Israel must end its 50-year occupation of Palestine, the White House says

a reply to: matafuchs

How about the Bush Laden family planning alongside MOSSAD & the House of Saud to fly planes into an "allies" compatriots only to blame it on everyone deemed a threat to the aforementioned terror States to control Oil and airspace as well as heroin production!!!



That's a pretty B-Movie is it not?

Quote instead of edit!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: MystikMushroom

That's idiotic, the UN isn't nuclear, Israel is. Anyone who seriously tries to destroy the country of Israel will get nuked before they succeed. Anyone who thinks differently is deluding themselves.

If Iran gets too close to successfully creating nukes, they will get nuked... plain and simple. Israel understands that any Islamic country who successfully gets nukes will use them on Israel, they won't let it happen.

Jaden

Then take away Israel's nukes.


Because I'm fearful of a Judaic country having them as they're the most likely to use them (see SAMSON Option)!!!



Or is that anti-Semitic?


Arab haters & Persian haters everywhere on these boards.

The only problem with that is who would take the nukes away? The US will never do it as long as there's a strong Pro-Israeli Evangelical demographic. And I don't think any other country would be allowed close enough to try.

Though to be honest, I'm beginning to believe they don't really have them in the 1st place. I'm tempted to start a thread on my reasonings for this but I'll wait for now

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AnAbsoluteCreation
Haha. You disregard heavy evidence and then reply with that? You are brainwashed.

Anyone would've walked away from those negotiations. Don't act like it was a real two-state solution. That it was not. Jews were only 7% of population and being given 55% of the land. More importantly, the land with access to all the water resources. That wasn't a solution, it was a joke.

Please, don't even reply if you're going to respond with that negligence.

AAC

Your ignorance is astounding.

800,000 Jews vs. 1,200,000 Arabs. 7% of the population? Simply false, like everything else you claim.

First off, where did you get those numbers? Secondly my text was a typo it was supposed to say 37%. (iPad typing is not easy). Needless to say, israels numbers skyrocketed by their illegal immigration from German prior to wwii. Look up the history, Britain stopped the immigration into Palestine by jews during the late 1930s.

Even with your inflated numbers, why would a people that had been there for 1,000 years want yo give over half their land, all of the water resource control to a people that just started showing up?

But I do like how you ignored the rest of my points. You are the worst type of debater. You refuse to look at facts because you don't want to be wrong. But guess what, you're wrong.

AAC.

a reply to: daaskapital Yes, right after the U.S. returns CA to Mexico.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: daaskapital

Theres a slight problem with that. Dont the white house realize that "palestinians" ALl genrations before and up until the death of yasser arafatt were not really related to anyone there? Dont tell me the whitehouse cannot find the off mike comments Arafatt and PLO leadership have made throwing their claim into the trash bin of being palestinian. Im a paraphrase arafatt. one minute we are refugees the next we are majically palestinians.

Palestinians need to provide 100 percent proof before forcing them to give land back. IF anything the land should revert to the owners before the 7 day war. Not to the palestinians anyway. Although put in a stipulation on the return. DMZ zone it. If they violate the DMZ(other than acidentally) the land reverts back to Israel.

You're missing the point. Most people living in those territories were born there, aren't wanted anywhere and are treated like scum by the Israelis. Who, incidentally try to block all aid and Palestinian hope for interacting with the international community. The Israelis hold all the power. Treat Palestinians like people and that will start peace. Let's not bring up the past, it complicates things. I've been in the military, own a business, been a manager in other businesses, help run a family and been an elected official. I know how life and leadership work. If there's a problem, you fix it right then and there and don't lament and cry about the past. The never helps anything. What can be done right now.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

If it's anything like my theory I'd be surprised...

However, I doubt they have nukes as well.



My original point was more hyperbolic...
Let Israel have them...

The main point I was highlighting was is it enough for someone to say "they shouldn't have them, they'd use them on us" and that then is the deciding factor...


If we were allowed to have a Planetary vote on it, Israel would lose their nukes over night.

Does anyone in the White House understand The West Bank use to be called Judea.But the land was fought over so much from idiots that will not learn history that it turns everyone into crazed hate and political madness.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

They destroyed the AF in a day because there are no hardened bunkers. The airstrikes saved 1000's of lives by not attacking head on in the first day of the war. Israel was not an aggressor, but did not feel like getting its ass kicked when it was being surrounded on all side. A one on one fight is one thing. If 5 people are going to kick your ass I am not going wait till 3 start to throw blows.

Palestine is a once beautiful country that has been controlled by other countries historically and recently held hostage by radicals and Islam. There has NEVER been a true Palestinian state. The current state that is there was instilled by the British after the fall of the Ottoman empire. After WW1, not WW2, Britain promised a homeland for the Jewish people to return. The Jewish people did not just show up fleeing Nazi Germany after WW2.

Blinded by what we read in a modern time is a scary thing. Find a history book written before the 1920's and you will be suprised how different the story is.

While your reply has elements of truth. Please consider this: First, there is zero evidence any Arab country was going to attack Israel. Israeli archives quote Israeli generals saying Israel is in no threat of attack. Mossad sent out a rumor (verified in declassified war docs) that Israel was going to invade Syria and Egypt in a surprise attack. This cause Egypt and Syria to mobilize soldiers at their borders.

But then Israel attack their airfields rather than an invasion. Use your common sense, if Egypt was prepared to attack Israel, why weren't their planes on alert? Because this was all deception by Israel to take control of the water supply.

I challenge you to forget what you think you know, then start researching this conflict without bias. I assure you that you will see the real picture of israels deception. Hell, they even admit it years later. Look at the us liberty for crying out loud, the senior Israeli pilot was arrested for refusing yo bomb the American ship.

And if you want to get technical. Palestine was promised yo the Arabs by Britain first. The Brits ask the Arabs to help fight the Ottoman Empire and in return would give Palestine back to them. You remember the movie Lawrence of Arabia? Yeah, that really happened. But then the Balfour declaration and holocoust changed the plan and reneged on the Arabs.

You can know history even if it's wrong. By ou my friend are a believer of a false history.

AAC

originally posted by: matafuchs
Israel provides medical assistance, water and even power at no cost to the Palestinian people. It is those who have hijacked the country that should be blamed. Humanitarian effort is huge between the two countries but that is not in the MSM. Nope. Israel is the devil. I mean, really, it scares me how many people buy into this. It is no different than Nazi propoganda in the modern day.The fact our administration will not meet with them but will back Iranian led attacks with airstrikes in Iraq while Iranian backed terror groups in Yemen are attempting as coup is frightening. There are at this time in history NO sides that can be seen. Shia/#es conflict can only be blamed for so long but it has been this was for 1000 years....

Also, By definition, an aggressor is one who attacks first and invades...without provocation. Nazi Germany into Poland...yes. Defending ones own country when there are masses at the border...no. I would have laid waste to Egypt forces like they did. The Art of War states...'Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected'....

Palestine has been a battleground for about 4000 years.

However, if Israel did attack first, as you agree, it means their occupation is illegal.

That's the point Sun Tzu

AAC

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Six day war 1

READ that all the way through. Im searching for the war plans and if they are available will post them.

six day war 2

More backround.

Six day war three SOVIET connection?

Interesting. so the Soviets were feeding the Syrians Dis info and then the egyptians false info because once again they wanted to attack the US and NATO by proxy. Interesting. And backs up the KGB helping arafatt and fatah.

well well well after further digging here is something interesting on the soviet angle. link follows.

Six day war soviet involvement

Oh and johnson state department report. Yeah i know its off a jew site suspend your dislike and read this document though.

State department report on war

After reading every link. I can only assume you are now in agreement of the story I'm presenting? Because every link you provided could have been used by me as evidence to my position.

Please explain.

AAC

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: buster2010

read my links. illuminates Arafatts motivations in one of them. they wanted even the 48 borders gone and still want that.

@everyone else read my links on page 6

No. That's not what any of your links claim. And even if they did, that's not what is being disputed. Israel is illegally occupying land. They need to recede to pre 67 borders to be in compliance.

Just because you paraphrase Arafat means nothing.

I'm sure you can quote people in Texas who want to be their own country again. That's still not the point.

Nice try though.

AAC

originally posted by: matafuchs
and who the hell is the White House to tell Israel anything? They meet with you tube sensations but snubbed the Israeli leadership during a recent visit? We are talking to Iran and not Israel. Are Israelis burning the US flag in the streets? We gave Afghanistan 3 times as much aid last year than Israel but we pulled out...right? What about the trade for the deserter that allowed Taliban leaders to go home???

Just as we are letting Iran move forward with creating the bomb the US has also released documents showing that Israel has the bomb based on past intel. We are slitting the throat of allies and empowering terror supporting nations.

Want to know why the US just declared Hezzbollah and Iran non terrorist nations. Because we started bombing areas in Iraq this week backing who? IRAN!!!! WTF is going on folks...You have us supporting those who are attacking our own bases in Yemen. The current admin supported those who attacked Benghazi. They are making you look at Israel when it is doing things in other places..with Islam!

A US president with a Muslim name who's head adviser is from Iran...you could not write this # any better in a B movie.....

Wow. Such arrogance! The US is literally the only reason Israel hasn't been hammered with sanctions, war crimes, and more at the UN. What would Israel be without the $100 BILLION and growing in miltary aid from the US? Or the billions the US gives every year to Israel's former enemies so they won't attack you (like Egypt)? In fact, the US gives far more to Israel than I have the time to list. But this site is a good start. I would personally love to see the reaction from the ungrateful Israeli right wing if the US did stop propping them up.

As for Pres Obama having a "Muslim name who's head adviser is from Iran", so what? Muslims have been in the African American community literally from the beginning since 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims. And there's nothing in our Constitution that outlaws or even discriminates against Islam. So why should that be an issue? And maybe you don't know this, but Iran was a US ally under the Shah & had working relations with them under Pres Rafsanjani, not to mention during the Iran-Contra scandal. So why should the US reject Iranians who are willing to work with us?

As for the US bombing areas in Iraq supposedly in support of Iran. First, I don't believe you b/c I haven't seen any proof of this. But even if it were true, maybe that's because Iran's actually fighting against ISIS while the Saudis, Qatar, Turkey and Israel are actually helping them. Israel's even recently been shown to provide aid to al-Qaeda fighters in Syria (though I'm sure you've already read this, right?). So why should the US be against Iran in Iraq if they're the ones actually going after ISIS?

And it's funny that you mention the US soldier who, as you put it, "allowed Taliban leaders to go home", because the current Afghan President is acknowledging that the Taliban has legitimate grievances for being tortured, and the such.

So maybe our current US President is simply realizing that the US has been misled for too long by supposed allies. Maybe he's simply sick of ungrateful allies who are all too willing to take American aid while backstabbing us in private, while aiding our enemies, and while trying to provoke wars that Americans will end up fighting.

Oh & why should it matter to you that the US "leaked" info that says Israel has the bomb? Haven't hasbara propagandists been saying this for decades? Isn't "the Samson Option" common knowledge now? There's even a book on Amazon with that title, not that I'm promoting it. This is already such an open secret, why does it matter if it's told? What does Israel have to hide? And for the record, Iran's Supreme Leader has already stated many times that a nuclear weapon would be against Islam, so Iran has forbidden it. Though I doubt you care about that

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: buster2010

READ and dont just skim this time

they still want vengeance for 1917. Its in there read it and stop being so disingenious. Crap the last link i posted on page 6 was a report to johnson himself.

how come you dont blame russia for its False/faulty intelligence further destablizing that conflict?

Also Israel didnt INVADE when they did the pre emptive strike. earlier that week syrians came into israeli airspace first so technically that could be considered a act of war correct?

I read the whole thing (cause that's what I do) and you're wrong. Even promoting that reality in the face of all the other evidence is irresponsible. Who cares about Arafat and your feelings about his intentions. That is a moot point.

AAC

It was our fault how it began .. now we trying to blame!

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Does anyone in the White House understand The West Bank use to be called Judea.But the land was fought over so much from idiots that will not learn history that it turns everyone into crazed hate and political madness.

And long before that, the land belonged to the black Canaanites. So maybe their ancestors should get 1st dibs then. After all, the land was theirs according to their beliefs first.

originally posted by: yuppa
The Library of Congress US Federal Research Division offered the following in its 1990 Country Studies/Area Handbook on Israel:
"On April 6, 1967, Israeli jet fighters shot down six Syrian planes over the Golan Heights, which led to a further escalation of Israeli-Syrian tensions. The Soviet Union, wanting to involve Egypt as a deterrent to an Israeli initiative against Syria, misinformed Nasser on May 13 that the Israelis were planning to attack Syria on May 17 and that they had already concentrated eleven to thirteen brigades on the Syrian border for this purpose. In response Nasser put his armed forces in a state of maximum alert, sent combat troops into Sinai, notified UN Secretary General U Thant of his decision 'to terminate the existence of the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) on United Arab Republic (UAR) soil and in the Gaza Strip,' and announced the closure of the Strait of Tiran...

The actual fighting was over almost before it began; the Israeli Air Corps on June 5 destroyed nearly the entire Egyptian Air Force on the ground. King Hussein of Jordan, misinformed by Nasser about Egyptian losses, authorized Jordanian artillery to fire on Jerusalem. Subsequently, both the Jordanians in the east and the Syrians in the north were quickly defeated.

The June 1967 War was a watershed event in the history of Israel and the Middle East. After only six days of fighting, Israel had radically altered the political map of the region. By June 13, Israeli forces had captured the Golan Heights from Syria, Sinai and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, and all of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan. the new territories more than doubled the size of pre 1967 Israel, placing under Israel's control more than 1 million Palestinian Arabs. In Israel, the ease of the victory, the expansion of the state's territory, and the reuniting of Jerusalem, the holiest place in Judaism, permanently altered political discourse. In the Arab camp, the war significantly weakened Nasserism, and led to the emergence of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the leading representative of the Palestinian people and effective player in Arab politics."

(So according to that the arabs put up a BLOCKADE hmmm. Isn that a act of war? also they threatened tha UN force too. Som you can say that actually the Arabs started the war and at the time of the airstrike they were already at war so Buster your point is moot about Israel starting the war.

You are so desperate. "Isn't that act of war?" Haha. Come on man, be serious. Israel shot down Syrian planes over Golan heights... Who do you think governed golan heights then? Duh, not Israel.

The blockade was in response to Israel illegally diverted water away from Egypt and Jordan to their desert. (If you read all the post you would've learned this already).

So basically Israel was stealing their water. "Isn't that an act of war?" Hahaha.

AAC

originally posted by: matafuchs
and who the hell is the White House to tell Israel anything? They meet with you tube sensations but snubbed the Israeli leadership during a recent visit? We are talking to Iran and not Israel. Are Israelis burning the US flag in the streets? We gave Afghanistan 3 times as much aid last year than Israel but we pulled out...right? What about the trade for the deserter that allowed Taliban leaders to go home???

Just as we are letting Iran move forward with creating the bomb the US has also released documents showing that Israel has the bomb based on past intel. We are slitting the throat of allies and empowering terror supporting nations.

Want to know why the US just declared Hezzbollah and Iran non terrorist nations. Because we started bombing areas in Iraq this week backing who? IRAN!!!! WTF is going on folks...You have us supporting those who are attacking our own bases in Yemen. The current admin supported those who attacked Benghazi. They are making you look at Israel when it is doing things in other places..with Islam!

A US president with a Muslim name who's head adviser is from Iran...you could not write this # any better in a B movie.....

One day you will realize your stupidity and come to the conclusion that Israel is an enemy of America.

Israel was caught having prior knowledge of 9/11 and didn't tell us. What kind of ally is that? God you're falling right into the trap.

AAC

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Avicenne

You think Pakistan wouldn't have nuked India if India wasn't also a nuclear power???

Also, there have been several scares in the Intelligence community with fears of radical islamic factions getting control of Paks nuclear arsenal...

Jaden

What does India have to do with all this ??

You said any Islamic nation with nukes would use it on Israel. You're wrong.
On top of that, you're going on with your nonsense by bringing India in the discussion.

Reading through the whole thread I find the debate very interesting. A lot of people talk about which side is right and which is wrong. That is an ideology Debate, and if you want to talk about right and wrong than people dying is wrong.
This goes for any conflict, the environment for conflict is created when two opposing ideologies cannot reach a compromise so conflict is a result. The only way you can truly understand a conflict is by knowing the opposition has the same level of conviction and resolve is you. We are all kidding ourselves if we think conflict is a good resolution, I'm no nieve sometimes it's the only resolution *rarely* but compromise is usually the only long term solution.

Take the conflict with Russia, I'd imagine their biggest complaint is us treating them like they are not a world power combined with a condescending tone towards any disagreement. Everyone in this world is prideful, and when you act like your agenda is more important or "just" than theirs you created an environment for conflict.

Killing is wrong. Let there be no mistake, progress is impossible if our behavior can be compared to that of decades ago which we've "moved past".