Ontarians oppose the new graphic sex-ed program for schools

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: DeadFoot

We had both our children through a surrogate.

This is perhaps the worst of it.

It makes my stomach turn.

To purposely deny a child a mother is a terrible evil.

Bring on the evil step-mother. Because, of course, gender is more important then a pair of loving dads. NOT!

Sanctimonious dribble.

originally posted by: Seamrog

You deny your children a mother to satisfy your selfish desires.

NEWSFLASH!!!!!

There is not one unselfish reason for anyone to have a child.

That includes bible thumping male & female.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: DeadFoot

We had both our children through a surrogate.

This is perhaps the worst of it.

It makes my stomach turn.

To purposely deny a child a mother is a terrible evil.

Not all females make good mothers.

LOL, we could certainly have that chat over a pint or two...speaking for my kids, that is.

Speaking of sanctimonious dribbles, here's something related to the most strident advocates against gay lifestyles and perhaps the epitome of hatred:

California Attorney General Kamala Harris asked a state court on Wednesday for permission to reject a proposed ballot initiative stipulating that anyone who engages in gay sex be killed.

Harris issued a statement saying she was making the unusual request to stop the measure filed by a Southern California lawyer late last month. The initiative seeks to amend the California penal code to make sex with a person of the same gender an offence punishable by "bullets to the head or by any other convenient method." The distribution of gay "propaganda" would be punishable by a $1 million fine US or banishment from the state.

www.cbc.ca...

I don't know of a more disgusting statement currently made. For me, this makes the issue of sex education in schools all the more important so that young minds will not be tempted to the same extremes.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: DeadFoot

We had both our children through a surrogate.

This is perhaps the worst of it.

It makes my stomach turn.

To purposely deny a child a mother is a terrible evil.

Not all females make good mothers.

LOL, we could certainly have that chat over a pint or two...speaking for my kids, that is.

Are you sure about that? Because not all men make good fathers either and you would get an earful about that from me.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Are you sure about that? Because not all men make good fathers either and you would get an earful about that from me.

That certainly is my point. My son's best friend had two mom's, and between them they were raising a profoundly handicapped son, and one who was intellectually gifted. My daughter had good friends and neighbours, a gay couple (one Iranian, one American...guess why they moved to Canada), who were raising two lovely children that they had conceived using a surrogate. All of them were kind, loving people and just as good parents as the 'traditional' variety, and better than many. Just because you are a parent, and straight, has nothing to do with how good a parenting job you do.

And I am most proud of my kids that they found those people's sexual orientation to be entirely irrelevant. Not invisible...but incidental.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Love is something to cherish, hold on to tightly until the very end of life, regardless of who loves whom. We all need to accept the love others feel for their friends, family and life partners without sticking our own egos where they just do not belong.

I learned that lesson early in my life, thank you experience.

I don't care whether politics, religion, opinion or just plain nosiness is responsible for making judgements against another for their choices... we have no right other than in our own personal lives and the lives of your immediate family (other than as an act of love and caring).

While reading the recent posts, I was tempted to point to Dylan's song 'When the Deal Goes Down'.

Ponder on these words:

In the still of the night, in the world's ancient light
Where wisdom grows up in strife
My bewildering brain, toils in vain
Through the darkness on the pathways of life
Each invisible prayer is like a cloud in the air
Tomorrow keeps turning around
We live and we die, we know not why
But I'll be with you when the deal goes down

We eat and we drink, we feel and we think
Far down the street we stray
I laugh and I cry and I'm haunted by
Things I never meant nor wished to say
The midnight rain follows the train
We all wear the same thorny crown
Soul to soul, our shadows roll
And I'll be with you when the deal goes down

The moon gives light and shines by night
I scarcely feel the glow
We learn to live and then we forgive
O'er the road we're bound to go
More frailer than the flowers, these precious hours
That keep us so tightly bound
You come to my eyes like a vision from the skies
And I'll be with you when the deal goes down

I picked up a rose and it poked through my clothes
I followed the winding stream
I heard a deafening noise, I felt transient joys
I know they're not what they seem
In this earthly domain, full of disappointment and pain
You'll never see me frown
I owe my heart to you, and that's sayin' it true
And I'll be with you when the deal goes down

Copyright © 2006 by Special Rider Music
Read more: www.bobdylan.com...

Never underestimate the power of love. It's what kept my wife and I together for 50 years (45 as a married couple) and there is nothing short of death that will ever split us apart. The same goes for any and all relationships born out of love and no bystander has any right to intervene for any external reason.

By the same token, I think it is right and proper that our children are taught all about their inevitable invitation to love and be loved. Better prepared than surprised, imho.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: InTheLight
Are you sure about that? Because not all men make good fathers either and you would get an earful about that from me.

That certainly is my point. My son's best friend had two mom's, and between them they were raising a profoundly handicapped son, and one who was intellectually gifted. My daughter had good friends and neighbours, a gay couple (one Iranian, one American...guess why they moved to Canada), who were raising two lovely children that they had conceived using a surrogate. All of them were kind, loving people and just as good parents as the 'traditional' variety, and better than many. Just because you are a parent, and straight, has nothing to do with how good a parenting job you do.

And I am most proud of my kids that they found those people's sexual orientation to be entirely irrelevant. Not invisible...but incidental.

With immigration to Canada also comes blind religious beliefs that conflict with our tolerance of others' right to choose, as well as forward movement in sexual education.

To state that not all women make good mothers and not all men make good fathers does nothing to address that every child has a natural right to a mother and a father, and to the complimentary roles they each play in the rearing of a child. Men and women are NOT equal - they are distinctly different. They are BOTH necessary in the development of a healthy child.

To deny this, the mental and spiritual gymnastics required to ignore the natural law borders on madness - and I choose that word deliberately.

I am sorry that some of you picked a bad husband or a bad wife, but the fact remains that you created a child with that person, and that child should not have to deal with your garbage because you made a bad decision. A child still has a right to an intact mother / father relationship in spite of whatever inconveniences this may put on the spouses.

When two men, or two women come together and engineer a child into an existence from which it was not created - it is a grave evil that is visited on that child.

No paintbrush of good feelings and warm sentiments can cover the fact that deadfoot and the man he has sex with ripped a mother out of a child's life and replaced it with another male to make themselves happy. It is the antithesis of a moral act.

Finding love in one's life is a good thing, but it is not always and ordered thing. I love my sisters, but to ask the state and society to sanction an intimate relationship between us is repulsive.

I love my best friend - we have palled around together since boyhood, but there is no special protections or recognition of our relationship? Why is that?

Because these relationships are non-procreative. The Church, society and the state have a real interest in protecting children from the ravages of adult whims.

I look at the chaos deadfoot has visited on the innocents in his life and it makes my stomach turn.

originally posted by: Seamrog
To state that not all women make good mothers and not all men make good fathers does nothing to address that every child has a natural right to a mother and a father, and to the complimentary roles they each play in the rearing of a child. Men and women are NOT equal - they are distinctly different. They are BOTH necessary in the development of a healthy child.

To deny this, the mental and spiritual gymnastics required to ignore the natural law borders on madness - and I choose that word deliberately.

I am sorry that some of you picked a bad husband or a bad wife, but the fact remains that you created a child with that person, and that child should not have to deal with your garbage because you made a bad decision. A child still has a right to an intact mother / father relationship in spite of whatever inconveniences this may put on the spouses.

When two men, or two women come together and engineer a child into an existence from which it was not created - it is a grave evil that is visited on that child.

No paintbrush of good feelings and warm sentiments can cover the fact that deadfoot and the man he has sex with ripped a mother out of a child's life and replaced it with another male to make themselves happy. It is the antithesis of a moral act.

Finding love in one's life is a good thing, but it is not always and ordered thing. I love my sisters, but to ask the state and society to sanction an intimate relationship between us is repulsive.

I love my best friend - we have palled around together since boyhood, but there is no special protections or recognition of our relationship? Why is that?

Because these relationships are non-procreative. The Church, society and the state have a real interest in protecting children from the ravages of adult whims.

I look at the chaos deadfoot has visited on the innocents in his life and it makes my stomach turn.

I don't understand your rant. Did the mother sue for custody, or partial custody, or didn't bother? Did the mother sue and was denied by professionals that made that decision? If a child is motherless or fatherless there will be many factors to consider.

Children need love and security. What gender provides that makes no difference.

Maybe at one time it did matter, when roles were defined by society and law.

But, today's society is extremely diverse, as are gender roles.

At nearly 70 years of age ---- I can tell you from real life experience ---- the diversity of today is far superior to the the "locked in" gender roles of the past

People who live in their little protective bubbles ----- need to make sure they find ways to see the diversity of life outside that bubble. They do their kids a great disservice by not allowing them to experience the future of their own world. The real world and society the kid will be a part of.

I remember my mom raised us to accept everyone. To not be prejudice. Then one day I heard her talking to someone about black people. I was shocked. I asked her about it. She told me she was raised to be prejudice, but knew it would be wrong and not fit the world us kids would be a part of.

Wise woman.

----------------------

This same wise thinking applies to kids of today ----- learning about sexual/orientation diversity. It is their world.

originally posted by: Seamrog

No paintbrush of good feelings and warm sentiments can cover the fact that deadfoot and the man he has sex with ripped a mother out of a child's life and replaced it with another male to make themselves happy. It is the antithesis of a moral act.

This also applies to a hetero couple choosing IVF or a surrogate, right?

I assume you also prefer a child remain in an orphanage rather then be adopted by a same sex couple.

originally posted by: Seamrog
The Church, society and the state have a real interest in protecting children from the ravages of adult whims.

I look at the chaos deadfoot has visited on the innocents in his life and it makes my stomach turn.

Separation of Church snd State.

Religious belief is a choice ----- sexual orientation is not.

I expect Deadfoots children will have far more respect for him when they grow up ----- then your son will have for you.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: InTheLight
Are you sure about that? Because not all men make good fathers either and you would get an earful about that from me.

That certainly is my point. My son's best friend had two mom's, and between them they were raising a profoundly handicapped son, and one who was intellectually gifted. My daughter had good friends and neighbours, a gay couple (one Iranian, one American...guess why they moved to Canada), who were raising two lovely children that they had conceived using a surrogate. All of them were kind, loving people and just as good parents as the 'traditional' variety, and better than many. Just because you are a parent, and straight, has nothing to do with how good a parenting job you do.

And I am most proud of my kids that they found those people's sexual orientation to be entirely irrelevant. Not invisible...but incidental.

With immigration to Canada also comes blind religious beliefs that conflict with our tolerance of others' right to choose, as well as forward movement in sexual education.

But are all families equally equipped to have that talk? This is the main concern for Manan Gupta, a father of two living in Brampton, Ont., who immigrated from India 11 years ago. “Coming from South Asia, I know talking about sexual topics is a big taboo,” he says. “Students don’t leave their questions in the school. Those kids might come home and try to find information on the Internet or ask their parents and those parents won’t want to listen to those questions. Where does that student go?”

www.theglobeandmail.com...

originally posted by: Annee

Children need love and security. What gender provides that makes no difference.

You are dead wrong here.

I'm not going to waste my time with you on sources I know you will not read, but know this is a profoundly ignorant statement.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Seamrog

No paintbrush of good feelings and warm sentiments can cover the fact that deadfoot and the man he has sex with ripped a mother out of a child's life and replaced it with another male to make themselves happy. It is the antithesis of a moral act.

This also applies to a hetero couple choosing IVF or a surrogate, right?

Yes.

Not only do IVF techniques separate the creative act from the creation, they destroy human life - an intrinsically evil act.

Human embryos are created in a petri dish and then 'selected' for cryopreservation based on their appearance to a technician. Those not frozen get flushed, or sent to a research lab.

When a woman is sufficiently drugged with hormones, a number of embryos are thawed - usually more than needed for an implantation cycle because some don't make it through the thawing. The healthiest 'looking' are then implanted - the rest are flushed or sent for research.

Inevitably, there are 'leftover' embryos. What do you imagine happens to those?

The entire process is steeped in the murder of defenseless human lives.


Surrogacy is a different matter. A woman is used as a tool to grow a baby that is then ripped from her and 'given' to men like deadfoot.

Equally immoral.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Seamrog
The Church, society and the state have a real interest in protecting children from the ravages of adult whims.

I look at the chaos deadfoot has visited on the innocents in his life and it makes my stomach turn.

Separation of Church snd State.

Religious belief is a choice ----- sexual orientation is not.

The origins of our laws is totally lost on you so I'll leave that aside.

Sexual attractions not always voluntary, but acting on them is.

Heterosexual men turn to homosexual acts in prison, and then the back to heterosexual acts when they get out.

If that is not a 'choice,' then I don't know what is.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Seamrog
The Church, society and the state have a real interest in protecting children from the ravages of adult whims.

I look at the chaos deadfoot has visited on the innocents in his life and it makes my stomach turn.

Separation of Church snd State.

Religious belief is a choice ----- sexual orientation is not.

The origins of our laws is totally lost on you so I'll leave that aside.

Sexual attractions not always voluntary, but acting on them is.

Heterosexual men turn to homosexual acts in prison, and then the back to heterosexual acts when they get out.

If that is not a 'choice,' then I don't know what is.

A same sex act does not make someone homosexual.

They don't switch back and forth.

Sexual orientation is a complexity of the physical body, brain, etc.

originally posted by: Annee

They don't switch back and forth.

Sexual orientation is a complexity of the physical body, brain, etc.

Sorry, but 'switching back and forth' is common.

Sexual orientation depends on your chromosones and how those cromosones affected the development of your body....

Two X's and you're oriented toward men.

Replace an X with a Y and you're oriented towards women.

If you look down between your legs, you will see the clear point I am making.

You cannot be ordered any different unless you have a profound birth defect.


A man who experiences attraction to another man is not oriented towards him. In spite of his feelings, and what he may choose to do with those feelings, he is, and was, created as a male, oriented towards a female.

a reply to: Seamrog

Hah.

Your past several post draws memories of my father an I.

Make no mistake, when your son hits the age of 13-15, he will likely begin to consider you one of the dumbest people he has ever met. That's not to say that you are actually dumb, but that your son is likely to think so, because he will have lived in a world where he has learned more than your stubborn, disingenuous, self-praising mind allows you to.

Funny you attack my family/relationship because it's less a mother; your son doesn't even have a real father.