Timeline for a date with a firing squad . Time running out for Bali 9 pair .

originally posted by: hellobruce

Not proven at all, simply doing what their lawyer told them to do, suck up to people, to try and get a reduced sentence.

I tend to listen more to the experts who have unequivocally stated that these two are honestly rehabilitated and willing to continue helping others in prison on a life sentence - rather than some faceless internet coward who calls for peoples executions to satisfy their own bloodlust.

These two were mules, just like the other 7. They have made extreme efforts at rehabilitation and have even got the governor of the prisons support for their clemency due to the efforts and programs they have started in jail to help other.

But I guess you can never please those who just call for blood for the sake of it.

originally posted by: Kryties
If you had paid attention you would know that these two have made extreme efforts to rehabilitate.

Not really, they just did what their lawyer told them to do.

I cant believe the callousness and viciousness of some people, particularly those that think executing people solves problems.

It does solve problems, these 2 scumbags will not be smuggling any more drugs.

But apparently some people don't care about trivial issues like that.

With all the problems in the world the death of 2 Australian scumbag drug dealers is just a trivial issue.

They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew Indonesia had the death penalty for drug dealers, they got caught dealing drugs in Indonesia, now they and their supporters whine about it!

originally posted by: hellobruce

It does solve problems, these 2 scumbags will not be smuggling any more drugs.

And another 10 will take their place. Good plan Einstein.

With all the problems in the world the death of 2 Australian scumbag drug dealers is just a trivial issue.

They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew Indonesia had the death penalty for drug dealers, they got caught dealing drugs in Indonesia, now they and their supporters whine about it!

Whining? Nope. Standing up for what is right in the face of bloodlust and backwards mentality? Yes.

originally posted by: Kryties
Standing up for what is right

What is right is they smuggled drugs in a country where the penalty for that is death - they knew that, but smuggled drugs, got caught so have to face that penalty.

But they refuse to accept any personal responsibility for their actions.

originally posted by: hellobruce

What is right is they smuggled drugs in a country where the penalty for that is death - they knew that, but smuggled drugs, got caught so have to face that penalty.

They were smuggling them OUT of the country after the AFP tipped off the Indo's to the plot - in defiance of the law that states Australians cannot be extradited to, or deliberately allowed to be put on death row in other countries.

But they refuse to accept any personal responsibility for their actions.

WHAT?? Now you really ARE talking out your rectum - the two of them have done nothing BUT apologise, repent and try to make amends. Do your damn research before making such ridiculous claims in future.

Bloody disgusting.

a reply to: Kryties

Bloody disgusting.

No just someone who has no idea of the facts , lets use the word ignorant .

a reply to: Kryties

I understand that Indonesia are the biggest hypocrits out there, I don't typically condone capital punishment but I guess my apathy towards drug dealers and them knowing the risks all just adds up to a big ol meh from me.

...And how many lives are destroyed each day by drugs? Why should anybody care about those two scumbags? And that boycott mentioned in OP is beyond idiotic. Really folks?...

originally posted by: hellobruce
So you think a "mistake" is traveling to Indonesia, smuggling drugs back to Australia, then flying back to Indonesia to do it again?

This sums it up.

www.smh.com.au... l

The head of Kerobokan Prison has attested that both Chan and Sukumaran have made exemplary efforts to rehabilitate themselves.

A simple Google search of the names of these two will result in a mountain of material that states these men do not deserve death - not only from Australians and our leaders but also from people like the head of the prison they are incarcerated in. I'm sure he's heard "I'm sorry" from everyone who comes in - so therefore he must be pretty convinced that they don't deserve death.

originally posted by: Kryties
after the AFP tipped off the Indo's to the plot - in defiance of the law

More crap from you

However, the Commonwealth Government maintained that the treaty only applies after a suspect is charged.[27] The application was dismissed by the Federal Court in January 2006.

and

Commenting on the sentences at the time, AFP Commissioner Keelty stated:[42] "I stand by the police and what they've done … The Federal Court actually made a decision saying not only had they acted lawfully but they acted in accordance with government policy." — AFP Commissioner Mick Keelty, quoted in The Sydney Morning Herald, 15 February 2006.

So it was not in defiance of any law....

the two of them have done nothing BUT apologise, repent and try to make amends.

You really are showing your ignorance about this case....

Throughout his trial, Chan remained silent.[34] During his final plea, reading from a two-page statement, Chan commented:[34][35] "I didn't say anything in court because if I did, I'd be lying. The truth is, I know nothing. A lot of lies have been said against me, but the true reality is I'm not what people put me out to be. I've never threatened anybody in my life. The outcome I wish, of course, and my family is that you find that you would release me, for I had nothing to participate in this.

However, after he was convicted he said

In his final appeal, Chan was reported as stating:[13] "I apologise to the Indonesian people, I also apologise to my family and I realise that my actions have brought shame and suffering to my whole family.

That is when he finally admitted he had lied before, and started sucking up to people, as advised by his lawyer.

Do your damn research before making such ridiculous claims in future.

It is obvious you have done no research, and know nothing about these convicted drug dealers.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Kryties

I understand that Indonesia are the biggest hypocrits out there, I don't typically condone capital punishment but I guess my apathy towards drug dealers and them knowing the risks all just adds up to a big ol meh from me.

I don't treat executions with a "meh".

I tend to be more human than that.

originally posted by: Kaishakunin
...And how many lives are destroyed each day by drugs?

Apparently they do not count, only the lives of drug dealers matter!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Kryties
after the AFP tipped off the Indo's to the plot - in defiance of the law

More crap from you

Wow, you really don't have a clue do you?

From: www.smh.com.au...

Portrayal of Chan and Sukumaran as key figures may have damaged chances of reprieve

It appears inevitable that the so-called "godfather" and "enforcer" of the Bali nine drugs syndicate will be executed by an Indonesian firing squad, probably within days.

But the portrayal of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran as the key figures in a heroin smuggling syndicate in April 2005 is misleading and may have damaged their chances of a presidential reprieve.

Chan and Sukumaran were organisers of the mules recruited to strap kilograms of heroin to their bodies in Bali and take tourist flights to Sydney.

The suppliers, main organisers and financiers of the operation have never been identified, despite claims by Australian Federal Police in the days after the arrest of nine young Australians in Bali that the so-called "Mr Bigs" of an Asian-based smuggling syndicate would soon be brought to justice.

The story of efforts to uncover the top people behind the attempted importation is one of apparent bungling and suspected cover-ups by Indonesian authorities, who were given precise details about the operation by the AFP.

Journalists, including this reporter, dubbed Chan the syndicate "godfather" after a senior Indonesian police officer used the term to describe him, and several of the Bali nine mules told police they were worried about their safety and that of their families in the days after their arrests.

Musclebound Sukumaran was dubbed the "enforcer" because he was a co-organiser with Chan of the mules.

"They [the mules] said they were following Chan's instructions and if they didn't follow the precise instructions their families would be killed ... they don't want to see Chan," Bambang Sugiarto, then head of Bali's drug squad, said at the time.

Chan and Sukumaran were not on the bottom rung in the syndicate, didn't plead guilty or express remorse and appeared in the days after their arrests to be unrepentant and brash. But describing Chan as the "godfather" – a term that usually refers to the head of a crime organisation – and Sukumaran as "enforcer" inflated their roles.

Chan was 22 and living with his parents at the time of his arrest.

As the AFP's role in tipping off the Indonesians began to emerge in April 2005, Indonesian authorities named the Myanmar-based drug syndicate Crescent Moon as the supplier of the heroin. The AFP declared the syndicate leaders' days were numbered.

"For us, it's about disrupting the organised crime network so these things don't occur again. The only way to do that is to try to get the source of the narcotics, and that's obviously why we've supplied information to Indonesia," said Mike Phelan, then the AFP's international network manager.

Bruce Hill, head of a six-member team of AFP agents in Bali, was confident of imminent arrests, announcing to journalists "some very relevant avenues of inquiry" in relation to a syndicate that he said had smuggled large amounts of heroin to Western countries.

"In the future there may be more arrests in Indonesia and other Asian countries," said Mr Hill, adding they would include the so-called Mr Bigs.

Maybe the AFP overestimated the help it would receive from notoriously corrupt Asian law enforcement agencies. Even with specific information from the AFP, Indonesian police inexplicably failed to monitor a Thai prostitute called Cherry Likit Bannakorn delivering two suitcases of heroin to Chan in Bali, claiming he had twice given them the slip in holiday crowds.

Ms Cherry flew out of Bali the day after the arrests and was detained but then released as she was passing through an immigration post on the Malaysian-Thai border. Thai police claimed they didn't have the correct paperwork to extradite her to Indonesia.

Some 10 years later, an Interpol notice still declares Ms Cherry a fugitive from justice but there seems to have been little effort in Thailand to find her.

On April 27, 2005, Indonesian police announced they had shot dead Man Singh Ghale, a Nepalese-born man with a long history of drug trafficking in Indonesia, whom they linked to the Bali nine operation.

Indonesian undercover drugs agents in Jakarta initially claimed they shot him as he tried to escape, but it emerged later his hands were cuffed behind his back at the time.

Months later, AFP chief Mick Keelty admitted that Man Singh Ghale was not the Mr Big in the Bali nine operation.

It is obvious you have done no research, and know nothing about these convicted drug dealers.

No, what is obvious is that you are ignoring mountains of research and cherry-picking small bits that suit your fantasy that these two deserve to be executed.

Methinks it's more of a backwards mentality and desire to see blood on your part than ignorance of the issue due to the blanket media coverage at the moment.

From: edition.cnn.com...

Why executions won't win Indonesia's drug war

Indonesia has announced that death row inmates and ringleaders of the Bali Nine drug smuggling ring, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, will be transferred from Kerokoban prison. It's the first step in their last walk to the firing squad.

The two -- who were convicted of a failed attempt to smuggle heroin to Australia in 2005 -- are now more than likely to be taken out to a field on Nusakambangan, a prison island off central Java, and shot dead.

Besides the horror of the death penalty -- something Australia only dispensed of in 1967 -- there is so much unnecessary tragedy in this case.

Some of it rests on the shoulders of the Australian Federal Police (AFP), who tipped off the Indonesian police after receiving information from a worried father of one of the duo's mules.

Some rests on the own shoulders of the men, who made one terrible, foolish mistake while young.

However, a lot of it also rests with Indonesia and its President Joko Widodo, whose cruel lack of compromise and desire to clear out the prisons has seen him categorically turn down any chance of clemency -- even though this potentially flouts Indonesian law.

'No clemency'

Widodo has said he will deny clemency for all drug offenders. Indonesian legal teams are now scrambling a submission to the administrative court, arguing that the president can't deny clemency for all drug cases, but must consider each case individually.

Widodo is also following the lead of the Indonesian public, which in the main believes in the death penalty. Of course, this is in stark contrast to the work Indonesia does to get its own citizens off death row around the world.

The president's hard-line stance isn't just about trying to win some breathing space with an electorate, which in the vast majority is disappointed with his presidency.

He may be also trying to distract them from ongoing corruption scandals, the persistence of cronyism and his inability to break free from the shackles of his political benefactor Megawati Sukarnoputri.

Most significantly though, Widodo has announced a war on drugs, which he sees as devastating the nation.

Drug emergency?

The drug "crisis" is described by Widodo as a "national emergency." According to the president, 4.5 million Indonesians need to be rehabilitated from illicit or illegal drug use, and 40 to 50 young people die from drugs a day. This data has shown to be based on questionable statistics.

Even so, it tempers much of Widodo's thinking on the need for rehabilitation.

And here's where another perspective on rehabilitation comes in. In Chan and Sukumaran, dubbed the pastor and the painter respectively, the president not only has clear examples of rehabilitation, but effective tools for combating the scourge of drug smuggling in his own country and rehabilitating those of his citizens most in need.

This is in part due to the characteristics and qualities of the Indonesian prison system.

Rehabilitation

Let's just say that the two were, with the rest of the Bali Nine, allowed to board flights for Australia and nabbed by the Australian Federal Police instead of Indonesia's National Police.

Serving up to 10 years in an Australian prison, would they have been reformed? With a recidivism rate of over 50% and the sterile security conditions that commonly lead to psychological distress and not change, probably not.

That might lead one to assume that something about their time in Kerobokan prison contributed to their reformation, something they would more than likely not have experienced here in Australia.

What can be learned from this hypothesis? Chan and Sukumaran's experiences show genuine clear signs of rehabilitation. So how could this rehabilitation occur in Kerobokan prison, which is claimed to be a "hell hole"?

A model of reform?

By default and not by design, prisons like Kerobokan share many positive aspects that are often overlooked by contemporary prison reformists. As Indonesian corrections don't have the resources to care or provide for inmates, the inmates take it upon themselves to fund and run their own rehabilitation programs.

There is also more buy in from NGOs who also support the inmate programs and the amazing support structures that are created by inmates in prisons in developing countries like Indonesia and the Philippines.

These include their own businesses to support themselves and family, which keep them occupied and sometimes away from criminal pursuits. In the end, in some cases, the prison community becomes a natural environment for rehabilitation.

A study on recidivism in Indonesia may paint a more accurate picture as precise figures are hard to come by. Of course, corruption, criminality and drug running remain very real issues.

Chan and Sukumaran demonstrate a clear sense of remorse and with it the chance of redemption. If rehabilitated returning fighters can be used to help dissuade and can be used to help other young men from making the same mistake, why can't convicted and remorseful drug smugglers do the same?

'No silver bullet solution'

Beyond how unpalatable the notion may be to many, this is yet another reason why it is a real shame the two will be executed -- here are clear examples of successful rehabilitation that should be held high with pride by the Indonesian government, not shot down in history.

Instead, their execution could potentially dampen other inmates' enthusiasm to reform or change in Indonesia. In all prisons, hope is critical for moral and rehabilitation, especially in under-resourced prisons where conditions are harsh.

In this case, as with many more, the death penalty is no silver bullet solution, and in fact hits terribly wide of the mark. There is no conclusive evidence that the death penalty has any real deterrence value.

These two men, who fully admit they made an awful error judgement in while their early 20s, offer a glimpse on how Widodo's war on drugs can be won without having to lose more lives -- without having to fire a single shot.

a reply to: Kryties

Hang in there with your opinions , this is pretty much what i expected although i am a little surprised there have only been a few pro execution posters . I wonder how much the quote below has to do with the decision .

It is also handicapped by residual hypocrisy over the response to the execution of the Indonesians who organised the 2002 Bali bombings.

John Howard conceded as much but “couldn’t find it in my heart to publicly ask the Indonesian Government to spare the lives of the people who murdered 88 Australians”.

Perhaps our desire for revenge on those involved in the Bali bombing has in some way sentenced these men to death .

originally posted by: hutch622
Perhaps our desire for revenge on those involved in the Bali bombing has in some way sentenced these men to death .

No, their drug dealing in Indonesia is what sentenced them to death....

originally posted by: hellobruce

No, their drug dealing in drug muleing OUT of Indonesia is what sentenced them to death....

Corrected it for you.

You can't even get the basic details correct.

originally posted by: Kryties
You can't even seem to get the basic details correct.

Funny how you refuse to accept the reality that they were dealing in drugs, they knew the penalty for that was death but now they and their supporters are upset that they got caught drug dealing and will be put down shortly.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Kryties
You can't even seem to get the basic details correct.

Funny how you refuse to accept the reality that they were dealing in drugs, they knew the penalty for that was death but now they and their supporters are upset that they got caught drug dealing and will be put down shortly.

Funny how you seem to think that people, particularly young people, can't make mistakes and that they should be executed for something that people get 10 years for here in Australia.

Your description of the executions as them being "put down" is disgusting by the way, and it proves my point about you and your mentality entirely. Go back to the Dark Ages mate, they seem to fit your mentality moreso than modern times.

a reply to: hellobruce

put down

Really .