It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I am Christian. If your world view is more rational than mine please come show me.

page: 6
12
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: cody599

Well that tells me your ethical world view, and correct me if I misrepresent you, but it sounds to me that you believe that you know what is right and wrong instinctively(and my world view would agree). Does everyone know right and wrong instinctively or just you?


I find that an interesting point as I was discussing your question with my partner(who is also on ATS as we speak).

I am not a christian or a follower of any religion.

I base my life on an internal understanding of right and wrong. This does not come from what I was taught as a child or a set of laws deemed suitable by society or a book written by anyone long ago.

In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.

It comes from within, I just know what is right and what is wrong, I do not judge, I do not promote hate or violence.

It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.


I do believe you just answered the question for me

My thanks


Cody




posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: nonspecific





It's quite obvious to me what the correct thing to do is and without the binding ties of religion I feel it is very easy to be a good person.


To be honest I agree with you. The problem I have the most is that many churches have fallen into only teaching what is Good and what is Bad. I for one feel a pastor has wasted my time if I go up to church and all I hear is the difference between a Good action and a Bad one. or how to quit sinning... these things are obvious as you have said...one doesn't need to be taught not to steal or murder they are obviously wrong.

If you agree with the idea that you know what is right and wrong instinctively do you also agree with the idea that you do not always do what you know is right?(I get you may try your best but do you fail sometimes?)

I would also have to ask if you believe there is truly and objective right and wrong then how do you rationalize that idea without some external standard of Good?


My personal opinion is that there is no Right and Wrong. It is all subjective.

To take the classic the bible says thou shalt not steal. That's a good lesson to learn because to take something that is not your's and is immoral. But what if a greedy man has 1000 apples and does not need them all and you take one to feed a starving child? From a religious viewpoint then you wil go to hell for eternity yet you did a "Bad" thing for a "Good" reason.

Without wishing to bring in even more debate I studied Wicca and spent many years with those that practice it.

They have a "witches creed" adapted from the words of crowley.

"Do as though will is the whole of the law, And it harms none.

The ends justify the means and we are all personally responsible for our own action.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: nonspecific
So where would you say I found these inner values, if not from my peers and not from religion?


In my opinion they we're learned from the outside.

TV, Observations, Conversations, Parents, ect ect.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: nonspecific
So where would you say I found these inner values, if not from my peers and not from religion?


In my opinion they we're learned from the outside.

TV, Observations, Conversations, Parents, ect ect.


As I said If I took my morals and values from those factors I would not be the person I am today, I can back this up by looking at those that were raised around me with the same external influences and I am nothing like them.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:46 PM
link   
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb



I don't cling to any teachings other than the Bible.


So you show partiality? You only consider what the bible has to say.


James 3
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.


James says the wisdom from above is impartial, meaning it is not biased. You are biased toward the bible meaning you can not have the wisdom from above.

True impartiality is to find value in all religious books, not just the bible. You are partial toward the bible.
edit on 3/15/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:48 PM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific

well they still came from a pool of external influences...

but we are individuals and we pick that which we can wrap our brains around most easily.

although at that/this point we are only acting and judging on previous learned experience.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 03:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: nonspecific

well they still came from a pool of external influences...

but we are individuals and we pick that which we can wrap our brains around most easily.

although at that/this point we are only acting and judging on previous learned experience.


I understand that may be your belief but as I have said my external sources would have created a very different set of values in me, one that I can see and experience with my own eyes.

Why do you disagree that it can not come from within and be simply that?



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:01 PM
link   
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


I gave you my reasons as to why I think a finite universe is more rational than an eternal universe...

That's because our brains are not equipped to deal with "infinite". Since I was a little kid and asked my mom - how old is the universe? - she said - it's eternal. No beginning, no end.

I said "I don't understand." She said "that's right. We can't understand it."

Rational thought has little to do with the esoteric.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:02 PM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific





In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.
I take it that the deserves part is ?? looks like it might just be a judgement call on your part .plese correct me if I am wrong in my assessment .



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:04 PM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific




My personal opinion is that there is no Right and Wrong. It is all subjective.


This is ethical nihilism. No way around it, and yet if this is your belief its seems to be in complete contradiction to your previous statement "I base my life on an internal understanding of right and wrong." To say one bases his life on an internal understanding of right and wrong while simultaneously believing there isn't such a thing as right and wrong is the same as saying:

I base my life on an internal understanding of nothing and nothing.




That's a good lesson to learn because to take something that is not your's and is immoral.


Wait a minute its immoral? You just said there was no such thing as Right and Wrong. No such thing as Moral or Immoral. What are you even trying to appeal to ? Your world view says we have no such thing.




They have a "witches creed" adapted from the words of crowley. "Do as though will is the whole of the law, And it harms none.


Well Wicca must not study philosophy very much. To say do as though will is the whole law and IT HARMS NONE. Is easily shown to be false. They should have left the capitalized part off because Hitler willed to drive a whole country to commit genocide..obviously harmed a few million jews..seems to contradict itself immediately .
edit on 15-3-2015 by ServantOfTheLamb because: typo

edit on 15-3-2015 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
True impartiality is to find value in all religious books, not just the bible. You are partial toward the bible.


more likely partial to the language


I tell you even French translated back into English sometimes is like baby talk. Other languages just do not have the words.

---

but other languages do get those new words... and they are introduce and spoken and spelled in English.


edit on 15-3-2015 by AinElohim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:13 PM
link   
a reply to: WizardVanWizard







I personally think 'rational' is not the best word to describe a worldview regarding mysticisms. Just because one person's 'rational' is not necessarily the next person's.


Well your world view doesn't just extend to the origin of the universe. It extends to the origin of life you seem to think its just luck. It also extends to what you believe about ethics, which you said we shouldn't be douche bags, why not?





There are some things man just cannot know, cannot comprehend.


With your degree of Skepticism, I think the better question is can man know anything?



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:16 PM
link   
a reply to: nonspecific


They have a "witches creed" adapted from the words of crowley.

"Do as though will is the whole of the law, And it harms none.

The ends justify the means and we are all personally responsible for our own action.



SCREEECH!!!!


No - that is NOT the witches' creed. First of all, you are referring to the Wiccan Rede, and second of all - what you typed above is NOT IT:


The Wiccan Rede /ˈriːd/ is a statement that provides the key moral system in the Neopagan religion of Wicca and certain other related Witchcraft-based faiths. A common form of the Rede is An it harm none, do what ye will.

The word "Rede" derives from Middle English, meaning "advice" or "counsel" and being closely related to the German Rat or Norwegian råd. "An" is an archaic Middle English conjunction, meaning "if." "Ye" is an archaic or dialectal form of "you" (nominative plural).

Other variants of the Rede include:

Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,

An it harm none do what ye will.



It means, "do whatever you like AS LONG AS IT HURTS NO ONE."

gah.

Just saying. gah. Please look further into the 'rede', and archaic English FOR YOURSELF, before jumping on the wagon of some idiotic, poorly educated dimwits who don't know what they're talking about.


edit on 3/15/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: nonspecific





In the real world I am known for my compassion, understanding and willingness to help anyone that needs and deseves my help.
I take it that the deserves part is ?? looks like it might just be a judgement call on your part .plese correct me if I am wrong in my assessment .


Of course it's a judgement call, I am one man with limited resources. As I said It's subjective and based on my interation and understanding of the individual in need.

To put this in perspective I once refused to let someone stay overnight at my house even though they were in need. The reason was that he was always putting himself in the same position due to an unwillingness to address his own issues, he could always do whatever he wanted knowing I would bail him out. I realised that unless I stopped he would never learn to stand on his own 2 feet and take positive actions to better his situation. Sometimes help can be a hinderance.

On the other end of the scale I once gave up my own flat and sold everything I had to bail a freind out who had fallen on hard times because it was not his fault and would have lost access to his kids. I slept on the floor for 8 months to help him out and do not regret it.

As I said earier, for me it's all about the individual circumstance and an inner feeling of what is right and what is wrong in terms of the situation.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: AinElohim

this means absolutely nothing to you?


It means absolutely nothing to your claims that Mosaic Law influenced modern Civic Law when it was derived from Roman Law.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:22 PM
link   

edit on 15/3/2015 by nonspecific because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Please look further into the 'rede', and archaic English FOR YOURSELF, before jumping on the wagon of some idiotic, poorly educated dimwits who don't know what they're talking about.


that's it! you hit the nail on the head...

going to learn another language besides modern English is like going to try to learn your goo goo's and gaa gaa's again.

very similar to archaic English.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: AinElohim
additionally there are 2 Rome's East and West.


Irrelevance. This has nothing to do with your erroneous claim.

Mosaic Law did not influence Roman Law.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:25 PM
link   
a reply to: AinElohim


going to learn another language besides modern English is like going to try to learn your goo goo's and gaa gaa's again.

very similar to archaic English.


I remember talking with you about knowing Spanish - and how 'nuanced' translation can be.

I speak not only Spanish, but ALSO, FLUENT archaic English. I wrote an entire novel in archaic (Shakespearian) English.

I think the King James Version of the Bible (1611) is part of the reason for the total misinterpretation and nonsense that is spread around today as "Christianity" by poorly educated Americans.



posted on Mar, 15 2015 @ 04:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AinElohim
additionally there are 2 Rome's East and West.


Irrelevance. This has nothing to do with your erroneous claim.

Mosaic Law did not influence Roman Law.


yep... and Roman Law didn't influence diddly squat.

Greek is the source







 
12
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join