I am Christian. If your world view is more rational than mine please come show me.

a reply to: Mister_Bit

My view is simply that I do not accept that the "big bang" is the beginning of our state of being.. I do not accept that science has the answers, I do not accept that the "big bang" came from nothing

So in short your world view is based solely on faith in yourself? I simply see no good reason to reject the big bang theory(nor have you presented any) and many reasons to accept it. According to the calculations done on General relativity by Hawkins, Ellis and Penrose space and time came into existence at a finite point that corresponds to the origin of energy and matter. In short I see many more reasons to believe the universe is finite than eternal. So IMO its more rational to believe it had a beginning.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

One of my buddies is a big fan of Alan watts I'll check it out and get back to you.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Glad to hear you're open to it.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Mister_Bit

My view is simply that I do not accept that the "big bang" is the beginning of our state of being.. I do not accept that science has the answers, I do not accept that the "big bang" came from nothing

So in short your world view is based solely on faith in yourself? I simply see no good reason to reject the big bang theory(nor have you presented any) and many reasons to accept it. According to the calculations done on General relativity by Hawkins, Ellis and Penrose space and time came into existence at a finite point that corresponds to the origin of energy and matter. In short I see many more reasons to believe the universe is finite than eternal. So IMO its more rational to believe it had a beginning.

I like the way you are defensive but it's becoming a little tedious now.

How can we discuss something if it is all one way traffic?

You ask me questions, I answer.... I ask you a question, you don't reply or give me another question.

I have already told you what I think of Hawkins, Ellis and science, mathematics and physics... so why bring them up as an answer? It means nothing to me. I don't accept what they say is the 200% undeniable truth. Man is prone to mistakes and misunderstandings, so why accept what they say... once upon a time science and great minds believed the world was flat, that man would never fly, that native Africans were devils.

What are you fishing for? Before I can answer you fully I need to know what it is you are after but you keep evading.

Faith in myself? What do you mean by that?

a reply to: Mister_Bit

I have tried to engage you in conversation but I find it is you who are the defensive one.

Just because I tell you why I find that to be less rationale than what I hold to doesn't mean I am defensive. I am merely giving you my opinion . The fact of the matter is, its up to the reader to determine who they feel is more rationale.


I have given you my opinions on what you said. I have a lot of people to respond to so if it take me time please just be patient.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I loved Alan... until his reconstructed personality AI ran off with Joaquin's OS on some trans-dimensional singularity honeymoon.

I usually don't do obscure film based quips... but I love Spike Jonz (Her- 2014).

a reply to: Mister_bit

I like the way you are defensive but it's becoming a little tedious now. How can we discuss something if it is all one way traffic?

How in any way was that defensive? We were discussing the cosmological argument and I gave you my reasons as to why I think a finite universe is more rational than an eternal universe...

You ask me questions, I answer.... I ask you a question, you don't reply or give me another question.

I didn't see a question ask it again and I will be glad to answer. I asked you another question to clarify your beliefs because I don't want to misrepresent them.

I have already told you what I think of Hawkins, Ellis and science, mathematics and physics... so why bring them up as an answer? It means nothing to me. I don't accept what they say is the 200% undeniable truth. Man is prone to mistakes and misunderstandings, so why accept what they say... once upon a time science and great minds believed the world was flat, that man would never fly, that native Africans were devils. What are you fishing for? Before I can answer you fully I need to know what it is you are after but you keep evading. Faith in myself? What do you mean by that?

You don't trust science math or human perception. So what I am rationalizing from that scope of reality is the only reason you believe the universe is eternal is because you think it is eternal. There is no rational basis its simply faith in yourself? I am not mocking that view in any way I just want to make sure that I understand it.

as we observe the world around us and learn about it we expand our world view. we just have to pay attention and learn - which is impossible if we only rely on old scriptures or what some self proclaimed "prophet" said.
it is much more helpful for our learning process and expansion of our consciousness that we start to assume that there is no higher authority above us that will babysit us. its our own responsibility to find out what is going on in the universe. it works well if everybody works together using a rational mind and common sense - it does not work if everybody bases his world-view on his own personal interpretation of "god".
my "world-view" is not more rational - it´s just better because it wont stop expanding.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: cody599

So by extension is the Jewish God, and the Muslim God. Same God so why are you so right the others so wrong ?

The topic of the thread was your world view. If you are jewish or muslim please tell me why you think it is more rational than someone who has a biblical world view.

My world view is simple.

I don't need a God to tell me how to be a good person, I know it instinctively, feel free to ask around ATS, I'll stand by my posts.
In my experience, my non religious are friends act in a more Christian manner than most so called Christians, we don't judge people by race, creed, colour or sexual orientation. You are who you are, and we get on or we don't, if we do so much the better, if not is the fault with me or with you ? That's a question I always ask myself.

At times I've realised the fault lies with me, and adjusted accordingly, I wish the same could be said of the others. But that's part of the point, I don't have a God to tell me how to behave, I have my introspection to judge myself, which is probably much harder.

It's hard to admit I'm wrong sometimes, but a pleasure to learn from it.

Cody

a reply to: Baddogma

Then why is the 'plan for salvation' so darned complex that it needs an instruction booklet... or book, while the moral compass is so succinct?

Hahahahah thats one of the funniest things to me when it comes to talking with other people. There is simplicity in Christ. The plan is not complex. It is a book because God foreshadowed the plan throughout our history. I made thread on this video not to long ago, but it does a great job at showing many of the ways the Bible foreshadows Jesus:



I personally have never understood why people always act like God requires some huge amount of work to get into heaven cause it definitely isn't about the work we do but the work Christ did.

a reply to: glowdog

as we observe the world around us and learn about it we expand our world view. we just have to pay attention and learn - which is impossible if we only rely on old scriptures or what some self proclaimed "prophet" said. it is much more helpful for our learning process and expansion of our consciousness that we start to assume that there is no higher authority above us that will babysit us. its our own responsibility to find out what is going on in the universe. it works well if everybody works together using a rational mind and common sense - it does not work if everybody bases his world-view on his own personal interpretation of "god". my "world-view" is not more rational - it´s just better because it wont stop expanding.

Correct me if I am wrong, but by your logic the worldview that has the most expansion is better. So should I create a world view with limitless possibilities regardless of rationality and call it the best? It could expand forever.....

originally posted by: cody599
I don't need a God to tell me how to be a good person, I know it instinctively, feel free to ask around ATS, I'll stand by my posts.

yeah isn't that why we have government and law officers?

I wonder where they got their crackpot ideas of policing us from?

a reply to: cody599

Well that tells me your ethical world view, and correct me if I misrepresent you, but it sounds to me that you believe that you know what is right and wrong instinctively(and my world view would agree). Does everyone know right and wrong instinctively or just you?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: cody599

Well that tells me your ethical world view, and correct me if I misrepresent you, but it sounds to me that you believe that you know what is right and wrong instinctively(and my world view would agree). Does everyone know right and wrong instinctively or just you?

I find that an interesting point as I was discussing your question with my partner(who is also on ATS as we speak).

I am not a christian or a follower of any religion.

I base my life on an internal understanding of right and wrong. This does not come from what I was taught as a child or a set of laws deemed suitable by society or a book written by anyone long ago.

In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.

It comes from within, I just know what is right and what is wrong, I do not judge, I do not promote hate or violence.

It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
I am Christian. I don't cling to any teachings other than the Bible.........................

So basically the question that is being posed here is if you think Christianity is wrong, what is the better more plausible option that you have come up with.

The creator God can not be known by any method of man through any book.The creator God can only reveal themselves to whom they will and how they will.Man cannot know the creator God by belief through faith of any method of religion (especially Christianity).Every belief through faith in the creator God is false and the person is creating a God in their own image (imagination) and likeness.Therefore your biblical view(which is unreasonable because there are a multitude of biblical views) is irrational and confirmation bias.

The basic tenants of Christianity are false because the foundation is false.Yahoshua did not start the religion Christianity a group of people called Christians did in the era of the disciples and John testified of them and called them antichrists who deceive many.Yahoshua also warned the disciples of what was to come of these many people.

“Do not be deceived. For many will come in my name and say they are christ and deceive many”.

This is a clear testimony testifying of Christianity as being deceived and deceivers yet Christianity is completely blind to it which is unreasonable.These are only a few clear rational reasons why all of Christianity is false.The cornerstone being Christianity does not “know” Yahoshua at all because they believe in the Jesus of Christianity myriad of biblical teachings.

To “know” Yahoshua is to know the creator God is deliverance/salvation for ALL of mankind.Not just the self chosen many are called.This is the foundation stone the builders rejected that defies the most unreasonable doctrine of Christianity.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: cody599

Well that tells me your ethical world view, and correct me if I misrepresent you, but it sounds to me that you believe that you know what is right and wrong instinctively(and my world view would agree). Does everyone know right and wrong instinctively or just you?

I find that an interesting point as I was discussing your question with my partner(who is also on ATS as we speak).

I am not a christian or a follower of any religion.

I base my life on an internal understanding of right and wrong. This does not come from what I was taught as a child or a set of laws deemed suitable by society or a book written by anyone long ago.

In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.

It comes from within, I just know what is right and what is wrong, I do not judge, I do not promote hate or violence.

It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.

but things are learned Tabula Rasa, we learn from experiencing others before we can even communicate with others...

so everything is an external force.

I personally think 'rational' is not the best word to describe a worldview regarding mysticisms. Just because one person's 'rational' is not necessarily the next person's.

There are some things man just cannot know, cannot comprehend. We don't even know for sure what happens before our births, or after our deaths (sentience-wise), or even fully how our brains work; so how can we be arrogant enough to think we know what happened at the beginning of something as unfathomably complex as the universe.(kudos to all who keep scratching at the surface, though)...both religions and science are/were man's attempt at explaining it. Competing models of physics seem like the present-day versions of competing denominations/religions to me.

If I could condense a 'worldview' out of my mossy brain's thoughts, I guess it would be that we are here (on this planet) by luck of the draw; what with our ideal distance from the sun and such, that we should try not to be douchebags to the other humans, that we should learn all we can about all things under and around the sun, but that there are some things we can absolutely never know for sure, until the time comes when we...cross over or whatever haha.

And to answer the other part of the question, I believe it's more rational than your world view simply because it is my world view. haha I can't put it any other way than that. (see first line, I guess)

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: cody599

Well that tells me your ethical world view, and correct me if I misrepresent you, but it sounds to me that you believe that you know what is right and wrong instinctively(and my world view would agree). Does everyone know right and wrong instinctively or just you?

I find that an interesting point as I was discussing your question with my partner(who is also on ATS as we speak).

I am not a christian or a follower of any religion.

I base my life on an internal understanding of right and wrong. This does not come from what I was taught as a child or a set of laws deemed suitable by society or a book written by anyone long ago.

In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.

It comes from within, I just know what is right and what is wrong, I do not judge, I do not promote hate or violence.

It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.

but things are learned Tabula Rasa, we learn from experiencing others before we can even communicate with others...

so everything is an external force.

I will agree to some degree but disagree on others.

What was socially aceptable to my parents whos job is was to instill moral values in me is unaceptable to me.

I was taught that homosexuality was wrong, that it was accepted to call those of a different race offensive names and that they were of a lower social standing than I was to name just a few.

I was taught that violence was acceptable under certain conditions yet I 100 percent disagree with all of these.

So where would you say I found these inner values, if not from my peers and not from religion?

a reply to: nonspecific

It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.

To be honest I agree with you. The problem I have the most is that many churches have fallen into only teaching what is Good and what is Bad. I for one feel a pastor has wasted my time if I go up to church and all I hear is the difference between a Good action and a Bad one. or how to quit sinning... these things are obvious as you have said...one doesn't need to be taught not to steal or murder they are obviously wrong.

If you agree with the idea that you know what is right and wrong instinctively do you also agree with the idea that you do not always do what you know is right?(I get you may try your best but do you fail sometimes?)

I would also have to ask if you believe there is truly and objective right and wrong then how do you rationalize that idea without some external standard of Good?

a reply to: Rex282

The creator God can not be known by any method of man through any book.The creator God can only reveal themselves to whom they will and how they will.Man cannot know the creator God by belief through faith of any method of religion (especially Christianity).Every belief through faith in the creator God is false and the person is creating a God in their own image (imagination) and likeness.Therefore your biblical view(which is unreasonable because there are a multitude of biblical views) is irrational and confirmation bias.

So I have no idea what you believe from this post other than Christianity is based on a false premise. You say the premise is false but give no reason for believing it is false other than because you think so....You also did nothing to provide a more rational view than Christianity.