly be a thorn in Israels backside.

The TRUTH below, stop the lies!!!!!!

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

The proof is also written in STONE in the Egyptian national museum as well.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: PatriotsrevengeThe Arabs attacked Israel 3 times after 1947, so Israel has every right to keep the land they got back in 1967 from Jordan never mind it is ISRAELI LAND and has been since 3000 BC.

Says who?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

This is my last post to you. Obviously you ignore or deny proof given to you so its nto worth the effort.

What proof? All you have done is quoted a dead guy saying that he'd never be satisfied. But those words came from the earlier times of his life. Towards the end, Arafat was working with world leaders to come to a mutual understanding. In fact, before arafats death, he actually public ally recognized Israel as a soveirgn country.

So stop trying to use earlier quotes from him as if he died believing that. Arafat actually recognized israels right to exist. Many people believe the Mossad poisoned Arafat because they were afraid he'd actually negotiate peace with world leaders. Dude, I swear you are absolutely wrong. I realize you don't see it yet, but keep an open mind.

The information I posted shows a pattern of arab countries and russian interference in the conflict.

No. It does not. Let's break it down.

1. Israel steals land from Palestine.
2. Britain officially recognize Israel as a country within specific borders. They are forbidden to displace local Arabs or expand their settlements. Israel ignores all these demands.
3. Israel starts stealing water resources by redirecting rivers away from Egypt and Syria.
4. Israel shoots down Syrian airplanes over Syrian airspace.
5. Syria and Egypt and Jordan block the straights in response to stealing their water and shooting down plans.
6. USSR leaks wrong info about Israel about to invade.
7. Syria Egypt and Jordan mobilize soldiers to protect themselves.
8. Israel surprise bombs all of their airfields and planes then invades the countries and annexes their land.
9. UN Resolution 242 tells Israel that they are illegally occupy land and the need to go back to pre 67 borders.
10. Israel has yet to comply with international law.

There I made it simple for you. Tell me where Israel was attacked.

ARafat started the FATAH who took over the PLO and later the PA.They continue his work to this day.

With all do respect its obvious you only have a surface understanding of things. There's no shame in admitting you just don't grasp the situation and go back and learn unbiasdly.

Even IF they returned to pre 49 borders it would not be good enough.

Pre 49 borders would be great. But I assume you mean 67.

My information for for everyone else anyway.

Not good enough.

AAC

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: daaskapital

Your title is misleading.

They talk about the occupation of the Palestinian territories, not 'Palestine'.

If anyone would READ the truth you would all learn there is no Palestinian territory. JORDAN is where the Arabs are supposed to be. The Arabs are occupying ISRAELI land!!!!!! Jordan was made a nation, specifically for them when the UN gave some of the land back that was Israel before the Arabs stole it from the Byzantine Christians and Jews.

The Arabs attacked Israel 3 times after 1947, so Israel has every right to keep the land they got back in 1967 from Jordan never mind it is ISRAELI LAND and has been since 3000 BC. Just because the Arabs invaded and STOLE the land from them, then forced them into exile in 638 does not make it Arab land. Especially WHEN THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THAT LAND, They only want the Jews dead. It was a barren wasteland under Arab control as NOTHING would grow in the soil as GOD has made the land fertile for the Jews and Christians ONLY. The Arabs do not even care about the so called Mosque, the dome of the rock. They play soccer there for pete sakes, let alone trash the place every time they act like they are protecting it by rioting.

Jordan is the nation who will not take its people back just so the Arabs can constantly be a thorn in Israels backside.

The TRUTH below, stop the lies!!!!!!

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

The proof is also written in STONE in the Egyptian national museum as well.

en.wikipedia.org...

Wow. Another lost mind regurgitating the excuses of thieves.

AAC

a reply to: yuppa

I hope we figure this debate out so that we can move on to US vs Libya Syria Russia Iraq Yemen and Afghanistan. The world is a cluster of passing contests to who's right. What if everyone is wrong.

originally posted by: AnAbsoluteCreation

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
It is from a lame duck President that is powerless.
Furthermore Israel's PM just promised never to allow a Palestinian State in his term.

This is perfect Obama diplomacy, exclaim things that he knows he will not have to act on. Meanwhile his golf card is full.

Oh but you're wrong. Israel is super sensitive about their image. Obama is doing everything in his power yo reveal their true colors. That's worth it's weight in gold.

Obama is super polarizing the thing. Extremely dangerous foreign policy if thats what you want to call it. This is causing polarization domestically as well. Its the sort of thing that could finally end the Democratic party in the US.

a reply to: Logarock

Either way. Israel is a take take take ally without any give.

They have cost us so much financially and economically that on paper they could be considered an enemy at worst and major liability at least.

I applaud obama for standing up to them. And I didn't vote for Obama.

AAC.

a reply to: daaskapital

That land was given to Israel by GOD, and recovered for them by GOD. They will give nothing back to those heathens. It rightfully belong to Israel. I hate that innocents are dying over there, but GOD gives and GOD takes as he will. The Palestinians are from the seed of Cain and the bloodline is cursed.

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Abrahams first born son was to father a great nation. Abrahams first son was the best are child Ishmael, who fathered Islam. That is old testament text, religions are still required to follow their other text, love thy neighbor, do not kill so on and so forth. Jesus hated religion for man perverts it, as they pervert jihad.

originally posted by: daaskapital
It is only right that they get their freedom and self-determination.

Palestinians have freedom and self-determination. They elect Hamas and choose war. If they had no freedom this wouldn't be possible.

They have been given every opportunity for a peaceful settlement. Nothing appeases them. They are in control of the holiest Jewish site, for goodness sake. The death cult religion in which they fervently believe demands that Jerusalem becomes the capital of the caliphate. This is the end goal and necessitates genocide. They stall the peace processes because they know a two state solution only hinders this plan.

They need to cry to the world about being oppressed and stateless, so that empty minded westerners will continue to excuse the perpetual bloodshed, domestic rocket industry, tunnel digging for suicide attacks, executing their own protesters and training little boys in the use of AK47s.

Cameras caught the Palestinians jumping for joy on 9/11. Hint to pro-Palestinian westerners: your life means nothing to them and they'd be happy to see you dead just as much as they would the Israelis. Why pacifists and anti-war campaigners are so supportive and vocal for people who preach Jihad to child soldiers and blow up buses full of Israeli school children amazes me. Hypocrites.

If you lived on land they wanted for the caliphate you'd be forced to strike back too for your own survival. Make no mistake, what happened to the Yazidis and Kurds is exactly what would happen to Israel if she was defenseless. Just look what became of many Jewish towns in Mohammed's time - totally depopulated, all men executed, women murdered and sexually enslaved, on his direct orders. This is the material these people read. If they're oppressed then it's a good thing.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Abrahams first born son was to father a great nation. Abrahams first son was the best are child Ishmael, who fathered Islam. That is old testament text, religions are still required to follow their other text, love thy neighbor, do not kill so on and so forth. Jesus hated religion for man perverts it, as they pervert jihad.

Umm there were a few stipulations that were not met for ishmail to be the king of the israelis/jews/hebrews.

Remember God said Abraham and HIS WIFE SARAH as in SARAH HERSELF will bear the child. SARAHS FIRST not HAGGARS first. God didnt say That Sarah would get someone else to have their first born. Good try to slide that past though. So justbecause Ishmail was born before ishmail he was not OF SARAH HIMSELF. Also If Abraham believed ishmail to be the first he would not had exiled them would he?

The diplomatic situation is the same as it was decades ago, what do you think is going to change? Did either side ever concede one major thing? The Israelis and Palestinians simply accepted the way things were and got on with their lives. The decades of sameness have "solved" a problem which apparently never existed. The world has moved on to more pressing matters. Obama is not the first President to make busy sounds about Israel, then find something more useful to do.
a reply to: daaskapital

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: daaskapital

That land was given to Israel by GOD, and recovered for them by GOD. They will give nothing back to those heathens. It rightfully belong to Israel. I hate that innocents are dying over there, but GOD gives and GOD takes as he will. The Palestinians are from the seed of Cain and the bloodline is cursed.

You just proved the point as to why they should not occupy the land. Ironically taking it into the other direction.

The god excuse is weak to justify their occupation.