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originally posted by: Kryties
They have PROVEN, beyond a shadow of a doubt and to the satisfaction of many law figures in both Indonesia and Australia that they have rehabilitated and are making supreme efforts to continue to help themselves and others.
originally posted by: hellobruce
No they have not, if you looked when they started sucking up it was after they were convicted and their appeal failed, so their new lawyer told them their only chance for clemency was to start sucking up to everyone.
What is sickening is the support some give to unrepentant drug dealers.
originally posted by: Kryties
What is sickening is your continued false assertions that the two men are "unrepentant".
September 2006 had been sentenced to death three times. From that time he changed lawyers, and slowly turned his life around, facing up to his wrongdoing and reforming himself.
based on falsehoods and outright lies.
originally posted by: hellobruce
You are very wrong again - have a look at the petition some bleeding hearts started, in it it states
September 2006 had been sentenced to death three times. From that time he changed lawyers, and slowly turned his life around, facing up to his wrongdoing and reforming himself.
So as you can see it was only when their new lawyer told them sucking up was their only chance of clemency, before that date they did nothing.
The only falsehoods and lies are coming from you.
originally posted by: Kryties
How do you know this?
And yet there you are literally MAKING STUFF UP to suit your argument.
originally posted by: Kryties
Which totally goes against the rule of Indonesian law by allowing politics to enter discussions of law.
Did YOU consider the consequences of your actions when you were young and stupid? If you answer YES then I will be calling bull#.
originally posted by: hellobruce
Well, I read the petition, something you obviously did not do...
originally posted by: Agit8dChop
The two who are facing execution are 32 and 31 I think?
Indonesian police also arrested Si Yi Chen, Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen, Myuran Sukumaran and Matthew Norman at the Melasti Hotel in Kuta. Indonesian police claim that this latter group were in possession of 334 g (11.8 oz) of heroin and bundles of plastic wrapping, Elastoplast tape, and a set of scales, indicating involvement in a plan to transport drugs to Australia.[21]
originally posted by: Kryties
Anyone calling for their execution is NOT in possession of all the facts,
Sukumaran remained mostly silent throughout proceedings and blamed amnesia for his poor recollections of events leading to his arrest.
Sukumaran met with Si Yi Chen, Martin Stephens and Lawrence at a Sydney hotel where police allege drug smuggling tools such as sealable plastic bags, medical tape, elastic waist bands and skin tight bike shorts were stuffed into the bags of Stephens and Lawrence.
During his trial, Sukumaran denied knowing Czugaj and Rush, or any knowledge of a heroin importation plan, and frequently blamed amnesia on his inability to remember events leading to his arrest.[33] Sukumaran denied signing police statements, and when asked by judges to sign his name as an example of his signature, signed his name in four different styles.[32] During his testimony, Sukumaran claimed he met Nguyen on the flight to Bali, and went out drinking with him, Chen, Norman and Chan whilst in Bali.[33]
Six years and four months ago I wouldn't think about drawing, art, working with all these people."
on 22 October 2004, Sukumaran strapped packages to the body of both Lawrence and Chan, and with Chan's girlfriend, Grace, boarded a commercial flight to Australia, successfully clearing security, customs and immigration in both Indonesia and Australia. Lawrence claimed that she and Chan were met at the airport, the packages removed, all of them taken to another house, and then Lawrence went home. A few days later Lawrence claimed that Chan handed her an envelope with A$10,000 cash.[14][18]
so Lawrence claimed that a similar trip was organised following Chan's orders, where she departed Australia on 5 December 2004. Lawrence claimed that seven others were involved, including Chan, Matthew Norman, and Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen (going by the alias of David). Lawrence claimed that she was again given cash to purchase airflights and accommodation for eight days, staying again at the Istana Rama in Kuta. However, the second delivery was aborted when heroin suppliers failed to deliver "due to a financial matter or someone knowing about the plan the shipment was cancelled".[14]
According to media reports, police records show that during his stay in Bali, Chan was in daily contact with Lawrence, until 13 April, when Chan changed his mobile phone number. On the same day, Chan instructed Lawrence and other members of the Bali Nine to change hotels. The original planned departure date of 14 April from Bali was delayed[14] as Chan suspected Australian and Indonesian police were aware of his plans.
Throughout his trial, Chan remained silent.[34] During his final plea, reading from a two-page statement, Chan commented:[34][35]
"I didn't say anything in court because if I did, I'd be lying. The truth is, I know nothing
In his final appeal, Chan was reported as stating:[13]
"I apologise to the Indonesian people, I also apologise to my family and I realise that my actions have brought shame and suffering to my whole family.
. I will have no part of this any further.
originally posted by: Kryties
I've had just about enough of this barbaric nonsense. Most of the people in this thread calling for their blood are just posturing and acting tough and blindly bleeting what their drunken mates at the pub "reckon should happen to them".
Anyone calling for their execution is NOT in possession of all the facts, some have admittedly even said they don't know much about the case yet would still see them shot. THIS IS SICK. THIS IS INDICATIVE OF SERIOUS MENTAL PROBLEMS.
Anyway, I'm out. It's clear to me you lot just want to bathe in their blood while getting your jollies out of seeing them die. I will have no part of this any further.
Enjoy howling at the moon folks.
originally posted by: weirdguy
And also if their death deters others from acting on the same thoughts of such actions, then it's a good death as it hasn't been in vain. Apart from that they really don't impress me at all.
Does the death penalty deter drug smugglers?
Indonesia, certainly, has the right to tackle the issue of drug abuse, but does the death penalty work as the attorney-general suggests and deter drug trafficking? Many argue there is little evidence of a link.
Some countries where drug trafficking carries the death penalty – such as China and Iran – still have big drug problems, says John Ryan, the CEO of drug research and advocacy organisation Pennington Institute.
"The scale of people who get caught drug trafficking and the scale of the drug market proves most people think they will get away with it and are prepared to play Russian roulette."
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop was also sceptical. "I don't believe that executing people is the answer to solving the drug problem and certainly the trafficking of drugs in and out of Indonesia," she told Sky News this week.
Jeffrey Fagan, who provided expert testimony during a constitutional challenge against the death penalty in 2007, said drug offenders are prone to "hyperdiscounting".
"Their reasoning in the face of threats of harsh punishment is skewed."
If the death penalty did deter drug traffickers, it would suggest that supply would reduce in the particular country, pushing up prices. Drug use would then also fall.
But a study of the experience of Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia between 1999 and 2005, a time when Singapore and Malaysia were executing heavily and Indonesia was not, shows that drugs were significant cheaper in Singapore and Malaysia Drug use also rose in both countries and remained more prevalent in Singapore than Indonesia.
"During this era, 73 persons were executed in Singapore [including more than half who were drug offenders], compared to two in Indonesia," Kagan said. "Yet drug trafficking was increasing and drug prices were lower in Singapore."
originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: Kryties
I care as little as they did about the lives they destroy with their heroin. ZERO!
I care about civilians caught in war zones, I care about kids dying from cancer and I care about the disabled and homeless. But don't go preaching to me how I should feel about a couple of pathetic drug smugglers who are about to meet their fate! Because I don't give a toss
originally posted by: Kryties
You claim they peddled death and destruction,
Particularly when you are ignoring CLEAR evidence that these men shouldn't be executed.
originally posted by: Kryties
Here I was thinking we gave up the barbarity of the death sentence back in the 1960's, and that Aussies as a whole opposed the death penalty.
It appears, however, that Australia still contains some people who refuse to move out of the Dark Ages.
I am ashamed I have to share this country with people of such limited, barbaric, backward and vicious views.