Ontarians oppose the new graphic sex-ed program for schools

originally posted by: Seamrog

I'm sure your dad loves you very much. Just like I love my own children.

If my father was part of this conversation, you would be a good asset to view the perspective of his prior ignorances. He would view your position with more respect than I could afford you, but he would in the end assure you that you are DEAD WRONG, and you will make MANY MISTAKES that you don't have to in the process of learning that.

He was there when I went through highschool, went through my relationship struggles, got married, had children.

He was also there when my sister relapsed, and when my other sister fled the country for legal reasons.

Guess what? At one point, I was the "disappointment" because of my "life choice", and his language would match what you say today.

But today, he knows that morality has nothing to do with my sexual orientation, or "life choices". He admitted to me that he assumed it was a choice because at one point in his addolescence, he believed he might be gay and he suppressed it, and acknowledged that it is in no way similar to how I live my life. I love my husband. Your sense of reality is toxic if you take a second to look at my life and think otherwise. This is not a silly little fetish like you take the Bible to paint it as; it's 100% not, and that is factual whether or not you have the capacity to realize that.

What you have in common most with my father, is that you and him had a lot of growing up to do when your children were young. There is a lot that you don't know, and this entire subject is one of them.

It's over your head.

a reply to: DeadFoot

I'm not discussing this from an emotional standpoint - you are.

I have no doubt that your struggles have been, and remain tremendous. It oozed out from your first post.

I approach this, and other difficult situations in my life from the perspective of my faith - your faith, and the faith of your father.

I believe without question that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I believe he was crucified, died, buried and rose three days later destroying death.

I believe that he revealed the Father to us, and I believe that he meant what he said, and did.

With that in mind, you need to come down from your high horse - my temptations are no less than yours are. While mine may be ordered towards creation, they are no less tempting, and no less sinful if I act on them.

Your faith tells you that you were created a man, not a homosexual.

Your faith also tells you that in no way are you 'married' to the man you wish to call your husband. It is an impossibility - just like it was an impossibility for Henry VIII to remarry.

I have my cross to carry and you have yours.

God willing we both have the courage and the strength to do so.

You will be in my prayers.

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: DeadFoot

Your faith tells you that you were created a man, not a homosexual.

Once it was believed seizures were being possessed by the Devil.

Slave owners justified owning those of dark skin and treating them badly because they were marked by God --- Mark of Ham.

Continuing with ignorance when knowledge proves "belief" is wrong ---- is unacceptable.

a reply to: Annee

Altering the clear teachings of Jesus Christ to suit a political, or a self-satisfying agenda is unacceptable.

a reply to: Seamrog

It's not an emotional standpoint it's an intellectual one.

I am in no way attracted to women, so I do not get into relationships with them; if I did, In would be miserable. I do not want to be miserable, my father does not want me to be miserable, so I chose to not be miserable by faking love for a woman, and my father approves of that because he wants to see me happy rather than force his personal ideologies down my throat.

At no point in my life could I have been considered sexually frivolous, so sexual immorality is not a tag I will wear with any semblance of validity, because it is false; it has nothing to do with my emotional standpoint, it's my analytic nature and ability to recognize reality.

To call my marriage "not a marriage" is also simply false. I can marry whomever I please, and no god has any say in that. It is a government structure and a practice that predates Christianity altogether. My husband is literally my husband -- another fact that will not be talked away, because you can't change facts with words.

There are marriages out there where people don't even have children. My marriage does, so even by biblical definition my marriage is, at worst, just as valid as a marriage between two heterosexuals who are not married for the purpose of having children. Now, tell me, would you say such things to those couples? These are the moments when it rings clear that you have so much learning to do on this topic, and that you need to drop your dogmatic bias and search for sensibility.

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: Annee

Altering the clear teachings of Jesus Christ to suit a political, or a self-satisfying agenda is unacceptable.

So seizures should still be treated with exorcisms is what you're saying?

Senseless.

a reply to: DeadFoot

The fact that you have abandoned your faith does not - and can not - change the tenants of the faith.

It is tragic that that does not fit your life choices - you know that faith is written on your heart, or you would not be here arguing about it now - it is more tragic that you choose to indulge your passions rather than honor your faith.

I note that you were previously married to a woman, and fathered children with her. I note it heavily, and wonder what havoc you have heaped into their own lives to suit your passions - because you 'do not want to be miserable.'

I wonder what God had planned for your life. He created you - he knew you would struggle with SSA - I wonder what your life would have been if you lived for him, instead of yourself. Perhaps you were called to be single - who can know when you let your passions rule your life? By your words, happiness is your goal, but you are here, sounding like a profoundly unhappy person.

You do not get to decide the morality of your actions...those parameters were established by your Creator. I know you are struggling with this still because you have raised the issue more than once. You claim to own your decisions, but you are here defending them to a person you have never met.

Setting aside the hermeneutical understanding of marriage, you cannot ignore its ontological understanding. Two men can never join in union. The essence of your physiology tells you otherwise...clearly.

To declare otherwise to suit your whims is well....senseless.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

So seizures should still be treated with exorcisms is what you're saying?

Terrible attempt at a straw man.

I'll give you a mulligan if you want...you can take that one back and have a 'do-over.'

There is a reason they call it BLIND faith.

When science and knowledge is shoved aside to cling to a God belief ----- that is ignorant blindness.

There are many Christians in support of equality and understanding of homosexuality because they acknowledge and accept new information ----- that was misunderstood in ancient times.

Opt your child out of the class. They will be sent to the library to write a short paper on grizzly bears or on the differences between coniferous and deciduous trees while the other students are in class. If you're concerned that other children's values and knowledge might rub off on your kid, send them to private school or home school.

The only religion I want at school is as a unit for Humanities/Social Studies to introduce students to the religions their fellow classmates practice so there are no misunderstandings and they can just be friends.

a reply to: Annee

I hope you and deadfoot will read this - the author expresses a beautiful Truth far better than I could hope to:

"The male is created with a potentiality for biological or spiritual fatherhood, the woman with a potentiality for biological or spiritual motherhood. Certain soft chords in her nature resonate more powerfully in his nature; certain pale hues in his nature glow more luminously in hers. Paradoxically, we are not less because of this incompleteness. We are more. There is more melody, more color, more laughter in the world because there are two kinds of us.

A husband and wife uniting in love in the hope of having children is a more splendid thing than meiosis or parthogenesis or budding, for it makes possible a kind of love that would otherwise not exist: A life which gives rise to new life.

We do not all need to marry and enjoy sexual love, but we do all need to recognize that the pattern of sexual love is shaped by the polarity of the sexes and designed for that life-giving partnership. A man and a woman are necessary not only to conceive the child but to bring him to birth, because the woman incubates him and the man protects both of them. A man and a woman are necessary not only to bring him to birth but to raise him, because he needs a mom and a dad. The procreative vocation of the two spouses continues even after they have passed the age of childbearing and their children are grown, for then they are needed as grandparents.

Same-sex intercourse misses the point of all this. Not only is it intrinsically non-procreative, incapable of forming new life, but for all the talk of activists about fulfilling relationships, it is also intrinsically non-unitive. Two men, or two women, cannot balance each other in the utterly distinctive way that a woman and a man do."


J. Budziszewski, Ph.D

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: DeadFoot

The fact that you have abandoned your faith does not - and can not - change the tenants of the faith.

It is tragic that that does not fit your life choices - you know that faith is written on your heart, or you would not be here arguing about it now - it is more tragic that you choose to indulge your passions rather than honor your faith.

I "abandonned my faith" long before I would consider myself "sexually aware". I went to a catholic school, and it was easy for me to give up on "faith" in realisation of its utterly incompatibility with the painfully simple grade 5 science curriculum.

I note that you were previously married to a woman, and fathered children with her. I note it heavily, and wonder what havoc you have heaped into their own lives to suit your passions - because you 'do not want to be miserable.'

First of all, I was never married to a woman and never insinuated such a thing. We had both our children through a surrogate.

I wonder what God had planned for your life. He created you - he knew you would struggle with SSA - I wonder what your life would have been if you lived for him, instead of yourself. Perhaps you were called to be single - who can know when you let your passions rule your life? By your words, happiness is your goal, but you are here, sounding like a profoundly unhappy person.

Spare me your shame game, sir. I am not the one online purporting praise for myself about the potential emotional abuse of my son, and doing so stubbornly and without supporting facts. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself, not me. I'm doing fine.

a reply to: Seamrog

Why would I read this nonsense Christian propaganda piece?

J. Budziszewski, Ph.D is a Christian author, who also wrote "How to Stay Christian in College".

--------------------------------------------

A loving relationship misses the point?

Does that also apply to child barren hetero couples?

a reply to: DeadFoot

Ahhhh, faith. Us heathens, born of the devil, all we need to do is find God --- HA!

I was some form of Christian - pseudo Christian for 65 years. Can't say I didn't give it a shot.

a reply to: Annee

Come on, now. No true scotsman squanders their faith.

What was sourced as your appeal to faith? Math? Science? History?

Blasphemy; it's over their heads, too.

You can only find knowledge in being a true scotsman.

originally posted by: DeadFoot

We had both our children through a surrogate.

This is perhaps the worst of it.

It makes my stomach turn.

To purposely deny a child a mother is a terrible evil.

a reply to: Seamrog

Well both of my "motherless" children would be glad to tell you where to shove your baseless opinion. The only time they have a problem with it is when they encounter people like YOU. You do realize that? People with your mindset are 100% of the problem.

What you're saying is nothing new, and really very consistently pointless as it comes every... single... time.

Guess we should've bought cats, though, since we aren't shoving YOUR opinions down THEIR throats.

Here's the best part, you're in a thread saying that people should be free to raise their children as they wish, and then you criticize anyone who doesn't raise them the way you raise your son: by purporting bronze-aged ideologies and offering no stream of rational thought for any option to the contrary.

I can honestly say that I am 100% sure that my children will do better than those with your mindset, because they have better parents. My daughter is only 9 and I have already learned so much from her, and a lot of things that totally changed my opinions on things that I really thought I had figured out. This is something that people of your mindset will never be able to achieve, because this group-think is full to the brim with talkers that nobody cares to hear because they really have nothing intelligent to say. To me that seems to be, quite frankly, a really rather pathetic thing to be able to say about any adult.

And again, last page you were proud of brainwashing your son with homophobic religious dogma, now you call me evil for simply raising my child with an open mind and allowing her to make her own decisions. Oh, and neither of the parents have a vagina, so it's a supreme evil with no due forgiveness from the holy people. Were you discretely asking my for a saw to get that log out of your eye?

I do believe I asked you to spare me your (at this point, rather adolescent) shame game. You still don't know anything about this topic, and certainly NOTHING about my children. To think that the moral highground can be claimed by simply stating an opinion based on groundless rhetoric is really going to be nothing more than an exclamation of a personal lack of maturity.

My house was not built on the sand, thank you very much, Mr. Righteous.

a reply to: DeadFoot


A child comes from a man and a woman.

You deny your children a mother to satisfy your selfish desires.

Children need a mother and a father, and you robbed 'yours' of that so you could pretend to have a family.

From my brief interactions with you, it is evident that your life is ordered around pleasing yourself, and making everyone around you deal with the consequences.

The worst is imposing this crap on children.

Here is a telling letter from one such child to Justice Kennedy - you should read it and weep.

Letter to Justice Kennedy from a Child with 'two moms'

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: DeadFoot

A child comes from a man and a woman.
You deny your children a mother to satisfy your selfish desires.
Children need a mother and a father, and you robbed 'yours' of that so you could pretend to have a family.
From my brief interactions with you, it is evident that your life is ordered around pleasing yourself, and making everyone around you deal with the consequences.
The worst is imposing this crap on children.
Here is a telling letter from one such child to Justice Kennedy - you should read it and weep.
Letter to Justice Kennedy from a Child with 'two moms'

Oh, well then. If I can't trust a conservative think tank associated with the Catholic Church on the subject of homosexuality, then who can I trust? Mind you, this kid has an opinion, too.

Zach Wahls Speaks About Family Zach Wahls, a 19-year-old University of Iowa student spoke about the strength of his family during a public forum on House Joint Resolution 6 in the Iowa House of Representatives. Wahls has two mothers, and came to oppose House Joint Resolution 6 which would end civil unions in Iowa.

Which all goes to say that you can trot out all kinds of religious nonsense to support whatever you want, but that doesn't make it real. Maybe they should start with equality for women, and slowly creep their way into the 18th century.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: DeadFoot

We had both our children through a surrogate.

This is perhaps the worst of it.

It makes my stomach turn.

To purposely deny a child a mother is a terrible evil.

Not all females make good mothers.