Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

I've found it interesting that the topic of a breakaway spacefaring civilization has been so quickly brushed aside. Let me then remind you all of some highlights of this nation's history. President Eisenhower's 1961 farewell address to the people contained a stern warning about the potential dangers of the military industrial complex that had developed over the last twenty years, mentioning the fact that this complex had been vested with powers unprecedented in our nation's history. You know, GENERAL Eisenhower. I believe it was JFK who in one of his public addresses stated that "the very idea of secrecy is repugnant in a free society". Cold war, MAD, Alternative 3, etc.
Look folks, stuff like this is real, its happening, ignore or discount it at your own peril. I won't prove it, but I don't need to. It is easily deduced. We've been digging in since the forties and we've likely never stopped. Think we wouldn't take the high ground too? X-wings or tin cans aside, we've been up there in larger numbers and capacity than the public has been informed.
The phrase "that which is not expressly forbidden is mandatory" is attributed to Merlin(someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but I suspect the US MI Complex has taken it to heart. Anything you can think of has been tried, and if it worked well then they developed it and they've got it, plus a few more you didn't even think of. A better weapon gives the warrior an advantage in the battle and a better chance of victory, and a good poker player never tips his hand(unless he does it intentionally to mess with you).
Too many people to keep it secret? How many Area 51 employees have blown the lid off of that thing? I have yet to read the expose on Edwards' restricted areas. How about a few articles opening the lid on "The Anthill"? Haven't seen those yet either.

man seems like this thread pushes every bodies buttons and for various reasons.

I agree with engineers assessment on one of the posters who seemed like they really really wanted the thread to go away.

Always enjoyed your posts juki. Seems like you are sincerely interested in researching all the angles and making some sense out of all this. I like the fact you do research about as much possible in relation to the subject and seem to keep an open mind.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
a reply to: engineercutout

OK so you like the story and dont like debunkers, got it , no need for the multi post assault (am I doing it right).

Dont get why people ought to be ashamed of themselves for not automatically believing.

You might say that entering the thread purely for a moan, post event, with clear confirmation bias, when a lot of the info has already been churned for you is just as ignominious?

Not having a go but it would be better to see some input- thoughts, links, news snippets, sources, hell - even your opinion?

Try these:

Why do you believe the story?
Which parts interest you?
Which parts would be beyond someone who has contacts/ works in defense aviation themself, is an amateur creative writer and likes playing Kerbal and studying history- especially Greek mythology in their spare time.

I have no problem with debunkers, I simply dislike multiple posts repeating the same assertion.
It's not a multi-post assault. I've finally gotten to the bottom of the thread so I am adding my input now that I've read everything that has been contributed so far. I felt that it was important to first share my honest opinions on the content up to this point, and so I have. They ought to be ashamed of themselves because they ought to know better than to repeat the same arguments over and over, as if that will make them more valid.
They can believe the story or not, it's not my place to MAKE anyone believe anything. I haven't said that I believe it. I find the entire story fascinating. I will comment more soon.
I can understand why someone might want to debunk a wild tale such as this, I just don't think the Gray Area is the place to do it. Wouldn't a thread in the Skunk Works forum be better for that? As to being skeptical, I can respect that as well. I just think it would be more appropriate to list your doubts and get on with your life instead of camping on the thread and poo-pooing anyone who comes in to speculate on said tale which was admittedly wild in the first place. Certainly questioning the veracity of the tale and its aspects should be part of the discussion; I guess I just get a little frustrated at times that I have to read through pages of repeated arguments to keep up with the discussion. I felt it was important to express said frustration. I'm not all broken up about it, just expressing an opinion. I still love you guys and stuff.

I feel ya engineer we wish this was all a little more laconic in nature. Sometimes your In Box is a little more succinct.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Do I believe this wild tale...I don't know. I think there are many elements to it that are true. I also think that some aspects are false. Awfully technical for some purely creative writing, methinks.

Airships to orbit: believe it. Makes sense

space-built Orion: believe it. Makes sense. Uncle Sam would've totally done it(off the books of course).

Breakaway secret spacefaring society: you bet. Makes sense. I'd do it, so you can bet they have.

Black Triangles as USBP's: believe it

BT's as neutral bouyancy aircraft: believe it. Makes sense, and explains the performance noted in many sightings. At least some of them fly that way.

technology suppressing PTB: easy to believe. Technology suppression goes on in every facet of industry, and TPTB do sooo love their control.

breakaways urging PTB to release said suppressed technologies: again, not hard to believe. Put yourself in the (alleged)commanding general's position, trying to balance the requirements of the mission and your duties to the US Constitution...and when the fate of the world might depend on your release or withholding of this information. Just think about that one for a minute. How many of our fates might he be holding in his hands...perhaps all our fates...

dream sucking for star mapping: seems far-fetched, but sure why not. There seems to be too much of a preponderence of evidence supporting the abduction phenomenon to dismiss it altogether. Perhaps long distance star travel is more difficult to map than Jenesiz realizes. On paper and in the field are two different things, so unless she's already been to a distant galaxy(and computed the trajectory by hand), I shall continue to doubt her assessment on that point. Another possibility is that the human mind is used for a different type of computing that our space cowboy couldn't mention in his story.

Perhaps the story and data are mostly true and the guy got permission from his superiors to disseminate the information. Perhaps the triangles, impressive though they are, are really an older platform that doesn't even NEED to remain hidden anymore. Don't expect them to barnstorm through the countryside, giving out twenty dollar rides just yet. They might not really care so much about the occasional loose lip though, if this is the case.

I have enjoyed your contributions to this thread, by the way.

a reply to: engineercutout

The thing about his posts not including the more incredible claims, was his timing and details. Whether you believe or not, the internet has many outlets for everything, except this. He was the first I saw to tackle it and hit some really specific nuances.

In this thread I reported one sighting seeing bubbles come off this thing. We thought maybe it was something with the optics. Much later I re-read the other thread and saw him say that was the corridor effect it creates. I NEVER saw anything else on the net claim such a detail. And there was more. Certain aspects in size, lights, etc... At that point, the dream part became moot to me.

As he hit off his farewell parade I had incredible sightings. When he left the sightings were significantly dialed back. I can still spot them regularly, but the straight-up, in your face, type of sightings are over.

a reply to: engineercutout

so the 'breakaways' are the new 'greys' - interesting stuff

In the spirit of speculation, how about this one:

What if hewhoshallnotbenamed's story was only one faction's story. Say dude was attatched to Lockmart, and was authorised to conduct dissemination activities. He was allowed to leak certain items, and no more. He would likely be forbidden from revealing NorGrumm's activities, or Boeing's, or the Rockefeller's private space yacht...This might explain why certain aspects of Ufology that your average bloke might consider to be iconic are missing from JDog's story. Perhaps the silvery discs, for instance, belong to another faction. The bronze discs, another; and the christmas light ones to yet another.
Maybe there are even other stories from the other factions that we could collect and put together to form a voltron-like story that explains them all!
My point being that even if (what was that dog's name again?)'s story were completely true, it would probably still be only a small piece of the larger picture of what's really going on.

a reply to: aynock

You encounter it from time to time in the ufology field, the argument that the abduction memories are screen memories implanted to hide the truth of the actual abduction experience. Then there's the military abduction phenomenon, that somewhat supports this notion as well. If the short Greys are organic machines, then they could be assisting and it wouldn't destroy aO's narrative cosmology. Besides, just because they're doing abductions, doesn't mean they're the only ones doing them.

a reply to: Arpad

I agree, Arpad, in that I was fascinated by the technical details. The theories do seem sound, and whether the rest of the tale is true or not, we still have that at the end of the day.
I'm not so sure the rest is moot, however. I guess I'm interested in a story for the story's sake. If true, of course, it's major. If not, well there may still be a good reason that he included that portion of the story.
It occurs to me that he could have left that part of the story out and helped his credibility a great deal. It seems to be the hardest part of the story to swallow. Why feed us all such a bitter pill? Perhaps its true, and we needed this medicine. 75/25? Maybe. I would think he could have thought up something a little more believable if this was to be the BS component...

The timing of the storytellers focus on black triangles might hold an answer.

Was the first mystery black triangle of 2014 ( a "count on one hand" type occurrence where a classified US military craft is allowed to be photographed in such a way) before or after his sudden interest?

a reply to: Jukiodone

The timing of the storytellers focus on black triangles might hold an answer.

possibly in this case - but also in a wider context maybe, if you consider when the bt idea first became popular, and what people were working on at the time (and the general direction they thought they would be going in the future)

I'm curious what "sightings" people are still having that they say
are the same as the "sightings" associated with this post's
precursor?

For me, this post series does indeed hit a raw nerve for many
reasons. I suppose the most personal one, is that I myself saw
a huge and amazing "black triangle" right over my house;
though it was some form of fake image the 'thing' certainly
looked enormous and intricately detailed. And oh yes, it
changed shape and 'talked to me'. (eye roll i know).

From the standpoint of this supposedly being human
technology my own military tech background certainly
won't let me believe that.

From the standpoint of how the 'thing' came to be over
my house, that could fill several posts just that.. but
let's say that 'my absurdity' had nothing to do with
this posts 'absurdity'.

It's rather like a man who raises unicorns for a living
might not be prone to believe in supposedly robotic
impersonator unicorns, no matter how detailed the
story.

I guess that's the rub for me personally, the 'button'
I probably never saw clearly back when i was posting
a fair bit.

If I have 'unicorns eating out of my hand', I'm just not
going to believe someone else's story about
'robotic fake unicorns', especially when their
story has all the elements of various "hidden hand"
type disclosures (in my opinion),

while my own 'unbelievable story' has no elements
of attention seeking behavior; I don't live in my
mother's basement and create multiple ATS
aliases, etc.

I'm explaining my own behavior here, as it was
brought into question.

I consider all my posts 'in the past' and relatively
'unwelcomed', so I'm not bringing up my thoughts
again, other than this explanation, and my desire
to know about 'continuing sightings'.

Thanks.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It's rather like a man who raises unicorns for a living might not be prone to believe in supposedly robotic impersonator unicorns, no matter how detailed the story.

If I have 'unicorns eating out of my hand', I'm just not
going to believe someone else's story about
'robotic fake unicorns', especially when their
story has all the elements of various "hidden hand"
type disclosures (in my opinion),

Unicorns are real???

Ok, seriously now, I get where you are coming from. What i dont get is this: If you are the unicorn breeder and we are the gullible. Why not show us what you know, instead of tell us 'we are listening to lies'?

Either way, if one has 'unicorns eating out of his/her hand', they are either choosing not to youtube it, or simply not allowed to.

Which is it?

a reply to: combatmaster

It's nothing mysterious.

And I've posted most of what's happened
to me in one place or another on ATS.

That said...I'm still trying to separate out
what's 'real' fron what just appears real
like most of us.

One painful lesson I've learned is that
"the other" never stops trying to turn
honest attempts at research into
something to serve it's agenda.

(maybe read GUT's control loop post
if you haven't).

Have you noticed that 'contactees'
never agree with each other?

It's the same force at work in
this thread....

Kev

a reply to: engineercutout

Good points ... fervent... and thanks for the "good host" nod.. heh... it's a tad tougher than I imagined but does clarify one's own musings, somewhat.... though I'd delete 80% of my own posts if I could... likely including this one, but the dynamic of a conversation (that is then stuck in eternity) will repeat ...and repeat... with the bit of novelty injected infrequently.

I rather hoped for more conjecture on possible timelines, details, scenarios... 'cause it's a cool story and if any part of it is 'true' than rather important... but the "attacks" were valid and ...well, necessary.

It's a claim that calls into question the trust we have in a whole section of fellow humans who are supposed to be on "our" side (I know, a loaded statement)... and it questions our collective view of reality itself... and it's a fine, fine line between true, rare knowledge and paranoid insanity.

But, perhaps now, the die-hards can parse it a bit and write out some whimsy... and get into more of the meat that's scattered through the tech threads... but that's up to the other posters.. .as always.

The hardest part of the story to swallow is the psi-based tech stuff (edit to add: forgetting the 'humans are an old star faring race...' part for a moment!) and folks like GUT and KPB have unique, interesting and educated views on that subject... which is vast and holds some surprises, I'm sure.

And IF that part of the tale is true.. .even a wispy little bit, then our personal realities and consciousness are up for grabs by the Military Industrial Complex and maybe even a group of star trecking savants... fighting for our very minds. (Add: and let's not forget the possible invisible alien intelligences that might be using us, too!)

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I cant find GUT's post.

I hear you though.... but maybe your analogy about feeding unicorns outta your own hand wasnt too accurate.

I assume that capturing one of these SPB on camera is an improbability/impossibility? hence no proof?

Are you saying this will never really be measurable or approachable by mere mortals? Is this why we are still talking about it rather than watching footage?

a reply to: Baddogma

You are a good thread host, and thanks for
the nod including to Mr. Gut. In his own
cranky way he really helped me when I
was in the beasts jaws so to speak.

A little conversation starter for you;

What if we lived in a subspace pot hole
that actually was "in the past" from
the perspective of most of 'civilized
or more privileged' reality.

What if all 'universes like ours' were
part of a vast mosaic of very similar
fractal pot hole ones....

And the more privileged beings/cultures
who had access to the other 7 dimensions
of Super string M Theory were in an
atemporal cold war, all trying to 'play
god' with all the little pothole universes
in their appatent past.

Appatently who controls the most pot
hole universes gets some kind of
reward.

So maybe "the other" is such an
attention seeking big baby...
because it's a vast food fight...

Once one of the players starts
to get a foothold (starts to make
something real or realish), then
that effort gets sabotaged by one
of the jealous competing 'gods'.

So maybe A####'s 'sponsor'
is battling with all the other
'sponsors'.

Maybe 1 pothole over the whole
silly story is truish.

But I for one, don't care for this
infantile nonsense (on "their" part).

The whole lot of them are poachers
that should be shot on sight....

If 'this nonsense' has any merit
of course.

I'd like to play nice with the other
post temporal potholies and research
this.... not make grand proclamations.

Kev

a reply to: engineercutout

Starred...

I believe you are a prime example of how a member should approach a thread like this one.
Read every single page, ask questions & keep an open mind...
Thank you for making simple what 10's of pages manage to complicate.

... and welcome to ATS

a reply to: combatmaster

This Post.

Reality is slippery my friend - sorry.

I've been interacting with "the other"
for decades longer than ATS has
existed and all this stuff is just starting
to come together a little bit for me.

Kev