Beheading Suspect Fired After Argument Over Stoning Women

a reply to: 200Plus

What actual proof do you have for that assertion, many of the apostles if not all were literate, a lack of evidence is not evidence against and of course during it's persecution Oral transmission of the gospel was the safest method.
The Sauras of the Koran were written after Muhammad died by those who Knew him when he was alive and it was not a persecuted religion because it did not teach peace but war and killing of those who stood against it, later versions of the Koran extended it's bloodthirsty nature and even changed the age of Aisha the Rose of Damascus who in the earliest and therefore most accurate versions of the Sauras was only six years of age, to make her older, in those earliest sauras before he died Muhammad expressed an interest in a baby girl who could not yet walk saying "she is beautiful I will marry her in a few years", he thankfully died two years later.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Of course an oral tradition would be safest during persecution. The styles of the Gospels lend themselves to later periods of writing 70AD onwards rather than earlier during the lives of the Apostles.

I would by no means defend the child brides of Islam, but why are you so hung up on that? Christ NEVER took a wife and that would have been even more out of place for a man in that time period than a child bride. People never get hung up on that fact.

Hate the acts of the men that commit murder, I understand that.
Hate a religion that is not so very different than yours, dumbfounds me.

Sorry to derail the thread. I won't be continuing this line of discussion.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
And how many people do you know that are going around killing women in the name of Christianity?

It happens all the time in South America and Africa. Christians still burn "witches" and "heretics" there. The congregation will place a tire filled with gasoline around a little girl's neck and set it aflame. This is after a drawn-out torture just like the Europeans used to do.

People still suffer in the name of the Christian god. Horribly. There is nothing more evil in my eyes than sadistic torture being justified under the lies of "righteousness".

You can thank the catholic church for that one. They forget people in africa take things literally sometimes. Also They preach the OT laws when it clearly states it is HEBREW LAW. Gentiles are not suppossed to follow the laws set down for the hebrews. Gentiles do not have to do the sabbath days for one.

Its funny that everyone misunderstands the OT is just a HISTORY for GENTILES,and constantly say stupid things that do not even apply to them.

The Quran is diffrent though. it is one solid book throughout and is not meant for two seperate people. ANyone today who is a gentile living under the OT needs a re education or change their designations to hebrew.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Okay, OP. Nothing you posted can readily be disputed.

What would you offer as a solution?

1) Have more Muslims speak out against ISIS, especially here in the U.S.
2) Bomb the Bejesus out of ISIS wherever they rear their ugly head. Kill the cancer.

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: Cuervo
Of course the Old Testament is a valid source, but the Old Law has been done away with, i.e. stoning, offering animal sacrifices, etc.

So it's a valid source for wisdom, but anything that makes the bible look bad has been done away with...how wonderfully convenient...

It's really a source of some great wisdom, especially the book of Proverbs, and Psalms. And if you look at prophecy throughout the Bible concerning the end times, it has not missed a beat and has been 100% accurate.

originally posted by: Cuervo

Pretty cut and dry. If somebody is professing their faith, you are to investigate, search them out, and destroy them.

I have found every example you have asked for.

100% false. Do you even read the verses and the context? Don't let hatred blind you.

Deu 13:12
If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in

Deu 13:13
that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known),

Deu 13:14
then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you,

Deu 13:15
you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,fn both its people and its livestock.

They are never commanded to go and seek out people of another faith. They are told that if they discover an ENTIRE TOWN has been led astray (not someone in the town has different beliefs, but that they actively turn others from God and an entire town follows them), they should investigate (not simply act), and then if it's true destroy that town. This only applies to those towns GIVEN to them by God. This verse again ONLY applies to Jewish territory, and is not in any way shape or form analogous to the OP incident.

You have provided nothing. Keep trying.

a reply to: SovereignEve


Ummm...I gave you a star because you pose a serious question....and that in turn deserves a serious answer and consideration....The short answer is.....human nature.

Perspective...unclouded by opinion...and based solely on observations of the human condition shows humans to be nothing greater than territorial animals....whether it be family unit or society...niches are carved out, fences are built, and lands deeded.

That which was yours becomes mine through rite of acquisition as homes are foreclosed and countries conquered.

Point of fact...all wars are wars of acquisition...resources, territory, ideology...etc ad nauseum.

I wish it were other as well....yet...I am as my genetic blueprint dictates...able to ponder the far and the why and, defend to the death any that would harm me or mine.

Not really a balancing act of nurture versus nature, rather, that these two concepts inhabit the "self", and do so hand in hand...



YouSir

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Good point Occam

"The story is told of a man who like to just open his Bible and read the first verse that came to him. The first verse he happened to turn to was Matthew 27:5 which says Judas "went and hanged himself." Since he was not sure how this verse applied to himself, he flipped to another passage and the Bible fell open to Luke 10:37: "Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." The man was quite upset and he did not know how he could ever obey that, so he decided to turn to one more place. Again he opened the Bible at random and to his horror his finger fell upon John 13:27: "Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly." "

The above may be amusing but it illustrates a point. Understanding CONTEXT, like you said Occam, is important when reading the Bible.

Many of the people on ATS do not understand the importance of Context, History, Culture, Time, Place when reading the Bible and so are confused as to its meaning.

I was one such a person, until I actually started reading the Bible, then studying the Bible. When you do this you find that The Bible is NOT like the other religious books around the world because the Bible roots its meaning in the context of the text.

Biblical texts simply cannot be lifted off the pages of the Bible without understanding what was happening, who was involved, to whom was the action directed and so forth.

So here are some text that I anyone with an open mind can see are different from what is found in any Muslim book.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 [universal context]

"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. (Ezek 33:11) " [local context with universal application, God's desire that all live]

"Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. (Micah 7:18-19) " [local context with universal application of principle, God does not stay angry for ever and he delights to show mercy"

"6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." [Romans 5] [universal exposition of the truth of the Gospel, Jesus Christ dying for those that are wicked, and that death reconciling man to God]

You will find no such verses of the universal love of God, the sacrificial love of God, the mercy of God on unbelievers and believers alike. Those who say Christianity and Islam are the same are uneducated on the truth of the matter. Period.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Seems to me like the authorities should have been alerted and escorted him straight to jail for making terrorist death threats.

ISIS is here...and that is a very scary thought.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe

Local newspaper McCurtain Gazette reports (no online edition is available):
Now WHO believes Islam is a religion of peace? Everybody is making excuses for them. Well, there's a Oklahoma woman who would like a word with you except she can't talk because HER HEAD WAS CHOPPED OFF!!
*snip*

No, her head was not "chopped off". It was hacked off with a small knife...

Not a pleasant way to die and there will be more and more of this in the west if radical Islam isn't utterly destroyed.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: tavi45

Happens all the time. Same with Islam, I've heard many Bible verses quoted that speak of violence.

here you go...
Matthew 5:38-39 - Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

There are lots of examples of violence in the Bible, especially the old testament. But let's try to do a bit better than purposefully taking passages out of context, shall we?

38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

And I mean that for both sides, not just the Christian side of the argument. If you look at specific verses in isolation, it's easy to paint whatever picture you want. If you look at the big picture, it's more difficult to paint a picture of violence. If you read the new testament and your take-away is that violence towards different beliefs is the answer, then I'll call your reading comprehension into question. Jesus taught a message of love and compassion. I'm not familiar with the Quran, but my guess is that similar logic applies with that. I honestly just think that most of you are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

There is no context that can excuse the things they were commanded to do by their god. None. They were extremists then and the Muslims who follow a similar ideology are extremists now.

NO amount of context can make them not rampaging, raping, genocidal maniacs.

I am not blinded by hatred and I love Christians. But that doesn't mean I'll allow them to tell me their core doctrine is one of peace when I have read it. Most Christians I know understand this. They know there are some inexplicable things in the OT that paint the OT god out to be a very dark and evil god. Those Christians don't try to reconcile it and many of them doubt the connection between Jesus and the OT god just as most Muslims put distance between those sorts of verses in the Koran and their current religion.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: Cuervo
Well that passage was obviously from the Old Testament, before the birth of Jesus Christ. The New Testament did away with the Old Law, which is basically the whole point of Christianity! Christ suffered for sin in our place.

Wish I had a quarter for every time I've heard that.
I'd be a rich rich man.

originally posted by: Flesh699

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: Cuervo
Well that passage was obviously from the Old Testament, before the birth of Jesus Christ. The New Testament did away with the Old Law, which is basically the whole point of Christianity! Christ suffered for sin in our place.

Wish I had a quarter for every time I've heard that.
I'd be a rich rich man.

You do know that the OT law was for abrahams people correct? Followers of the OT are not actually christians. The hebrews are who thats for. the NT is for NON HEBREWS. the bible is two seperate books in one due to the catholic church's meddling. WHY? because the NT does not allow them to hold sway over the masses as well as the OT did with the ten commandments and the old law. The law was nto thrown out though it only applies to the hebrews when the old law is concerned. Gentiles were under much less restrictions due to we are not the favorite people, we are under a new covenant after jesus. Jews/hebrews/OT followers are under th eold covenant.

originally posted by: tavi45
Um the Christian bible and Jewish Torah both contain many instances of violence against sinners and nonbelievers. So why is it only the Quran that takes the heat?

Because followers of those religions have moved on from the Iron Age and no longer perform those violent acts today. Islam is the only religion where beheadings and honor killings are still carried out as written against the infidel.

originally posted by: yuppa
Gentiles were under much less restrictions due to we are not the favorite people, we are under a new covenant after jesus. Jews/hebrews/OT followers are under th eold covenant.

God's favorite people really got screwed, huh? All those rules and barbarism...almost sounds like God's favorite people got the short end of the stick, huh?

God: "As for my favorite people, you must follow all of these very strict rules, and sacrifice animals, or you will go to hell!
As for my non-favorite people, just say you believe in this guy and you're good. "

Get ready for a very public beheading in Times Square during rush hour, for example. ISIS will make a statement loud and clear that they're here and ready to terrorize us. They won't care if they are shot and killed in the process as martyrdom is a badge of honor to them. But our government and media will portray the incident as random violence only so as not to offend a group of people in our current politically corect country. The beheading in OK last week by a radical Musim who witnesses stated that religious overtones was behind it was categorized as only 'workplace' violence. Time to head for the hills.

a reply to: tavi45

For those of you lacking in education Islam is really not much different from Christianity or Judaism. Christianity is Judaism updated for Roman culture and Islam is Christianity updated for Arab culture. If you think Islam is fundamentally incorrect or immoral so is Judaism and Christianity. They all worship the same God.

Sir,
In plain English, you don't know what you are talking about. You have less education in this matter than what you deride others not having. All three religions are as different as day is to night.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: tavi45

For those of you lacking in education Islam is really not much different from Christianity or Judaism. Christianity is Judaism updated for Roman culture and Islam is Christianity updated for Arab culture. If you think Islam is fundamentally incorrect or immoral so is Judaism and Christianity. They all worship the same God.

Sir,
In plain English, you don't know what you are talking about. You have less education in this matter than what you deride others not having. All three religions are as different as day is to night.

Well, no. They're not the same, but there are significant differences...the only way you could say they are 'as different as day is to night' is if you don't really know anything about the various world-views, and you only really know about the abrahamic faiths. If you're only using those three as a baseline, you might say something like that...but when taken along with the other global world-views and spiritual systems, there are obviously significant similarities, although they are of course not exactly the same.